Kgbgrowers No Till Living Organic Soil Perpetual Grow

[KGB Grower]

yes sir I can see from the gorgeous pics bro.

This end in Canna, I find 3 apps of bio veg tea at a low rate is keeping my microbes pumped up, without it I was getting an Fe issue on the second run. I don't think the bio terra was great to begin with. it took 2 brews to even have the right life to bother testing. I had to get rid of the fungus gnats that came with the bag, then establish the media before first pot up. I don't blame Canna, may be it was stored bad post bagging?

Anyway, its not a patch on what we produce in house that's for sure, even our own coco peat mix has more to it and is better protected by the inclusion of functional microbes without fungus gnats anyway :) That's the problem tho, shipping bag fresh soil, with active young microbes back to back is a ball ache or I might try to fix the chaff on the shelves myself LOL.
Still if I cant grow it in the stuff everyone can access, then we cant grow enough for the demands period.
It rots down well, but just lacks a certain fractal or other out of the bag. Save praying to it, you will need to add microbes, but once you do, it is a good shout anyway but perhaps not the best base for this style. May be you have thoughts?
I tried the cover crop, but got an N issue. I switched the system to bottom feed and this problem seemed to improve, but I think the CEC was too low to stomach the extra demand while the tares sprouted, may be you have some idea?
The no till with mulched feed top fed is winning on output, but I would like to get the cover sorted. I used what we had to hand as well. But the pic gives me an idea to swap out thanks.

Peace and keep teaching mate, you know I got to catch you :)

Ok, so lets talk gnats first. You and I both know that those little annoying bastards are going to show up no matter what. This is organics and I have learned that maintaining a small population is about the best we can do. I have learned the hard way that not sticking to an IPM routine will allow the gnats to get out of control pretty quickly. So, to manage the gnats I use a Neem/Kelp tea once a month and a weekly foliar spray consisting of neem oil, silica, aloe vera and an essential oil blend that I get from BAS too. I am switching to karanja though instead of the neem as it emulsifies better for an even coating of the plants. The gnats I believe mostly come in when I top dress between plantings with vermicompost.

As for developing a healthy microbial population in store bought bag soil, I feel you are going to have do that with them all. Well, that is changing these days as I know there are a few people out there now building and selling their own living organic soil. I am very untrusting by nature these days though and prefer mixing my own when I need fresh soil for expanding. BAS does sell a living soil I purchase but I have all the amendments on hand it it is a cost issue for me. From experience now, I always recommend adding AACTs to new soil to really get the beneficial populations up from the beginning along with adding a healthy population of worms from the start too. I'm talking a simple Tea too, worm castings and molasses aerated for 48 hours. If you find that this isn't quite enough, I have another super tea that I use when plants start to fade to early with the basic AACT.

As for the Cation exchange, I am still studying on how the positive and negative ions and that whole process works. I know of the importance and the basics but I am still learning as well and I learn new stuff after every cycle.

I feel as if I am answering this post of yours for others and not necessarily for you. I know you have way more knowledge of organics and soil biology than me. Thanks for contributing though because it helps me to focus.

 

[leadsled]

Right on. good to see folks growing with living organic soil.

Fungus gnats will not be present in a healthy balanced soil. You do not have the proper balance in the soil. Be it biology texture and or the balance of chemistry.

If the soil is healthy and balanced you will not have any fungus gnats.
@Ecompost if you have excess P and or a high ph of your soil can cause a zinc deficiency.

I see plants with yellow leaves.

The plants at end of flower or you having uptake problems?

How many days into flower are they?

You made the statement you are "feeding your plants" what are you feeding them?

 

[KGB Grower]

Right on. good to see folks growing with living organic soil.

Fungus gnats will not be present in a healthy balanced soil. You do not have the proper balance in the soil. Be it biology texture and or the balance of chemistry.

If the soil is healthy and balanced you will not have any fungus gnats.
@Ecompost if you have excess P and or a high ph of your soil can cause a zinc deficiency.

I see plants with yellow leaves.

The plants at end of flower or you having uptake problems?

How many days into flower are they?

You made the statement you are "feeding your plants" what are you feeding them?

Not sure if gnats will not be present in healthy soil but I will admit to the gnat problem I had being my own fault and the soil was struggling for a bit due to personal issues and me not feeding the soil properly. So, you may be correct but I know many people that grow in living soil that deal with the occasional gnat due to the top dressing of vermicompost. I don't believe my soil is completely healthy just yet but it is about there. I damn near killed the soil life by starving it for a few months while I was dealing with personal issues.

As for the yellow leaves, Yes they are about to finish although they started fading earlier than I would have expected. That may just be the strain as I am still pheno selecting and the first run was in containers with sub par soil life. Anyway, I move a new group into flower about every 2 weeks so that is why you see yellowing on some plants and not others. The yellowing plants are starting week 8 of flower.

If I said I feed the plants, I misspoke. I feed the soil things like coco water, aloe vera, powdered malted barley, Humic and fulvic acid, silica and plain aerated water at times.

 

[sixstring]

@leadsled is like a living book,im def taking notes from you 2 :)

 

[leadsled]

Not sure if gnats will not be present in healthy soil but I will admit to the gnat problem I had being my own fault and the soil was struggling for a bit due to personal issues and me not feeding the soil properly. So, you may be correct but I know many people that grow in living soil that deal with the occasional gnat due to the top dressing of vermicompost. I don't believe my soil is completely healthy just yet but it is about there. I damn near killed the soil life by starving it for a few months while I was dealing with personal issues.

As for the yellow leaves, Yes they are about to finish although they started fading earlier than I would have expected. That may just be the strain as I am still pheno selecting and the first run was in containers with sub par soil life. Anyway, I move a new group into flower about every 2 weeks so that is why you see yellowing on some plants and not others. The yellowing plants are starting week 8 of flower.

If I said I feed the plants, I misspoke. I feed the soil things like coco water, aloe vera, powdered malted barley, Humic and fulvic acid, silica and plain aerated water at times.

I am absolutely positive the gnats will not be present in a healthy balanced soil. Balanced in both chemical and biological properties.

I know from experience. The fungus gnats disappeared once I got the soil cations more in balance.

You have a soil test to prove this?
or
share the microbiology counts?

I read growers making assumptions and do not have any facts to back it up.

Do you own a microscope and monitor the biology in the soil?
How can you say the soil is healthy?
Do you have some proof to this or just a feeling you have????

Thanks for sharing more details.

 

[Seamaiden]

@KGB Grower one of my FAVORITE covers is fenugreek. I do eat the microgreens as well. It stays very nice and compact, a lot like clover, but if you let it go to seed you also get the spice. :)

@leadsled, thank you for sharing this information. It's information I could better put to use as well.

@leadsled is like a living book,im def taking notes from you 2 :)

Right?

 

[leadsled]

@leadsled is like a living book,im def taking notes from you 2 :)

I am into education and knowledge transfer. I read books and get facts from non cannabis sources.
It is not impossible to build a soil with proper balance.

It is an injustice for growers to not get all the facts.
Fungus gnats are NOT acceptable. They are vectors of pathogens and a sign that the soil is not healthy or balanced.

This grower is stating the soil is healthy and there is obvious signs that is not true. Not many people even own a microscope and or know how to use it.

How do people get the impression that microbiology in soil just all of sudden thrives overnight???
The proper balance in the soil is the home that is ideal for the microbiology.
Some of these statements are not entirely correct.

Most organic growers miss the boat on soil building, mineral nutrients, organic matter management, nitrogen
fixation, understanding the weed community ....

Does a huge injustice to those that want to grow organic. get results, yields, and pest and disease free crops.

#1 myth is that organic does not yield.

 

[leadsled]

Top dressing a good vermicompost should the introduce beneficial nematodes into the soil. They will help out with the fungus gnats. You could add beneficial nematodes and hypoasis miles if you want to wipe them out immediatly.

Will also help your soil better cycle nutrients and WILL get rid of the fungus gnats.

 

[KGB Grower]

I am absolutely positive the gnats will not be present in a healthy balanced soil. Balanced in both chemical and biological properties.

I know from experience. The fungus gnats disappeared once I got the soil cations more in balance.

You have a soil test to prove this?
or
share the microbiology counts?

I read growers making assumptions and do not have any facts to back it up.

Do you own a microscope and monitor the biology in the soil?
How can you say the soil is healthy?
Do you have some proof to this or just a feeling you have????

Thanks for sharing more details.

No, I am super new at this and still learning but @mountainorganics is where I was told you may see the occasional gnat. I see them in my worm bin though and can only assume that some come in with the compost I get, as I currently purchase mine but that will end once I build some composting piles or bins.

As I stated earlier, soil life was pretty bad as of 6 weeks ago and I am sure soil life may be slightly out of balance still but on it's way back. I don't own a microscope and have not tested the soil. I believe the soil to be somewhat healthy just by how the plants are now vs what they were looking like 8 to 10 weeks ago. I am currently reading on testing and would like to be able to test my own soil but currently I'm unable. I am going to look at getting my soil tested in the near future but that's going to have to wait for a few weeks at least. I thank you for contributing here for sure as it sounds like you can help me and others. I dove in to No Till just based on what I felt. I was looking for a system that would allow me to reuse soil and at a much lower cost for items to have to purchase. After following a few LOS guys I found BAS and followed the system as laid out there and was blown away. Then I stuck my head in my ass for a few months but have since removed it from there, lol. Anyway, I am back to the schedule I was using with a few new additions and everything is looking much happier.

 

[KaiserSoze]

I'm also a new organic grower struggling to control my fungus gnat population so I'm looking forward to this thread! There's a lot of years of experience on this board!

 

[fishwhistle]

Since it seems everyone here likes to read ill make a suggestion that you get a subscription to this magazine,its not canna specific but the knowledge you gain is definitely transferable and priceless.
http://www.acresusa.com/magazine

 

[Reeferkief]

Oi nice thread KGB!

#1 myth is that organic does not yield.

Truuu finally someone else here to bust bubbles!

Something a lot of growers look over is the potential of quality castings, it's literally the foundation for living organic soil! Producing superior quality castings can save you in so many ways, castings can be chalked full of beneficials organisms, enzymes, and other things not completely digested by the worms it's quite amazing they can function as a major part of pest management if produced correctly.

Easy way to see if you have a active healthy soil system is worm counts(worms, Castings : Other), beneficial insect sightings (Hypoasis Mites Etc.), and hyphae/mycelium spotting. At least from a average Joe's point of view these are things I look for when wondering if my soil life is active enough from the human's point of view(Other then praying plants) and without any real data to go off of.

You can always give a nice life boost with a protozoa tea, it's quite the life/nutrient accelerator!

My soil is protected by the FBI is yours?
Fungus Bacteria Invertebrates

 

[Bulldog11]

I am a big fan of coots mix, and build-a-soil. You sound like you have a solid foundation for organics. If you want to reach the next level, listen to leadsled. He is mentoring me in a few ways, and has pointed me in the right direction many times. He truly understands what he reads, and can teach others. Rare in a cannabis farmer.

Tagged for this grow for sure.

 

[KaiserSoze]

Hey

Top dressing a good vermicompost should the introduce beneficial nematodes into the soil. They will help out with the fungus gnats. You could add beneficial nematodes and hypoasis miles if you want to wipe them out immediatly.

Will also help your soil better cycle nutrients and WILL get rid of the fungus gnats.

Hey @leadsled, I don't have my kashi bin and worm farm up and running yet so I'm wondering whether nematodes would survive in a bag of store bought vermicompost. In that case, could I add some heterorhabditis bacteriophora and steinernema feltiae to balance out the soil? I've read the hb is a mobile form of nematode and sf is the opportunistic variety that don't move much so I'm thinking a combination would be best since fungus gnats are mobile. Do you have experience with either of these?

 

[leadsled]

Hey


Hey @leadsled, I don't have my kashi bin and worm farm up and running yet so I'm wondering whether nematodes would survive in a bag of store bought vermicompost. In that case, could I add some heterorhabditis bacteriophora and steinernema feltiae to balance out the soil? I've read the hb is a mobile form of nematode and sf is the opportunistic variety that don't move much so I'm thinking a combination would be best since fungus gnats are mobile. Do you have experience with either of these?

Yes.
I have experience with Steinernema feltiae and hypoaspis miles will wipe them out with a quickness. The hypoaspis are fast. Have recommended this to convention growers and also works excellent for them.

Cost about 100 bucks delivered for 50 million nemasys an 25k hypoaspis.

Gnatrol at 1tbsp per gallon 1x per week for 3 weeks has also worked well.
What is more cost effective, all depends on the size of garden and containers.
$45.00 gets you 500 grams of gnatrol via amazon.

Sticky traps to catch the fliers. Would use at least one of those as bare minumum.

All depends on your budget and time you have to spend in the grow. Here are additional ways to wipe out adults.

Insecticide soap and pyrethium also helps to wipe out adults. (flys)

foliar spray of Conserve SC. 1/2 tsp per gallon helps control the adult fungus gnats.

I can get rid of them with solely hypoasis and nematodes.

If you use pyrethium, conserve or soap, Do that first. Order the beneficials, then apply them after.

Do not want to harm the hypoaspis so do one or the other or time it right.

The life cycle of fungus gnats.

 

[leadsled]

No, I am super new at this and still learning but @mountainorganics is where I was told you may see the occasional gnat. I see them in my worm bin though and can only assume that some come in with the compost I get, as I currently purchase mine but that will end once I build some composting piles or bins.

As I stated earlier, soil life was pretty bad as of 6 weeks ago and I am sure soil life may be slightly out of balance still but on it's way back. I don't own a microscope and have not tested the soil. I believe the soil to be somewhat healthy just by how the plants are now vs what they were looking like 8 to 10 weeks ago. I am currently reading on testing and would like to be able to test my own soil but currently I'm unable. I am going to look at getting my soil tested in the near future but that's going to have to wait for a few weeks at least. I thank you for contributing here for sure as it sounds like you can help me and others. I dove in to No Till just based on what I felt. I was looking for a system that would allow me to reuse soil and at a much lower cost for items to have to purchase. After following a few LOS guys I found BAS and followed the system as laid out there and was blown away. Then I stuck my head in my ass for a few months but have since removed it from there, lol. Anyway, I am back to the schedule I was using with a few new additions and everything is looking much happier.

Right on thanks for sharing!! I respect you honesty. Big props to you.
I am sharing because I wish someone shared those things with me when I made the switch to "organics". Stoked that you are sharing and the topic is being discussed in more detail than the IG ebonics and hashtags.

IME, All the cognitive dissonance from organic growers is a big turnoff for those that want to switch. Respect.

 

[leadsled]

Hey


Hey @leadsled, I don't have my kashi bin and worm farm up and running yet so I'm wondering whether nematodes would survive in a bag of store bought vermicompost. In that case, could I add some heterorhabditis bacteriophora and steinernema feltiae to balance out the soil? I've read the hb is a mobile form of nematode and sf is the opportunistic variety that don't move much so I'm thinking a combination would be best since fungus gnats are mobile. Do you have experience with either of these?

missed the question about the bagged ewc. I have seen the nematodes survive in a bagged EWC but there was not alot of them and the bag was fresh.

 

[shemshemet]

Yes.
I have experience with Steinernema feltiae and hypoaspis miles will wipe them out with a quickness. The hypoaspis are fast. Have recommended this to convention growers and also works excellent for them.

Cost about 100 bucks delivered for 50 million nemasys an 25k hypoaspis.

Gnatrol at 1tbsp per gallon 1x per week for 3 weeks has also worked well.
What is more cost effective, all depends on the size of garden and containers.
$45.00 gets you 500 grams of gnatrol via amazon.

Sticky traps to catch the fliers. Would use at least one of those as bare minumum.

All depends on your budget and time you have to spend in the grow. Here are additional ways to wipe out adults.

Insecticide soap and pyrethium also helps to wipe out adults. (flys)

foliar spray of Conserve SC. 1/2 tsp per gallon helps control the adult fungus gnats.

I can get rid of them with solely hypoasis and nematodes.

If you use pyrethium, conserve or soap, Do that first. Order the beneficials, then apply them after.

Do not want to harm the hypoaspis so do one or the other or time it right.

The life cycle of fungus gnats.

That is a really great example of integrated pest management! Kudos!

 

[KaiserSoze]

Yes.
I have experience with Steinernema feltiae and hypoaspis miles will wipe them out with a quickness. The hypoaspis are fast. Have recommended this to convention growers and also works excellent for them.

Cost about 100 bucks delivered for 50 million nemasys an 25k hypoaspis.

Gnatrol at 1tbsp per gallon 1x per week for 3 weeks has also worked well.
What is more cost effective, all depends on the size of garden and containers.
$45.00 gets you 500 grams of gnatrol via amazon.

Sticky traps to catch the fliers. Would use at least one of those as bare minumum.

All depends on your budget and time you have to spend in the grow. Here are additional ways to wipe out adults.

Insecticide soap and pyrethium also helps to wipe out adults. (flys)

foliar spray of Conserve SC. 1/2 tsp per gallon helps control the adult fungus gnats.

I can get rid of them with solely hypoasis and nematodes.

If you use pyrethium, conserve or soap, Do that first. Order the beneficials, then apply them after.

Do not want to harm the hypoaspis so do one or the other or time it right.

The life cycle of fungus gnats.

missed the question about the bagged ewc. I have seen the nematodes survive in a bagged EWC but there was not alot of them and the bag was fresh.

Awesome, thanks @leadsled ill give that a shot.

 

[KaiserSoze]

That is a really great example of integrated pest management! Kudos!

On the topic of IPM, I brought home some clones from a friends warehouse and a couple weeks later he told me he thinks he's got broad mites. After thoroughly scaring the shit out of myself after reading about them I decided I'd release some amblyseuis swirskii predatory mites as a precaution. I'm wondering whether the mites will affect the flavor of the product if they're still present at harvest or will they just leave the plant after they run out of food? Is there anything that should be done to remove them before harvest or should I just leave them be? Thanks for any advice! You guys rock!