Just wasted $2000 on LEDS (or) WHY LEDS suck

[PickleRick]

Picked up 2 kinsgrbite 240W panels, and a HLG550 recently. Thought this would be a game changer for me. as far as quality, and electrical efficiency, grams per watt, etc.
First Bloom Run complete failure so far. Was using the 2x kingsbrite mixed with a 630W CMH in my bloom room. Temps at 68-72F. Lights on Starts at 68, and few hours later is at 70-72 remainder of day. I knew it was on the lower end, and not ideal. I read that you get more dense flowers with lower temps, as well as more terpene preservation. So I though great, I can handle maybe a little slower growth, or less yields, the quality should be excellent still. I also had very very good VEG growth with them under the HLG 550, with the same temps, and though ok, flowering, they recommend lower temps than VEG, so I should be just as good if not better off, with the same temps. And exhaust fan is turned down as much as possible while keeping humidity in check.

WELL... Fast forward to DAY 30 FLOWER. Flower development extremely slow and small and few, little trichome production, no resin production. Normally by 3 weeks you can get a pretty good idea of the type of smell they profile they will have, but they literally don't smell like anything when you squeeze, it gives nothing off.
The irony is that they are "super healthy" praying leaves, no def's, and great stretch as far as hight and branch production.

Measured the Leaf Surface temp, and it is the same as Room air. So basically 0 Infra Red Radiation warming them up.


It has nothing to do with strain, as I have 4 other strains in here, that are doing same thing. And I have actually grown this strain before so knew what to expect. It is Lime Gorilla Bubble.


Yesterday I put in a space heater running at 380W and it brought temps to 76-77. But it really sucks heating all that air, and then exhausting it to outside. What a waste. I rather use the hps that puts out more infra red spectrum etc which is great for blooming.

So today I replaced the CMH 630W with my HPS1000, and temps are at 76-78F PERFECT! So an HPS is actually more effecient than CMH+Space heater.


I researched LEDS reading and watching for at least 30+ hours, not one single person said yeah they are good, and make sense financially IF, and only IF you need to get your temps down with your current lights.

So the way I see it now, I will need to use my HPS/CMH in WINTER, HPS/LED in spring/fall, CMH/LED SUMMER.

And yeah, I live in Canada, so yes it gets cold. But I heat my house to 72F as hot as I can handle it, and the bloom room is at the same level, if not less. Corner room, facing the northside.

I always thought HPS was so wasteful, now I appreciate them. Spent 3 months vegging these LGBS, now the whole crop is wasted in a matter of weeks. first 2 weeks it was hard to tell anything was wrong, then I thought ok slow starter watch them kick in, over week 3 and 4, but no. So harsh

Please someone share some resources on low temp effects on flowering. I would love to flower without my HPS and using space heaters.

 

[Staypuffed]

From what you've written, it just sounds like maybe those fixtures suck for your particular environment. For folks who run in hotter climates, portable A/C's are moved in to the rooms to drop the temps a few degrees.

I don't think this means that LED's suck though.

 

[cannabi]

yeah i wouldnt necessarily say that LEDs suck, they just didnt work for your growing environment.

 

[PickleRick]

Yeah I was just emotional and clickbaiting in order to draw in views and responses. A more scientific/academic approach that I prefer to take when emotions arent high, would give a more appropriate title of "LOW Temperature challenges of running LEDS"

 

[farmersonly]

i would react similarly im sure. Lighting is a large investment and hard to tell what would properly fit your needs before actually using something

 

[Grapefruitroop]

Man, its a learning curve with the LEDs....but when you will ride the wave you will be happy to get dank buds, incredible terpene profile with few watts...and overall efficiency in your growroom
I had problems my first runs with em... like proper distance, proper feeding and dialing the environment differently alittle bit hotter, also selectin the right strain that likes that much brightness.
keep in mind also that overlapping two footprints can create hotspots of par
For what i read around also too much light could create smaller but denser nugs so maybe you should back em a little bit

Your plants looks very healthy...did you run the same clone also with HID with better results?
goodluck!!

 

[PhatNuggz]

Yeah I was just emotional and clickbaiting in order to draw in views and responses. A more scientific/academic approach that I prefer to take when emotions arent high, would give a more appropriate title of "LOW Temperature challenges of running LEDS"

Im PickleRIck loved that episode

 

[PickleRick]

Man, its a learning curve with the LEDs....but when you will ride the wave you will be happy to get dank buds, incredible terpene profile with few watts...and overall efficiency in your growroom
I had problems my first runs with em... like proper distance, proper feeding and dialing the environment differently alittle bit hotter, also selectin the right strain that likes that much brightness.
keep in mind also that overlapping two footprints can create hotspots of par
For what i read around also too much light could create smaller but denser nugs so maybe you should back em a little bit

Your plants looks very healthy...did you run the same clone also with HID with better results?
goodluck!!

I was getting a pretty even canopy with the cmh. my lux meter showed 50K Lux all around at 18-24" Distance, which is on the lower end I would say.

It may have been an issue from lower temps, or it could also be that one of my timers was screwed up and did an extra hour of light for a few days... Il keep this thread posted as I dial them in, summer is here now and with the HPS im getting 80F.

 

[butler]

There are some key differences between HPS / CMH light sources and LEDs in general. PPFD as measured by a handheld PAR meter is not your be all, end all measurement of light intensity. LEDs (especially the unlensed quantum board style) send their photons directly down - great for stimulating PAR meters but a high PPFD does not necessarily equal high photosynthesis - especially when you take the whole plant into account. Light loving plants have evolved under a single Sun in the sky - rising in the east - setting in the west - bombarding the plant with a stream of angular light, changing throughout the day. Morning, one flank gets a photon soaking - midday the top - afternoon the other side. At any moment, though, that solar beam is comprised of the vast majority of its photons all travelling in one direction. Any little gaps in the canopy let in huge amounts of light, stimulating second and third tier flower production deep into the plant. Compare this with the top down approach of LEDs - the light is split over hundreds / thousands of diodes - the photons are traveling from disparate special origins, different angles - any tiny gap in the canopy only lets through a fraction of the light emitted from the fixture - hence all the leaf stripping malarkey. PAR light drives transpiration (as well as IR) but under LEDs it’s all focused at the top of the plant. The original poster’s low air temperatures are the nub of the issue in this case - the result is low leaf tissue temperatures and low VPD - Canadian home growers should maybe consider a close proximity DE solution.

 

[SSgrower]

Butler is very insightful as to "light patterns of the Sun. Anyone up for building a "C" downward shaped "Rack&Track" accessory for our tents to mount our Led's?

 

[TripsRabbit]

Are they clones of plants that you've grown b4 or are they from seed?

 

[Dub_City405]

LED lights dont suck. He suck doesnt know what he is doing.

 

[Ledgrownewby]

Its right to use little bit higher temps on led so?? Before this leds came i hear overall 25-26,5 grad celsius now with led many times i see its better to run 28-29 its right or im understa d some wrong ??
I use swiss made led panel with samsung/osram diode and samsung chip i think not sure
3500 kelvin 2,7 umol 660nm

 

[Dub_City405]

Using LED is about electric efficacy. Yes you can run room temp up to 82 degrees because the diodes dont put off as much heat as bulb. In the present they have come up with pretty intense LED lights that if you have a good environment youll get the best quality. Strains differ.

 

[coherent]

Looks like everything has already been said. LED lights have a place and in my opinion produce excellent results comparable to any other light type. Each type has it's own effect on your grow environment. You can't perfect a grow environment and then change lights and with all else equal expect the same or better results. In smaller tents and warm environments LED are awesome due to reduced heat issues. In northern climates or cold basements you are going to have issues that need to be addressed. In my case I have a mini split heat pump/ac in the grow room that allows very simple temp regulation. The modern mini splits are extremely efficient with high seer ratings and a fraction of the power usage compared to older units, space heaters or window AC units. . Having that option makes summer and winter temps a breeze to regulate. I couldn't imagine the hassle of trying to heat the area with space heaters or cool it with window ac units and fans.

 

[ReeferRon]

This is my first grow with LED so I wont toot their horn to much. But so far I'm extremely happy with my LED purchases.

I got a cheap 300watt QB off Amazon (BP3000) for my teens and late veg and its an awesome light. I move my clones and seedlings from a T5, and as soon as they get under it they just explode.

Before this I used a 600watt metal halide for the same application, and this light for sure competes with that at half the wattage and way less heat to deal with. All for under $250...I'd say that's a great deal so far.

For flower I replaced my 1000watt HPS with a Meijiu 650 A8 from Alibaba. And let me tell you this light is a beast!

Paid $650 shipped and so far its worth every penny. Day 22 flower and my plants LOVE this light. Much better light spread than my old 1000 watters, less heat, and so far the plants are right on schedule.

Just over 3 weeks and they getting frosty and chunky just as if they were under the HPS. Running 350 watts less. No air conditioner and less exhaust needed. Way cool in my opinion. Like I said so far I am sold and happy I upgraded... I haven't harvested yet and don't know what the future holds as far as potency and yield, but I'm optimistic and believe I made the right choice.

Made of Honor by Twenty20 Medicino, day 22 flower.

 

[DankNugz420]

Lookin good bud! The prices on some lights are nuts!

 

[ReeferRon]

Lookin good bud! The prices on some lights are nuts!

Thanks man.. yeah I did a bunch of research before I took the plunge and switched over to LED. After much thought I went with the "China lights" because they are so affordable. I'm from Detroit and American tried and true, but I cant pass up a good deal.

A comparable light made here in the states, or sold here in the states would have been double. I have another Meijiu light on order now for the other half of my flower area. Although they are a Chinese company and you have to go through Alibaba to deal with them, they have been great so far as customer service is concerned. I have no problem ordering from them again. (Thank you China!)

 

[DankNugz420]

Nice man I grew up in Benton harbor, had relatives in Plymouth for a while till they moved down south. I actually bought my 96 caprice in Detroit a few years back

 

[PickleRick]

UPDATE

Had good results with last run with temps of 70-72F during flower. Sure yield may have been higher with higher temps, I got 1 lbs per 480W LED including popcorn nugs. ran 2 lights so 2 lbs. But quality and density was good and they did mature nicely at 9 weeks on the dot.

Now we are in winter here and to get the same 70-72F I need to run those 2 LEDS and 1000W HPS. Another option is to have a dehuey and not exhaust as much air and that will produce some heat. Would work indoors in winter when C02 is higher indoors, I get around 1000ppm and thats with exhausting....


also not much of a difference between the plants under the 1000HPS and the ones under LEDS, maybe 10% bigger and taller, and yield, but def not way nicer or anything compared to the led ones.