Killing Microbial Life

[BiGGinZ]

Why are you putting all that stuff in? Truly all you really need is high quality (vermi)compost and molasses to grow out a full compliment of microbes. If you are including endomycorrhizal fungi spores in compost tea, this is a waste of time and money.

Pretty much spot on...

 

[DrFeelGood]

Why are you putting all that stuff in? Truly all you really need is high quality (vermi)compost and molasses to grow out a full compliment of microbes. If you are including endomycorrhizal fungi spores in compost tea, this is a waste of time and money.

Pardon my ignorance but what is (vermi) compost, and how does one make or acquire it?

Dr FG

 

[Buddy Hemphill]

Pardon my ignorance but what is (vermi) compost, and how does one make or acquire it?

Dr FG

from wiki

Vermicompost
Rotary screen harvested worm castingsVermicompost is the product of composting utilizing various species of worms, usually red wigglers, white worms, and earthworms to create a heterogeneous mixture of decomposing vegetable or food waste (not to include meat, dairy, fats or oils), bedding materials, and vermicast. Vermicast, also known as worm castings, worm humus or worm manure, is the end-product of the breakdown of organic matter by species of earthworm.[23] This type of composting is sometimes suggested as a feasible indoor composting method [24]

The earthworm species (or composting worms) most often used are Red Wigglers (Eisenia foetida or Eisenia andrei), though European nightcrawlers (Eisenia hortensis) could also be used. Red wigglers are recommended by most vermiculture experts as they have some of the best appetites and breed very quickly. Users refer to European nightcrawlers by a variety of other names, including dendrobaenas, dendras, and Belgian nightcrawlers.

Containing water-soluble nutrients, vermicompost is a nutrient-rich organic fertilizer and soil conditioner.[25]

Vermicompost tea has been shown to cause a 173.5% increase in plant growth by mass over plants grown without castings. These results were seen with only 10% addition of castings to produce these results.[26]




Any decent garden center should carry castings or vermicompost.

 

[InTheBeginning]

I use the term (vermi)compost so as to refer to either thermophylic, static compost or vermicompost. I use vermicompost from piles or bins which is not screened, so as to leave the fungal hyphae more intact. Instead I harvest the worms with traps. I believe that the humus content of worm digested material is higher in bins and piles, where the material can be re-digested, than it is in flow through systems (IMO)

I should add that very little of the nutrients contained in vermicompost or castings are in soluble form. This seems a myth started by who knows? The nutrients must be microbially cycled or in some cases dissolved/mineralized by root exudates to become (ionic) bioavailable.

 

[DrFeelGood]

Have any of you tried using the composting worms directly in large soil containers that contain plants? What about in coco fiber medium? My friends used to have a worm farm and their composting/bedding medium was coco fiber. I am thinking that that might be fun to try! I guess if the in organic fertilizer doesn't kill the worms it should be beneficial to the plant by composting and aerating the medium...

Dr FG

 

[Seamaiden]

Not I, but my sister has a compost bin that's open to the earth and she almost can't get to the castings for all the worms. I need to do the same sort of thing, or strike a deal with sis! Hey now... that's an idea... <musing>

 

[Seamaiden]

Another good thread for organic-heads.

 

[Topofthecrop]

awesome thread bro

I'm with this guy.

 

[HL Gunn]

"Fertilizer salts form soluble ions in soil water. Increased concentration of ions increases osmotic pressure and decreases water potential, making it harder for plants to take up water. This is why plants affected by “fertilizer burn” look about the same as if they had been stricken by drought. They can’t get the water, because there’s too much salt in it." I cut and pasted this into my notes years ago. I cant remember where I got it. (when roots become over saturated similar symptoms occur) a firm understanding of osmosis goes a long ways to growing healthy plants.

Plants need a certain amount of salts. Even organic composts and manure contain organic and inorganic salts and as the organic material breaks down the salt level increases. Synthetic fertilizers are much more concitrated than organic material in both salt and nutrition.

This is where issues with microbial life come in. Each microorgamisn is just that, a tiny organism, a living thing. Just like us and our plants their survival and proliferation is dependent upon genetics, environment and resources. These organism have a maximum metobolic rate and although capapable of regulating natuaral fluxuation of evironment need relatively stable living conditions. Synthetic nutrients, do to their consintrated nature can throw this off more easily. Also there is organic material breaking down in the soil so it may be hard to regulate or measure salinity of the soil in hybrid synthetic/organic feeding. Disrupting the balance that your microorganisms work to maintain can be detramental. Flushing can have a negative effect on microbial networks as well, which is needed more with urea based nutrients.

Vermicompost tea is great for veg and pre-flower because it provides an esealy accessable source of nitrogen and is high in good bacteria. They love sugar! Aslo its hard to over do it! Bacteria for Robust Root growth!

I have found Forest Humus compost based tea is a better flowering option. Although they take longer to compost and brew they have a greater fungal content do to relatively high humic acid content. Fungi 4 Flowers!

Lastly I would not recomend adding Great White shark to a tea till after its brewed. Bacteria spread and reproduce a whole lot faster than fungus. The bacteria will out-compete and even eat your fungi. Plus unlike the bacteria fungi need something to attach to.

Oops, one more thing, watch out for high trichoderma inoculants. Trichaderma is the cheapest and most aggressive of the fungi in these things. The trichoderma will take over and leave little room for microbial diversity.

Not trying to solicit but this product is the Bees knees and at $50 a lbs a great deal! They also offer a 4 oz package.
http://www.gardencitygardensupply.c...eficial-bacteria-organic-supplement-1-lb.html

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

Another good thread for organic-heads.

damn i read this awhile ago, way to bring this back to life Sea. This is a great thread.

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

I have found Forest Humus compost based tea is a better flowering option. Although they take longer to compost and brew they have a greater fungal content do to relatively high humic acid content. Fungi 4 Flowers!

Oops, one more thing, watch out for high trichoderma inoculants. Trichaderma is the cheapest and most aggressive of the fungi in these things. The trichoderma will take over and leave little room for microbial diversity.

Great points here. mind if i ask for a bit more info on you flowering tea? whats the brew duration when using forest humus?

true about trichoderma, my buddy from ABC organics (primmordial solutions - sea green dudes) dropped some knowledge on me about trichos not to long ago. Saying how companies commercializing beneficial bacterias use alot of trichos for fillers, which in abundance can cause problems to microbial populations. However out of the many strains of trichoderma, there are its benefits such as: plant pathogen prevention, rhizosphere colonization, plant growth promotion and so on. so dont flip if you see trichoderma in your listed propagules/gram.Z

 

[HL Gunn]

Great points here. mind if i ask for a bit more info on you flowering tea? whats the brew duration when using forest humus?

true about trichoderma, my buddy from ABC organics (primmordial solutions - sea green dudes) dropped some knowledge on me about trichos not to long ago. Saying how companies commercializing beneficial bacterias use alot of trichos for fillers, which in abundance can cause problems to microbial populations. However out of the many strains of trichoderma, there are its benefits such as: plant pathogen prevention, rhizosphere colonization, plant growth promotion and so on. so dont flip if you see trichoderma in your listed propagules/gram.Z

I totally agree! trichoderma are awesome just in the proper ratios, like everything:)

With flower teas whether one uses bone meal, ancient guano, forest humus or a combo which is how I roll, the beneficials you are trying to get are fungi and the organic matter involved is often complex and slowly decomposed. This is why I run my mid flower aact bubbler for 36hr-48hr. Without all the protein and rapid multiplying bacteria that is in vermicompost it won't go bad nearly as fast and doesn't foam or anything.

 

[HL Gunn]

Also a little humic fulvic mix added to the forest tea will prolong its lifespan.

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

Also a little humic fulvic mix added to the forest tea will prolong its lifespan.

what do you prefer powdered like bio ags humisolve,tm7... or liquid such as fulpower?

 

[HL Gunn]

what do you prefer powdered like bio ags humisolve,tm7... or liquid such as fulpower?

Liquid is much better for teas and dry for soil amendment. It can be a bear getting all the goodies out of the powders in a tea.

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

Liquid is much better for teas and dry for soil amendment. It can be a bear getting all the goodies out of the powders in a tea.

agreed, just curious on other peeps inputs ;)

i have this product i havent tested yet in my teas. ive watered it in and have had great results, just never brewed.

Fish, Humic Acid, & Kelp - 2-4-2
ingredients: organic fish hydrolysate, concentrated humic acid, organic kelp, and lactic acid(stabilizer).
-no additives or preservatives
-raw
-non GMO

Dilution: 6oz/gal per 1,000 sq ft. - every 4 weeks.

IYO, would this be beneficial brewed in my teas or would it serve a better purpose adding it in after the tea is brewed like i do w/ sea green?

sorry for all the Q's just simply looking for better conclusions.
Z

 

[HL Gunn]

That combo would be to your tea, what brick and mortar are to a mason!

Sorry if I'm commenting too much, kinda new to the forum thing.

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

i dunno y i didnt upload a pic of this when i asked.

and no, comment as much as needed to. thats what brings a thread back to life especially when hibernatin since '11. especially if the comments are filled with knowledge pertaining to the thread, although the topic drifted a bit with my last q's.... oopsZ

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

That combo would be to your tea, what brick and mortar are to a mason!

Sorry if I'm commenting too much, kinda new to the forum thing.

Mason by trade here! prefer hod carry'n though if ya kno what i mean?!

 

[Mogrow]

come back cc, that other place is for the birds...
hth, knew it was you, plus the freaking awesome knowledge..