So many people are waiting for an affordable LED and I'm beginning to think they will never be affordable to me so my next quest is adjustable theatre led ......I'm hoping since led's have been in theatre for so long maybe they have affordable version fir me but who knows and something tells me those who do know are keeping info to themselves

You wanna ask @619ster he is are resident led grower with all the info and research ..... my take is if led were so good at this point you would see them in alot of the bigger growers rooms as the electricity saving would outweigh the cost but just mho ...

I haven't used them but in this vid they look pretty darn promising:
[video]

Oh am I really getting itchy to have a non heat issue light and this video didn't help , might be buying a powerful LED real soon ....

619ster said:

I haven't used them but in this vid they look pretty darn promising

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this is another example of what i find so irritating about the led marketplace. it's populated by seemingly hundreds of guys who import pre-designed units from china with their label slapped onto it. perhaps they've had it modified a bit here or there so that it isn't a complete duplicate. almost all of them know very little about lighting, but attempt to convince you that their unit is better than anyone else's. kinda like bad used car salesmen.

so, the giveaway in this instance? he tells you that he's measuring lumens with his light meter. they even graph the "lumen output" of the various products.

problem is that his light meter doesn't measure lumens, it measures lux or footcandles. anyone who has taken even the most basic class in lighting wouldn't make that mistake . . . . and yet this is the company's marketing video. it demonstrates just how little they know about lighting.

Papa said:

this is another example of what i find so irritating about the led marketplace. it's populated by seemingly hundreds of guys who import pre-designed units from china with their label slapped onto it. perhaps they've had it modified a bit here or there so that it isn't a complete duplicate. almost all of them know very little about lighting, but attempt to convince you that their unit is better than anyone else's. kinda like bad used car salesmen.

so, the giveaway in this instance? he tells you that he's measuring lumens with his light meter. they even graph the "lumen output" of the various products.

problem is that his light meter doesn't measure lumens, it measures lux or footcandles. anyone who has taken even the most basic class in lighting wouldn't make that mistake . . . . and yet this is the company's marketing video. it demonstrates just how little they know about lighting.

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I was going to speculate on that but saved it. But now that you're on the subject :D

This is directed to the cannabis growing community and HPS growers. What seems to be important to cannabis/HPS growers? Lumens no? Isn't that why the whole 600w vs. 1000w issue is a big debate? Most claim the 600w is most efficient as it creates more "lumens" with less wattage. But yet we don't care about lumens right? Not directing this at you as I know you're a wise knowledgable individual. But just saying lol. Directed more so to the comment.

Also was going to get into the whole car salesman topic as that is very true. Most likely the same KIND LEDs can be found from the manufacturer for much less, just without the logo. I'm sure a search through the aliexpress.com site would yield surprising results. But I've said it too many times already but I'll say it again.... Research research and RESEARCH AGAIN!!

But that may be too complicated for some lol.

I saw a split ad or two in some free grow mags. with the other half of the page gorilla grow tent wonder if they are together.

caveman4.20 said:

So many people are waiting for an affordable LED and I'm beginning to think they will never be affordable to me so my next quest is adjustable theatre led ......I'm hoping since led's have been in theatre for so long maybe they have affordable version fir me but who knows and something tells me those who do know are keeping info to themselves

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I know people in the industry and the techies have already looked into it, pardon the pun. The LED systems used in entertainment lighting are drastically different than what's optimal for our purposes and would not make a good substitute.

soserthc1 said:

You wanna ask @619ster he is are resident led grower with all the info and research ..... my take is if led were so good at this point you would see them in alot of the bigger growers rooms as the electricity saving would outweigh the cost but just mho ...

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If saving power is your goal, I have lots of ways to help. These opportunities get better and easier to implement the larger the operation. This is something I've spent years working on and I have a suite of mutually symbiotic yet also individually beneficial technologies to save power on a residential or commercial scale.

ttystikk said:

If saving power is your goal, I have lots of ways to help. These opportunities get better and easier to implement the larger the operation. This is something I've spent years working on and I have a suite of mutually symbiotic yet also individually beneficial technologies to save power on a residential or commercial scale.

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Saving power is always something I would love to hear about esp as I can't really get nuts in my local but heat is also a issue in summer and my ampage is only 30 currently in the room - so first i'm gonna need to up my amps before I even start thinking air condition but please pm me some energy saving tips when you get a moment my friend or maybe all would like to hear your call ...

soserthc1 said:

Saving power is always something I would love to hear about esp as I can't really get nuts in my local but heat is also a issue in summer and my ampage is only 30 currently in the room - so first i'm gonna need to up my amps before I even start thinking air condition but please pm me some energy saving tips when you get a moment my friend or maybe all would like to hear your call ...

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First tip; don't buy AC, buy a big water chiller instead. You're still buying a compressor, this way you're also getting built-in dehuey and water chilling for your RDWC. These units are about twice as efficient at removing heat from your op as standard AC.

The horizontal trellis everyone is used to? An efficiency digester from start to finish! Want to get more out of your light? Hang it vertically and wrap your trellis vertically around it. You'll go from being able to light 16-20 ft² per thouie to lighting 50 ft²- and it will be lit BETTER, to boot!

Once you have a water cooling system installed, adding more features to save on heating and cooling costs becomes easy- and fun! You want to keep your garage from freezing? Hook up a radiator and fan to water coming back from your grow rooms, and the garage will be warmed with waste heat, heat you now need not run the compressor to get rid of. Your garage will stay 55f or warmer.

If you want to heat your home for FREE like I do every winter, bring your chiller indoors. Mine are window mount units; they spend all summer blowing their heat outside. In fall, I bring one in and put it on a table in my office. I leave the window open and add a window fan on a thermostat that will run whenever it gets too warm in the room. This is also the cold air intake for the whole house. Chiller runs, air heats up, intake suction and window fan move it through the house, we stay in the mid 70s or warmer all winter- and save over $1000 a season in heating bills alone. Over three years, that feature ALONE will pay for the unit, nevermind the efficiency gains vs AC!

That's tier one. I got two more tiers of energy savings to go, and those don't even touch my heat reduction tips...

A parting tip; your bloomroom is like a jet airliner, in that while it's sitting parked, doing anything other than the job it was made for, it's not making you one thin dime. Until that jet rolls down the runway loaded with paying passengers, it's just an expensive liability.

Don't EVER let your bloomroom sit empty- or even worse, veg in it. Your veg stage's whole mission in life is to deliver a BLOOM READY PLANT TO YOUR BLOOMROOM ON TIME. PERIOD. If it isn't doing that, scrap the fucker and start with a clean sheet, cuz it's costing you at least one crop a year- and probably more like two.

ttystikk said:

A parting tip; your bloomroom is like a jet airliner, in that while it's sitting parked, doing anything other than the job it was made for, it's not making you one thin dime. Until that jet rolls down the runway loaded with paying passengers, it's just an expensive liability.

Don't EVER let your bloomroom sit empty- or even worse, veg in it. Your veg stage's whole mission in life is to deliver a BLOOM READY PLANT TO YOUR BLOOMROOM ON TIME. PERIOD. If it isn't doing that, scrap the fucker and start with a clean sheet, cuz it's costing you at least one crop a year- and probably more like two.

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Interesting stuff need to study the message more in dept but gotta run out real fast ... 1 thing to add its a basement not a garage and when its 32 out my temp is sitting at 81 - and at night no lower than 70 so heating will not be an issue but a chiller and hanging light vertical sounds real interesting .... i have the humidity under control somewhat currently during lights on 59-67 ish which has kept me procrastinating on the dehuey but its dips at lights off to 74 max from the window ledge that does not have a ballast sitting on it ... the one with the balast is fine but it kicks enough heat to keep that one humidity free , and i would never veg in my flower room - just a waste of electric to me ... appreciate the help brother brb in 30

619ster said:

I was going to speculate on that but saved it. But now that you're on the subject :D

This is directed to the cannabis growing community and HPS growers. What seems to be important to cannabis/HPS growers? Lumens no? Isn't that why the whole 600w vs. 1000w issue is a big debate? Most claim the 600w is most efficient as it creates more "lumens" with less wattage. But yet we don't care about lumens right? Not directing this at you as I know you're a wise knowledgable individual. But just saying lol. Directed more so to the comment.

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my thought is that people talk about lumens only because it's the most accessible information available . . . after wattage. the problem is that the lumens produced by a lamp doesn't tell us what is produced by the light fixture, or how much light or what kind of light is getting to where we want/need it). it's kinda like telling us how much horsepower an engine produces. that doesn't tell us how fast the car will do a 1/4 mile in. the 1/4 mile time will depend on a lot more (torque, transmission, rear-end gearing, tires, etc.). the effectiveness of a light fixture for growing is a combination of a similar number of factors, the lumen output of the lamp is just the starting point.

unfortunately, the led growlight community has a large population of people in it that are ignorant of illumination engineering basics . . . . and they take advantage of the typical buyer who hasn't done their homework.

re: your comment "Isn't that why the whole 600w vs. 1000w issue is a big debate? Most claim the 600w is most efficient as it creates more "lumens" with less wattage. But yet we don't care about lumens right?"

i didn't know this was a big debate, but the fact is that 600w hid lamps are typically more efficient than 1,000w lamps at producing visible light. that means that lumens/watt is higher. it does not mean that "it creates more "lumens" with less wattage." a 1,000 watt lamp provides more lumens, it also uses more electricity, it just provides less lumens per watt used. so if you are running two rooms and each room has 6,000 watts of hps lighting, one room has six 1,000 lamps and the other room has ten 600 watt lamps . . . . the ten 600 watt lamps are actually producing more total visible light than the six 1000w lamp room. this isn't debatable, it's a fact.
if there's a debate, it might be about which of those two rooms are better . . . . and of course this depends on your criteria of better.
if better means more light, then it's the ten 600w lamps (other variables like fixture efficacy being equal). if better means lower initial cost, then it's the six 1000w lamps (buying six fixtures/ballasts rather than ten). if better means getting more of those lumens that are produced by the lamps onto the plants, then it's likely the ten 600w lamps hung vertically within the plant grouping. if better means showing off a larger phallic shaped lamp to your buddies, then it's the six 1000w lamps.

but my main point is that a properly designed lighting solution for a growing environment is not determined by the output of a lamp (which for flood lights is measured in lumens) . . . . but rather by acquiring and utilizing specific knowledge and established vocabulary accurately, and that is something that is oftentimes missing from the led marketplace.

@Papa well said! Lighting is only one piece of the puzzle of a good grow room and a good grow op.

I like the analogy of building a drag car, I use automotive metaphors a lot.

I've been investigating how to improve the efficiency of gardening indoors for years now, and there is an awful lot more to it than just lighting. In fact, a focus on lighting to the exclusion of the rest of the room is likely to end badly; the best systems are SYSTEMS, that is, everything is designed to work best together.

I don't like the horsepower reference because most men will always choose high horsepower over lower hp lol.it just seems like there's a lot of non believers with led, but if they ever get the lumens to match hid they would be set to beat Em hands down because of there ability to tune in the colors for better par right? Idk man I keep hearing lumens are for humans and par, cri, blablabla but if that was the case then led should be the best no?
6er, every time I see a pic of your grow i want to buy a big olé bad ass led fixture :) plus it reminds me of days at the tittybar , could put up a disco ball in the flower pad n get some hot chicken posters, shit i would never leave my room lol.

Just for kicks lol!

Thanks @sixstring I keep faith in LEDs. May not be the best thing going "yet", but I'm still running LEDs from 3 years ago who have saved me $$$ and have harvested plenty hauls from 'em and they're still kicking. Paid for themselves many times over by now.

@Papa I did word a couple statements wrong but all good. I'm glad we had this debate as you've brought up lots of good points and I didn't have to type any of it out myself lol. Always bringing that good info!

One day I'll get on your tech @ttystikk and come up with a rediciculously highly efficient garden. LEDs and water cooling FTW!!

619ster said:

View attachment 360727 Just for kicks lol!

Thanks @sixstring I keep faith in LEDs. May not be the best thing going "yet", but I'm still running LEDs from 3 years ago who have saved me $$$ and have harvested plenty hauls from 'em and they're still kicking. Paid for themselves many times over by now.

@Papa I did word a couple statements wrong but all good. I'm glad we had this debate as you've brought up lots of good points and I didn't have to type any of it out myself lol. Always bringing that good info!

One day I'll get on your tech @ttystikk and come up with a rediciculously highly efficient garden. LEDs and water cooling FTW!!

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Looking good. ..I've smoked dank from leds before and didn't know the difference .To each its own i say...But some prices are. Just STUPID (imo)&(budget) lol what's your brand going 3calendars? ? #informe

Gamrstwin36 said:

Looking good. ..I've smoked dank from leds before and didn't know the difference .To each its own i say...But some prices are. Just STUPID (imo)&(budget) lol what's your brand going 3calendars? ? #informe

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$200 for the ones growing the bud I posted in the pic. Peace!