Large plants dying

[napalisherpa]

Our plants have been doing beautifully throughout the season. This photo was taken today. Almost all the plants look like this
.
Sunday, we discovered this

and this.

Since Sunday we have:
pulled up 3 plants that died within 24 hours of finding limp branches,
have one plant that's halfway dead (like this)

and another that is showing signs like the previous four

We dug up the plants to find the roots looking like this

and the interior of the plant looking like this

We also have not watered since Sunday. In the previous days we have thought one of these now dead plants needed water, but it only seemed to accelerate their death, while the others are still okay for now.

We did not find mold when we dug through the mounds, we did not find an infestation of insects that would kill the plants this quickly and systematically. We have yet to find a gopher hole IN the garden, but we did find this 100 feet down the hill

Another hundred feet we found a colony of mounds.

This is the type of terrain we're working with up top. We had to use a jackhammer to break up all the rock so we could bring native soil from below to act as a buffer, then we put our good soil on top and formed mounds.

We have cages for 3/4 of the plants, we questioned even needing them in the first place. Out of the 5 plants that got sick one of them was caged, but didn't have any holes anywhere around or atop the mound. We're pretty certain the problem is gophers, but the healthy tap roots and the lack of gopher holes in or even that close to our garden confuse us. What else kills off a healthy, vigorous plant without any warning? Over the course of a day?

I'm going to home depot after I post this to try and ward off these bastards (if that truly is the problem), hopefully some repellant will help. Tomorrow, I'm watering in actinovate (which I had already planned on doing last week). I'm wondering about treating/dreanching the soil with insecticide, or if I'm wasting money (we've been very diligent about preventative treatments).

Mostly, I'm looking for similar stories/solutions/questions to make it easier to troubleshoot. I think it's gophers, I may be wrong. Help

 

[SunGrown]

Very sorry to see this.

A few of us here have been battling odd shit this year, from russet mites to a guy losing a couple plants due to not watering to possible TMV

To me it does look like gopher damage, but I would not say for sure, usually when a gopher hits maybe half the plant will die, not the whole plant, And since you found no gopher damage I do not think that is the case.

What part of the world are you in? It could be as simply as not watering, or lack of water let a pest take hold.

Have you used a good microscope to look closely at the leaves yet??

I, as well as a few others here will try to help you for sure, but lets make sure what it isn't first to help diagnose.

I had russet mites and could only see them at 400x digital usb scope. I do not think that is what this is though at first glance.

Lets start helping this guy Farm!

 

[forsaken]

You sure it's not underwatering? That rootball doesn't seem to have any noticeable gopher damage from what I can see, though it's hard to tell with it dug up like that. If you have gophers nearby and it's not underwatering, then they're your most likely candidate.

 

[caregiverken]

yeah bummer man!:(
it looks like the same thing @rogue farmer has

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/sick-girls-please-help.65122/page-2#post-1301576

 

[SunGrown]

yeah bummer man!:(
it looks like the same thing @rogue farmer has

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/sick-girls-please-help.65122/page-2#post-1301576

Looks a lot like that, so water the shit out of them, then water again. Spray the plants leaves to keep humidity up for the next day or two as well, wouldn't you say ken?

 

[DarkSpark]

Definitely water deprivation, but the cause of...:confused:

 

[caregiverken]

Yeah, it looks dry there...pot plants like humidity

 

[Blaze]

Unlikely that it is gophers in my opinion, the damage they do is VERY obvious. If you didn't not find the base of the stems chewed up, or burrows around the root ball when you dug the dead plants up, they are not your culprit. My money would be on some sort of pathogen in the soil, probably fungal in nature. Fungal diseases like Fusarium is one of the few things that can kill a large, mature plant in a day or two with no obvious damage. The problem with diseases like that is they infect the plant long before any visual symptoms appear - by the time you notice anything, the plant is already dead. It is probably not under-watering (thought that could be a contributing factor) because a few days of under-watering will not kill a plant that well established that rapidly.

Do you have a better picture of the base of the plant? Have you seen any deep scaring or grooving at the crown, or any discoloration? Whatever it is, something is attacking the xylem and phloem layers of the plant preventing it from being able to uptake water and nutrients from what I can tell from you pictures.

 

[forsaken]

Root nematodes could do similar to fungal pathogens.

 

[SunGrown]

Unlikely that it is gophers in my opinion, the damage they do is VERY obvious. If you didn't not find the base of the stems chewed up, or burrows around the root ball when you dug the dead plants up, they are not your culprit. My money would be on some sort of pathogen in the soil, probably fungal in nature. Fungal diseases like Fusarium is one of the few things that can kill a large, mature plant in a day or two with no obvious damage. The problem with diseases like that is they infect the plant long before any visual symptoms appear - by the time you notice anything, the plant is already dead. It is probably not under-watering (thought hat could be a contributing factor) because a few days of under-watering will not kill a plant that well established that rapidly.

Do you have a better picture of the base of the plant? Have you seen any deep scaring or grooving at the crown, or any discoloration? Whatever it is, something is attacking the xylem and phloem layers of the plant preventing it from being able to uptake water and nutrients from what I can tell from you pictures.

Good call Blaze, and good to see you around!

 

[napalisherpa]

Very sorry to see this.

A few of us here have been battling odd shit this year, from russet mites to a guy losing a couple plants due to not watering to possible TMV

To me it does look like gopher damage, but I would not say for sure, usually when a gopher hits maybe half the plant will die, not the whole plant, And since you found no gopher damage I do not think that is the case.

What part of the world are you in? It could be as simply as not watering, or lack of water let a pest take hold.

Have you used a good microscope to look closely at the leaves yet??

I, as well as a few others here will try to help you for sure, but lets make sure what it isn't first to help diagnose.

I had russet mites and could only see them at 400x digital usb scope. I do not think that is what this is though at first glance.

Lets start helping this guy Farm!

Well, the thing is we freaked out and watered that specific plant along with the next one that was looking strange. The first one just died while the other one's symptoms worsened, then eventually died.

We're going to water in actinovate tomorrow which we had already planned on doing.

When we watered one that looked stressed today, it showed IMMEDIATE deterioration, even though it hasn't been watered since Sunday.

We have also had thrips, in fact we sprayed insecticide geared specifically for thrips last week (for preventative) and I do know those things can spread terrible diseases.

The temperature did drop ~20 degrees last week and that's really when this stuff started happening. I would think overwatering if anything... but I'm confused.

 

[caregiverken]

Unlikely that it is gophers in my opinion, the damage they do is VERY obvious. If you didn't not find the base of the stems chewed up, or burrows around the root ball when you dug the dead plants up, they are not your culprit. My money would be on some sort of pathogen in the soil, probably fungal in nature. Fungal diseases like Fusarium is one of the few things that can kill a large, mature plant in a day or two with no obvious damage. The problem with diseases like that is they infect the plant long before any visual symptoms appear - by the time you notice anything, the plant is already dead. It is probably not under-watering (thought that could be a contributing factor) because a few days of under-watering will not kill a plant that well established that rapidly.

Do you have a better picture of the base of the plant? Have you seen any deep scaring or grooving at the crown, or any discoloration? Whatever it is, something is attacking the xylem and phloem layers of the plant preventing it from being able to uptake water and nutrients from what I can tell from you pictures.

GTSY Blaze! :)
What can be done to prevent Fungal diseases like Fusarium??
Is Actinovate effective against those?

 

[napalisherpa]

Fusarium wilt is my worst nightmare. It's rare, but it happens. The plants that have been affected are all double potted, so wouldn't that mean the other plant would be in just as much distress as its' dead partner plant? They share the same soil... I hope this stops.

 

[sanvanalona]

Alright hopefully this is not seen as too simple but could you be watering with hot water on those plants? I left my crop for a week last year and my friends that I left in charge killed my largest plant by watering without allowing the hose to spit out the hot water. The plant and roots looked exactly like your photos.

 

[SunGrown]

Alright hopefully this is not seen as too simple but could you be watering with hot water on those plants? I left my crop for a week last year and my friends that I left in charge killed my largest plant by watering without allowing the hose to spit out the hot water. The plant and roots looked exactly like your photos.

It does happen, I do not think it is dumb at all to suggest the idea.

 

[caregiverken]

i found this but its doesnt help me..as a matter of fact. it scares me..

Controlling Fusarium Wilt
Fusarium is most prevalent in warm soils. It is harbored in old plant debris and soil. The best way to prevent infection in your crops or plants is rotation and sterilization.

Never plant the same crop in the same place annually.

except hemp and cannabis..right?
:confused:
I do "no till gardening":nailbiting:

 

[napalisherpa]

Alright hopefully this is not seen as too simple but could you be watering with hot water on those plants? I left my crop for a week last year and my friends that I left in charge killed my largest plant by watering without allowing the hose to spit out the hot water. The plant and roots looked exactly like your photos.

We water via drip lines. The timers go off very early in the morning. I wish that was it :(

 

[m8ty]

Is that mulch or hay around the base of the plant??

 

[SunGrown]

i found this but its doesnt help me..as a matter of fact. it scares me..


except hemp and cannabis..right?
:confused:
I do "no till gardening":nailbiting:

I am telling you brotha, I am going back to straight promix hp or sunshine #4 + amendments next year!

@napalisherpa

How long are you running your timers?
What is the emitter?

 

[bongobongo]

This is way scary. Curious... Are both of these cases in Colorado?