JACKS BACK!!! Capulators new formulas.

  • Thread starter Capulator
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
LBC

LBC

10
3
Sorry to get off topic but what issues are you having with the Co2 generators? Are you implying they are giving off something harmful in your sealed room? How often were you purging the room to fix this and did you inspect the burning to see if it was a mechanical issue?
I can't tell you exactly what the problem was with the generators. They were working correctly, and yes I checked the burning. I believe I was fighting issues caused by the burners for well over a year until I figured it out. I was having weird issues that just didn't make sense. I felt like I was losing my mind. When I started ventilating, along with supplementing c02 I did fine when I would exchange the air every couple hours, but ultimately it just didn't seem worth the effort, and I am getting great yields without dealing with c02 at all. I did a lot of research. There are some forums where others have come to the same conclusion about propane burners. Those people, and I feel like they are generally not ideal for a completely sealed room. Theories are very small amounts ppm of some off gas, or ethylene build up. I know it works for some people, and like everything in this business there are many variables, but for me it makes more sense to ventilate or use c02 tanks. Not to mention the vpd thing doesn't really work if you bump up your temps to take advantage of the c02, and I have been seeing good results focusing on vpd.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

Staff member
Supporter
20,606
638
I can't tell you exactly what the problem was with the generators. They were working correctly, and yes I checked the burning. I believe I was fighting issues caused by the burners for well over a year until I figured it out. I was having weird issues that just didn't make sense. I felt like I was losing my mind. When I started ventilating, along with supplementing c02 I did fine when I would exchange the air every couple hours, but ultimately it just didn't seem worth the effort, and I am getting great yields without dealing with c02 at all. I did a lot of research. There are some forums where others have come to the same conclusion about propane burners. Those people, and I feel like they are generally not ideal for a completely sealed room. Theories are very small amounts ppm of some off gas, or ethylene build up. I know it works for some people, and like everything in this business there are many variables, but for me it makes more sense to ventilate or use c02 tanks. Not to mention the vpd thing doesn't really work if you bump up your temps to take advantage of the c02, and I have been seeing good results focusing on vpd.
Yep VPD is HUGE and it gets more impact full in media where growth rates are higher like coco and hydro. But absolutely right with CO2 you need to run high temls and higher KPA than what suggest for typical VPD.
 
LBC

LBC

10
3
Ok, so your coco should be buffered before you even use it, Do you know if the coco you are using is just washed or if its buffered, there is a big difference in the 2, or are you buffering it before you use it?

Here is my understanding , So coco's cation exchange complex is naturally saturated with sodium and potassium, washing can only remove little of this as the bond between the coco and elements are to strong for just water to remove, Thats where buffering comes in. saturating the CEC with Cal/mag and iron. those are the 5 elements at play sodium/potassium and cal/mag and iron.

Coco is generally a negative charge and is naturally full of sodium and potassium, which is bonded to the coco saturating the CEC, So what we want to do is remove that, we do that by using cal/mag and iron, by saturating the the coco (CEC) with this for a period of time we exchange the sodium/potassium for cal/mag and iron, because they have a stronger bond to the coco displacing the sodium and potassium to be rinsed out.

if this is done properly when you feed your plants there is very very little exchange of calcium nitrate, Magnesium and iron , because the CEC is already saturated with it, So what you feed goes to the plants not the coco.

if this is not done, when you feed your plants the calcium nitrate, Magnesium and iron is being exchanged in the CEC for sodium and potassium because it has a stronger bond to the coco, so the feed for the plants cal/mag and iron ends up going to the coco, and sodium and potassium in the coco is displaced into your feed for the plants. making a mess of things

I haven't used coco in awhile so I'm not sure what its like anymore, but when I was using it I found even the buffered coco wasn't buffered to my liking, I found it a pain in the ass washing and buffering it thats why I went to sunshine.

If want to know about mixing nutes its easy and plenty of guys on here to help, If you want PM I can give you some info, and recipes in g/l so you can mix any size batch you want. once you learn how to adjust it you can dial it in to whatever you want, but you'll also be able to make a seeding mix , veg mix , pre-flower mix and flower mix and not have to add anything extra as it will all be in it, other then microbes, and enzymes, the only other things i use is fulvic and some kelp, I play around sometime with other stuff but I really don;t thing it is needed.

hope some of this helps
Thanks for the breakdown on cec. I do know this, but it actually helped to read through the details again. The iron is something I wasn't considering, and I always get a couple plants that just bleach out and look like a severe iron def. It is a strange one tho, because everything else will look great. Those bleached out plants will sometimes come back over a few weeks if left in the garden. Maybe that is the time it takes for the coco to fully buffer? The question about coco today is an interesting one. The stuff I use (botanicare bricks) claims it's washed and buffered. I believe most decent stuff says it is. My opinion is that is isn't enough. That being said, I have experimented with rinsing/precharging and I didn't see much difference as far as how the plants reacted. Also, on the scale I am growing and with my situation, I don't see it being something that we will honestly be doing. Like you were saying, it's a huge pain in the ass, and I am not convinced it does what it is supposed to. Another reason I am considering moving to another medium. I would be interested to hear from different people about what brands might be pre buffered properly.

I am very interested in mixing from scratch. I will pm you. Thank you
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

Staff member
Supporter
20,606
638
Thanks for the breakdown on cec. I do know this, but it actually helped to read through the details again. The iron is something I wasn't considering, and I always get a couple plants that just bleach out and look like a severe iron def. It is a strange one tho, because everything else will look great. Those bleached out plants will sometimes come back over a few weeks if left in the garden. Maybe that is the time it takes for the coco to fully buffer? The question about coco today is an interesting one. The stuff I use (botanicare bricks) claims it's washed and buffered. I believe most decent stuff says it is. My opinion is that is isn't enough. That being said, I have experimented with rinsing/precharging and I didn't see much difference as far as how the plants reacted. Also, on the scale I am growing and with my situation, I don't see it being something that we will honestly be doing. Like you were saying, it's a huge pain in the ass, and I am not convinced it does what it is supposed to. Another reason I am considering moving to another medium. I would be interested to hear from different people about what brands might be pre buffered properly.

I am very interested in mixing from scratch. I will pm you. Thank you
Only on my first coco run using canna coco. It was recommended to me by some very experienced growers and some of them will not use anything else. I used the bricks but they prefer the already expanded version. I cant tell you from experience the difference but I do trust them fully. Its also certified pest free
 
LBC

LBC

10
3
Only on my first coco run using canna coco. It was recommended to me by some very experienced growers and some of them will not use anything else. I used the bricks but they prefer the already expanded version. I cant tell you from experience the difference but I do trust them fully. Its also certified pest free
I think canna would likely be the safest bet. I love the bricks for price, transport/delivery reasons. Don't really love hydrating them. I would assume quality pre expanded coco like canna does not need to be precharged? Another issue about precharging in my opinion is the fact that after you are done, the coco is obviously as saturated as it can be, and when dealing with rooted clones, or when transplanting small plants, that can be an issue. I know people say you can't overwater coco (which may be true once the root mass has filled in the container) but when dealing with rooted clones etc... I have had real issues with the bottom of the coco getting too wet (even when adding perlite). I have found the roots will stop filling in 2/3 way down. I feel like this is an understated issue with coco. I have had such better results when I water super lightly with low ec until the roots fill in. So with the bricks, I have a system of expanding them where I don't oversaturate the coco, but the coco hasn't been washed at all (which is less than ideal). It's probably time to try some quality bagged coco. That or go back to promix or something similar. I really feel like most of the frustrations I deal with have to do with the cec of coco and the quality of coco.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

Staff member
Supporter
20,606
638
I think canna would likely be the safest bet. I love the bricks for price, transport/delivery reasons. Don't really love hydrating them. I would assume quality pre expanded coco like canna does not need to be precharged? Another issue about precharging in my opinion is the fact that after you are done, the coco is obviously as saturated as it can be, and when dealing with rooted clones, or when transplanting small plants, that can be an issue. I know people say you can't overwater coco (which may be true once the root mass has filled in the container) but when dealing with rooted clones etc... I have had real issues with the bottom of the coco getting too wet (even when adding perlite). I have found the roots will stop filling in 2/3 way down. I feel like this is an understated issue with coco. I have had such better results when I water super lightly with low ec until the roots fill in. So with the bricks, I have a system of expanding them where I don't oversaturate the coco, but the coco hasn't been washed at all (which is less than ideal). It's probably time to try some quality bagged coco. That or go back to promix or something similar. I really feel like most of the frustrations I deal with have to do with the cec of coco and the quality of coco.
They expanded is good to go right from the bag. I think a large part with the drainage is the quality of the coco and how well rinsed it is as well as how small the fibers are. Definitely not all coco is created equal. If it contains a fair bit of dust and broken small files its going to be much more compact and affect drainage and air holding capacity of the media. Im all but certain this is a big reason they use canna and specifically the bags of already expanded stuff that prewashed and buffered. That and its pest free. But by using the already expanded stuff it saves a shit ton of work rinsing so its kinda cost vs gain there. I used the bricks and I did rinse mine and there was a little bit of dust but I assume if you use the bricks that's going to be any coco to an extent. I know after rinsing and rehydration after my bricks are gone I'm going to the loose hydrated bags cause well.... its not worth my time and back aches for the cost difference when comparing to just add and go.
 
LBC

LBC

10
3
They expanded is good to go right from the bag. I think a large part with the drainage is the quality of the coco and how well rinsed it is as well as how small the fibers are. Definitely not all coco is created equal. If it contains a fair bit of dust and broken small files its going to be much more compact and affect drainage and air holding capacity of the media. Im all but certain this is a big reason they use canna and specifically the bags of already expanded stuff that prewashed and buffered. That and its pest free. But by using the already expanded stuff it saves a shit ton of work rinsing so its kinda cost vs gain there. I used the bricks and I did rinse mine and there was a little bit of dust but I assume if you use the bricks that's going to be any coco to an extent. I know after rinsing and rehydration after my bricks are gone I'm going to the loose hydrated bags cause well.... its not worth my time and back aches for the cost difference when comparing to just add and go.
Yeah, I think you are right about the fines in the coco. I have had decent success with the cocogro bricks, but when I think about it, it does have a fair amount of dust. Good point. I am totally coming to the same conclusion about the bricks/vs quality bagged coco
 
jpdnkstr

jpdnkstr

90
53
Bagged Canna is the only coco coir that I will use, I tried their bricks before but out of convenience the bags are what I prefer. Years ago I did try other brands but didn't have any success I stopped using Coco for a couple years because of this and then I won a Canna contest and they sent me free samples I've been using their product ever since.
 
Spacekadet42

Spacekadet42

6
3
I’m having a hard time fully dissolving the K2SO4 (Aplha Chemicals) in water. I tried using warm, boiling water, more water but some of it won’t break down. Anyone else notice this? Any tips? Any liquid alternatives?
 
Last edited:
Skybound

Skybound

60
18
I’m having a hard time fully dissolving the K2SO4 (Aplha Chemicals) in water. I tried using warm, boiling water, more water but some of it won’t break down. Anyone else notice this? Any tips? Any liquid alternatives?

I use a surfactant (polysorbate 20) to make the water as wet as it reasonably can be and just make peace with the silts on the bottom of the jug. Before every use, I shake the jug to evenly spread out the silts in the water before taking what I need to ensure the best possible mixture of the contents, but other than that, I just accept that it will never fully dissolve. That's the only salt I have this problem with FWIW.
 
Mrdolo

Mrdolo

2
3
I hope someone can give me a hand, I’m trying to wrap my brain around concentrate solutions. Normal Jacks is 3.79\2.52\1 per gallon. If I make a 100x concentrate it would be 379g part A + 100g Epsom Salts in one container and 252g of Pat B in the other. Once that’s made up what’s the math to know what equal parts of each solution I should be taking to make a proper ppm mixture for a feeding? I did some looking and watched some videos and most people were just talking about injectors but I’m running a pretty small simple setup and mix batches as I need them.
 
Skybound

Skybound

60
18
I hope someone can give me a hand, I’m trying to wrap my brain around concentrate solutions. Normal Jacks is 3.79\2.52\1 per gallon. If I make a 100x concentrate it would be 379g part A + 100g Epsom Salts in one container and 252g of Pat B in the other. Once that’s made up what’s the math to know what equal parts of each solution I should be taking to make a proper ppm mixture for a feeding? I did some looking and watched some videos and most people were just talking about injectors but I’m running a pretty small simple setup and mix batches as I need the

Not for Jack's, but when I make my nutrient concentrates, I add 1 gram of salt for every 10ml of water my jug has which in my case is a half gallon jug (1892.7ml), so I'm adding a 189.3 grams of salt to that and I know that for every 10ml of nutrient, I am getting exactly 1 gram of salt. You could use the same strategy, though I think you might have trouble trying a 1:100 ratio. 1:10 is safer and easier, but generally, all you need to do is math out from the size of your jug/container, than it should be easier to figure out the 3 & 1 in jug A and the 2 in jug B.
 
Mrdolo

Mrdolo

2
3
Not for Jack's, but when I make my nutrient concentrates, I add 1 gram of salt for every 10ml of water my jug has which in my case is a half gallon jug (1892.7ml), so I'm adding a 189.3 grams of salt to that and I know that for every 10ml of nutrient, I am getting exactly 1 gram of salt. You could use the same strategy, though I think you might have trouble trying a 1:100 ratio. 1:10 is safer and easier, but generally, all you need to do is math out from the size of your jug/container, than it should be easier to figure out the 3 & 1 in jug A and the 2 in jug B.
ahhh i see i see haha now I get it. Thanks a ton man!
 
Top Bottom