Justiceman's Root Health Tutorial

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justiceman

justiceman

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Sorry about the late reply everyone I have been super busy! :smoking:

Hi @justiceman , thanks for all the info. If i may, i have two questions:

1. Do you rinse and buffer your coco? Should that be part of a "Do"?

2. you mention not to use organic nutes in coco (if i understand correctly). But I haven't managed to find any of the recognized hydro nutes mentioned in the forums (ok... i have, but they are at least 5 times the price than in the US... that i can't and won't pay). I found a nursery that specializes in organics that sells a hydro nute but they were not able to tell me if it was mineral or organic or what where the sources. The bottles do have printed on them the ppms of the elements it's supposed to contain (https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...ust-add-salts-to-improve.101140/#post-2205677). What would you recommend? I was planning on using them but how can i tell if they are organic or not? Any tips?

Thanks in advance!
No problem at all!

1. I don't usually rinse and buffer my coco because I buy it pre-washed. It really depends on the brand, but if you want to make sure you can always run some r/o water through a bit of the coco in question and check to see how high the TDS is of the exit liquid. Shouldn't be a huge number.

2. Yes i caution against using organic nutrients in pure coco. It's not impossible but a very touchy style of growing IMO. Usually organic nutrients don't have elements posted in ppm's so based off that I would assume the nutrients you have are mineral based. Under the guaranteed analysis on the bottle it should have a list of substances that says "derived from". Usually all of those ingredients are minerals when it comes to hydro.

Thanks for the reply, from my estimation the clones were indeed infected with spidermites when i bought them. Is it possible that mites live inside the bags of coco? I noticed the webbing about a week later, and started with azamax. For a few weeks they were dead, but they spawned again. From your experience is it wise to cut my losses now and start with a new batch of clones, not to risk going into bloom and burning energy so that the mites will comeback and destroy my crop. Or is azamax is effective enough to do the job? What would you do? Thanks.
It's possible the mites came in coco, but usually it's thrips, or fungus gnats that can come with it. The clones are still very small. Whether you want to try and save them or not depends on how much time you can afford to burn. If you can wait for recovery then go with what enforcer said and do a full azamax dip on all of them while THOROUGHLY cleaning the room. Then there should be a quarantine period where you just wait and see if they come back. If the clones are heavily damaged by the mites at this point then it might be better to start over as they could take quite some time to bounce back.

Me personally with clones at that age I would probably start over out of fear of the mites coming back later on. It can be quite devastating to say the least. It all depends on how confident you are with the cleaning, and plant treatment.
 
elcolombiano

elcolombiano

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thanks for the reply @justiceman . a couple more questions:
1. how do you geminate?
2. once germinated, do you pass the seed to pure coco? or (3.) would a mix of peat+coco work well for a week or so while it sprouts and then to pass to pure coco? My fear is if i pass to pure coco all watering would need feeding right? a recently germinated seed might find that too hot for her right? so i was thinking the peat+coco mix so i can just water plain water while it forms it's leaves, then pass to coco and feed.

I could swear you mentioned what you do somewhere but can't find the post. thanks!
 
justiceman

justiceman

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thanks for the reply @justiceman . a couple more questions:
1. how do you geminate?
2. once germinated, do you pass the seed to pure coco? or (3.) would a mix of peat+coco work well for a week or so while it sprouts and then to pass to pure coco? My fear is if i pass to pure coco all watering would need feeding right? a recently germinated seed might find that too hot for her right? so i was thinking the peat+coco mix so i can just water plain water while it forms it's leaves, then pass to coco and feed.

I could swear you mentioned what you do somewhere but can't find the post. thanks!
1. I like to take a small tupperware container and place a moist(not soaking wet) paper towel inside. I then place the seeds and fold an end of the towel over them so they are tucked in between 2 sides of the paper towel. I close the container and check back in 24-48 and most of the time they have germinated by then.
2. I like to pass my seeds on to pure coco because I don't want to have to many different mediums to buy. It's true you must feed a small amount of food to keep the cations balanced and it's not hard to feed too strong. I try to start them around 0.2-0.4EC and go from there. Probably one of the most sensitive aspects of starting seeds in coco but I suppose seedlings in general are just that way. If you want to be safe you can start them in a premixed peat mix or peat/coco mix and move them to pure coco later on. It certainly wont hurt you going with that method.
 
justiceman

justiceman

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Newbie here to coco(300+ ladies in soil experience).. I'm almost overwhelmed with info there is so much awesomeness here!
When you say feed, I assume you mean with nutes? No "just water" in between?
Many thanks
Thanks for stopping in :smoking: Yes when I say feed I mean with nutes. Never "just water" in between when it comes to pure coco.
 
dextr0

dextr0

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Hey Justice long time no see man. Glad to see your still at it and sharing the knowledge. Just finished your thread interesting stuff. I was honestly always scared to run coco because of the cal/mag problems I would always see. Is that what watering properly has fixed?
Also what nutrients are you running?
Thanks.
Respects,
Dex
 
justiceman

justiceman

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Hey Justice long time no see man. Glad to see your still at it and sharing the knowledge. Just finished your thread interesting stuff. I was honestly always scared to run coco because of the cal/mag problems I would always see. Is that what watering properly has fixed?
Also what nutrients are you running?
Thanks.
Respects,
Dex
Yo good to see you as well! I have not been as active lately, but I'll always stop in here from time to time. Next time I start up a new run I will definitely post it. Yes feeding properly helps greatly with curbing the classic cal/mag issue. That would include consistent feed times, feed strength, pH management, and a balanced nutrient. I like to use Hydroponics Research Veg+Bloom RO formula. It's a simple 1 part powder that works well for me, but there are many good choices out there. I'd like to think the simpler the nutrient the better. I'm not a fan of 10 different bottles to complete a nutrient line up.
 
dextr0

dextr0

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Same man, I actually haven’t been growing in a long time. But I’m always helping ppl and linking them to threads here. Lately I’ve just got the itch to grow again.
Think imma try some new things and this may very well be one. If nothing else I can direct people to these pages to check it out and get some know how , like I said I’m always helping someone.

I love simplicity and agree that the less nutrients the less chance of messing up. What I’m understanding is your using the soiless medium just as you would a hydroponic set up...lol since that’s what’s it is.

Gonna reread it when have more time and make sure I’m getting it all right.
 
elcolombiano

elcolombiano

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Yo good to see you as well! I have not been as active lately, but I'll always stop in here from time to time. Next time I start up a new run I will definitely post it. Yes feeding properly helps greatly with curbing the classic cal/mag issue. That would include consistent feed times, feed strength, pH management, and a balanced nutrient. I like to use Hydroponics Research Veg+Bloom RO formula. It's a simple 1 part powder that works well for me, but there are many good choices out there. I'd like to think the simpler the nutrient the better. I'm not a fan of 10 different bottles to complete a nutrient line up.

my friend took over my grow while i fix some issues here at home... but he is very happy following your tips... so thanks for stopping by from time to time! we used to use perlite and vermiculite but coco has my friend so happy now i don't think we will turn back. still trying to dial in the EC for sprouts!
again thanks @justiceman for taking the time to share your experience.
 
justiceman

justiceman

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What I’m understanding is your using the soiless medium just as you would a hydroponic set up...lol since that’s what’s it is.
:cool: Yes! Once you start thinking about it like that things make a lot more sense.

my friend took over my grow while i fix some issues here at home... but he is very happy following your tips... so thanks for stopping by from time to time! we used to use perlite and vermiculite but coco has my friend so happy now i don't think we will turn back. still trying to dial in the EC for sprouts!
again thanks @justiceman for taking the time to share your experience.
I am glad to hear the tips are working well for you and your friend! That's the reason I wrote this thread :)
 
McNaughty

McNaughty

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@justiceman i just want to thank you and everyone else here at the farm who share their knowledge with us peasants
Without you lot i wouldn't be able to produce healthy mother's with roots like this.

If even half these clones make it, I'll be pumped (going to get zip bags tomorrow to put over to the solo cups for humidity)

Cheers

@logic, you rip out all the geo data from photos right? oh well, too late lol
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Mr Bee

Mr Bee

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If I had read even the first 3/4 comments of this thread before trying to run coco I woulda saved myself a lot of trouble and fucked up plants.it didn't exist at that time though so I had to learn the hard way.
Great thread @justiceman .
 
elcolombiano

elcolombiano

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Thank you for the props @McNaughty and @Mr Bee! I am very happy that this thread has been well received and his helping to smooth out coco grows. May your flowers be large and sticky :smoking:

any tips for growing autos in coco??
 
justiceman

justiceman

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any tips for growing autos in coco??
I've only done a couple auto's but they were both in coco, and one of them was in a solo cup for fun. Here's a link to the thread if you'd like to check it out

Learning How To Think Different


I think one of the most important things I learned about them was they needed a lower feed strength compared to their photoperiod counterparts. Here's an LSD-25 I did in a solo cup.

img_0916-jpg.700568
 
3 balls

3 balls

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Good roots in coco come with sound watering practices period!!!!!!!! I prefer 100% coco. No need to mix anything like perlite into it. I prefer simple hydroponic nutrients that are easy to use. No additives or 15 different bottles to measure. That kind of stuff only invites problems in my experience so far.


Examples of simple easy to use hydroponic nutrients:
  1. General Hydroponics Micro and Bloom(6/9 h3ad recipe)
  2. General Hydroponics Maxibloom(1 part powder)
  3. Hydroponic Research Veg+Bloom(1 part powder and my absolute favorite).

Do's:
  • Feed often(At least once a day)
  • Check pH
  • Use a balanced quality base hydroponic nutrient(no organics this is hydro not soil)
Don'ts:
  • DO NOT LET YOUR COCO DRY OUT
  • Do not feed plain water
  • Do not add a plethora of additives(they are mostly snake oil anyway so save your $)

Never let your coco dry out. Did I say that already? I water at least once a day(except for seedlings at the very beginning). The more I water the better growth and the more roots I get because of the fresh oxygen being pulled into the medium on a regular basis.

Dry coco kills roots, and so does wet coco that has stayed wet for too long without irrigation. This is because it has not been fed again to renew the oxygen levels thus causing the roots to suffocate. You just can't "over water" coco. You can only deprive the roots of oxygen. The longer one waits to water in coco the longer the roots are deprived of oxygen.

In other words. Feed often and you will get thick and healthy roots. This is a very hard concept for previous soil growers to grasp. In soil you need wet dry cycles because soil holds so much water and so little oxygen at max saturation. Coco is an entirely different beast so think of it as such.

I truly believe the KEY is FREQUENT IRRIGATION

If you follow these simple guidelines your roots will look better and your nutrient uptake will improve so stop letting your coco dry out. Keeping your coco wet is also a great way to prevent salt build up and salt concentration which in turn obviously leads to healthy roots as well.


Here are some examples of plants that have gotten 1-2 feeds a day. Nothing but Veg+Bloom and occasionally +Life(microbial innoculant). That's it nothing else.

View attachment 670721 View attachment 670722 View attachment 670723 View attachment 670724 View attachment 670725 View attachment 670726 View attachment 670727
Very nice thread, I'm surprised I've only just now come across it. I'm curious about a few things that I hope you can help me understand. Thanks for your time!
Me:
Switched from soil to coco almost 2 years ago (Tupur) I also use veg+bloom.

Thoughts/Questions

1. A lot of people preach feeding 4+ times a day, imo, they should be in a bigger pot? (I understand and appreciate that a 5gal pot with a 3 week veg is silly but it's equally silly to flower in a solo cup with the exception of small tent grows, auto flowers etc.).

2. You hit the nail on the head when you talk about soil growers not grasping proper coco technique. I still cant bring myself to feed a root riot cube transplanted into a solo cup for 5-7 days, I just cant understand why the roots would do any work. I don't let them get close to drying out. Would this be a middle ground/initial growth exception or would you recommend once a day at this point as well?

3. Watering to run off. I want roots like yours so I'm trying to water once a day in mid/late veg and flower (even if their already soaking wet. But... I've always practiced a good 15%+ run off. What I'm wondering is if at this frequency of watering do I really need it? I absolutely see it being necessary for a few+ days whenever I up my PPM/EC, but after that I'm thinking the week or two of identical ppm feeding every day, I'm just wasting product and time wet vacuuming?

Thanks again, I appreciate your time and this thread!
 
justiceman

justiceman

2,718
263
Very nice thread, I'm surprised I've only just now come across it. I'm curious about a few things that I hope you can help me understand. Thanks for your time!
Me:
Switched from soil to coco almost 2 years ago (Tupur) I also use veg+bloom.

Thoughts/Questions

1. A lot of people preach feeding 4+ times a day, imo, they should be in a bigger pot? (I understand and appreciate that a 5gal pot with a 3 week veg is silly but it's equally silly to flower in a solo cup with the exception of small tent grows, auto flowers etc.).

2. You hit the nail on the head when you talk about soil growers not grasping proper coco technique. I still cant bring myself to feed a root riot cube transplanted into a solo cup for 5-7 days, I just cant understand why the roots would do any work. I don't let them get close to drying out. Would this be a middle ground/initial growth exception or would you recommend once a day at this point as well?

3. Watering to run off. I want roots like yours so I'm trying to water once a day in mid/late veg and flower (even if their already soaking wet. But... I've always practiced a good 15%+ run off. What I'm wondering is if at this frequency of watering do I really need it? I absolutely see it being necessary for a few+ days whenever I up my PPM/EC, but after that I'm thinking the week or two of identical ppm feeding every day, I'm just wasting product and time wet vacuuming?

Thanks again, I appreciate your time and this thread!

Those are some good questions! This thread is meant just to just explain the basics of coco growing. Question 1 and 2 are more advanced and there is not one perfect answer but I'll do my best to try and explain.

1. Feeding frequency and container size are so largely dependent on environment, light quality, and desired height/shape of the plant that it is hard to really pinpoint what is "perfect" for the individual. That being said I see what you mean. I'm sure there is a point at which feeding past a certain amount of times a day has no additional benefit and yes if the container size is small enough like a solo cup then a yield limit will exist. On the flipside while an oversized container has more potential there is a time and space limit for most indoor grows. They also require more feed to saturate and if a plant is undersized then it is harder to balance an acceptable feed strength without causing an imbalance in the medium because the roots only touch so much surface area.

Coco holds more air than most soil mixes and because we use hydroponic nutrients with it they are readily available to the roots. Because of those two points less coco is likely needed to produce a comparable yield to soil. A benefit of using less medium is less space taken up, less work in moving the stuff, and affordability. Those that are feeding 4 times a day might not necessarily have a container that is too small. They may just have a killer setup/environment and are looking to yield huge. Those kinds of set ups are typically automated with a drip or feed system of some sort and a timer and that's when you really get a powerful yield in coco.

2. It's not about the roots sucking up food at this point in a plants life. It's more about just keeping the coco balanced and ready for the rootmass, and that's why the feed strength doesn't need to be very high at all in the beginning. Even .2EC(100ppm) is fine. Is it absolutely 100% necessary for success? Nope but what it does do is prevent any premature issues from happening. You don't really want to wait to see if a deficiency will arise in a seedling/young plant if you can help it.

3. This is a hard question to answer. It's more of a feel you get after a while, but you are right on the right track in wondering how much runoff you should really be getting. It's all about efficiency so we are always trying to figure out if we are wasting fertilizer or not. It all comes down to feed strength and environment. There are some that don'e even feed to runoff because they have the feed strength perfectly dialed in where as others water to runoff every time just to be safe. In order to figure out where you are at you just have to figure it out in time with your set up. But in general those who do not feed to runoff generally feed lower strength overall.

Hope that helps and thank's for stopping in :smoking:
 
KVO

KVO

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Holy Guacamole this thread is amazing! I've been stalking for a while and finally created an account to ask for advice.
I'm running almost the same setup, I didn't know to line the bottom of the pots with anything so I'm all 80/20 coco/perlite to the bottom.
I'm using the head formula with the gh liquids and am 2 weeks into flower.
1. When you up the ppm, aren't you changing the formula then? And what would you suggest upping liquid wise as I don't use the powder?
2. Are you still in favor of the +life and the booster(can't remember the name you used in your journal)?
Many MANY thanks for all this info, people like you make the internet worth it!
 
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