Leaf Curl, Phantom Issue, Can't Figure Out

[Thelight413]

I'm having a little issue in my veg room, as soon as I put some plants into it, not all strains react but more sensitive strains like cookies and gg4, they start to do this strange leaf curl on new growth, they eventually grow out of it and fold completely open but something is up and I can't figure it out. As soon as I move plants out of this veg room, they start to go back to normal so I'm thinking its something environmental but I have some pics to share, hopefully someone has seen this before. The plants are healthy and growing very fast like normal but this leaf curl is really tough to figure out. Also, this is not bugs, broad mites or russet mites, I'm absolutely positive, I've scoped with multiple scopes and loop and there is nothing on the plants .

Link to video of plants:

I'm in coco, medium is in check @ 1.2 EC, PH between 5.8-6.2, temps in the room are 75 degrees and around 45-60% humidity. There is co2 running in the room as I'm circulating all the air from my flower room, through my veg and back through the flower room, just worked out best for me to keep the veg cooled. I was using a 315cmh but I switched it out recently for a t5 just to see if that made any difference and it doesn't seem to be. I had an oscillating fan on the wall but I took that down recently just to see if they were getting wind stress, I'm trying everything at this point.

My plants in the flower room are completely fine and thriving which is only a wall away and is sharing air with veg where the problem is, I've covered all untreated wood and all walls with panda paper, the floor has been sealed with a product called safe seal (prevents VOC's from leaking) and then I painted over it with a 0 VOC paint, I'm running a test right now with the water, have one plant on spring water from the store and the rest are on the water from place, which is run through a dechlorinator with KDF filter.

Also, I'm wondering if their is nothing wrong at all and the plants are just shading themselves to slow down a bit because they are growing so fast and root mass can't keep up with it. This guy explains this issue pretty well in this link below:
watch:

 

[jammie]

is there a change in light intensity or direct heat?? i had similiar issues with heat and light intensity at the end of last grow. my 1k's were only 12 or so inches from tops with poor air circulation. might try to get leaf temperature with infrared thermometers.

 

[showmegreen]

Are you in a cold climate? Is there a ot of static in your room? Ballasts in room? Grounded well? Static build up possibly if your ph is good as you say. Especially if they pop right out of it. That's my two cents.... Anyone?

 

[SpankyLoc]

Thats taco. Ive only seen that when RH gets too low ot russet mites .Hoe powerful is your scope? You need 60x minimum to see those bastards.

 

[Thelight413]

is there a change in light intensity or direct heat?? i had similiar issues with heat and light intensity at the end of last grow. my 1k's were only 12 or so inches from tops with poor air circulation. might try to get leaf temperature with infrared thermometers.

Not really much change, I veg under 315's, the temp stays between 75-80 degrees, pretty good air circulation in there

 

[Thelight413]

Thats taco. Ive only seen that when RH gets too low ot russet mites .Hoe powerful is your scope? You need 60x minimum to see those bastards.

RH is hanging around 45-60%, and yea I have a usb scope that goes to 200x I believe, its for sure not russet, broad or cyclamen mites, I've seen what they look like through lots of research and there aren't any on these plants, thank you though.

 

[Thelight413]

Are you in a cold climate? Is there a ot of static in your room? Ballasts in room? Grounded well? Static build up possibly if your ph is good as you say. Especially if they pop right out of it. That's my two cents.... Anyone?

It's cold outside of my spot yes, I'm in Colorado in a carriage apartment/house essentially, old place that got stripped down once new owner bought it, I have all the ballasts mounted in this veg room, problem was there before I mounted these ballasts though.

However, I do have a 20 amp and 30 amp circuit in this veg room, one for all my lights and one for my AC in the flower room, The 20 amp outlet has conduit that runs from the veg room to the flower room for my AC to plug into and then I have conduit running from an outlet (30 amp) in the flower room into the veg room. Reason for this, there was a stove outlet (30 amps) in the flower room (Old kitchen/living room) that I had ran into the veg because I didn't want to mount ballast in flower room and the veg is the old laundry room which had the 20 amp outlet, so I had that ran into the flower room to plug my ac into, hopefully that makes sense, can clarify more if you need

 

[showmegreen]

It's cold outside of my spot yes, I'm in Colorado in a carriage apartment/house essentially, old place that got stripped down once new owner bought it, I have all the ballasts mounted in this veg room, problem was there before I mounted these ballasts though.

However, I do have a 20 amp and 30 amp circuit in this veg room, one for all my lights and one for my AC in the flower room, The 20 amp outlet has conduit that runs from the veg room to the flower room for my AC to plug into and then I have conduit running from an outlet (30 amp) in the flower room into the veg room. Reason for this, there was a stove outlet (30 amps) in the flower room (Old kitchen/living room) that I had ran into the veg because I didn't want to mount ballast in flower room and the veg is the old laundry room which had the 20 amp outlet, so I had that ran into the flower room to plug my ac into, hopefully that makes sense, can clarify more if you need

So if I'm correct on following your explanation is that you have a kinda ground loop going on with the conduit (It is metal, right?) And high amplitude circuits aid in static or accumulated energy. How good is your ground going back to your mainstay panel? Sub panel? You are only as good as your ground. If it idinit bleeding oft to the ground then it' hangin around somewheres. I once watered my babies with calcium water I made with roasted egg shells steeped in acitic acid. Only problem was that I was stoned and Fergot to neutralize the solution. Talk about taco! I mean them babies were turning thermselves in side out and flip flopping. Well I took a led power upply a metal tin and some wires with allgator clips and placed the positive atop the plant and the neg in the metal tray. I was in peat and good ol Ozark mountian love mud mixed. So i filled the trsy with ro water and plugded her in. Sure enough tha three plants i had murdered unfolded and stood right on up! I'e done some YouTube readin
On shock therapy and plants. And there is sumptin about it worth investigating.

 

[chemistry]

Humidity would be my guess, most plants can suffer a bit of heat if they have a good humidity, if not the leaves start to dry out and the leaves curl to save burning the upper surface, also give your root ball a quick look over.

 

[EventHorizan]

So if I'm correct on following your explanation is that you have a kinda ground loop going on with the conduit (It is metal, right?) And high amplitude circuits aid in static or accumulated energy. How good is your ground going back to your mainstay panel? Sub panel? You are only as good as your ground. If it idinit bleeding oft to the ground then it' hangin around somewheres. I once watered my babies with calcium water I made with roasted egg shells steeped in acitic acid. Only problem was that I was stoned and Fergot to neutralize the solution. Talk about taco! I mean them babies were turning thermselves in side out and flip flopping. Well I took a led power upply a metal tin and some wires with allgator clips and placed the positive atop the plant and the neg in the metal tray. I was in peat and good ol Ozark mountian love mud mixed. So i filled the trsy with ro water and plugded her in. Sure enough tha three plants i had murdered unfolded and stood right on up! I'e done some YouTube readin
On shock therapy and plants. And there is sumptin about it worth investigating.

What??? Explain...

 

[showmegreen]

Just like I said. I'm serious as a heart attack. I don't know how else ta explain it. All I know is it worked. I do know energy is ever thing and ever thing is made of energy. An when we have too much energy in one spot it's bad and if there ain' enuff it's bad. It has to even it'self out. Heat is energy. Light is energy. Static is energy. Cold is less energy. Darkness is less energy. And ummm... sumptin oppsite of static is less energy. I'm no genius or nuthin. But if you got too much or too little of sumptin them lil darlins will sure as fire tell ya. Jus gotta listen.

 

[chemistry]

Just like I said. I'm serious as a heart attack. I don't know how else ta explain it. All I know is it worked. I do know energy is ever thing and ever thing is made of energy. An when we have too much energy in one spot it's bad and if there ain' enuff it's bad. It has to even it'self out. Heat is energy. Light is energy. Static is energy. Cold is less energy. Darkness is less energy. And ummm... sumptin oppsite of static is less energy. I'm no genius or nuthin. But if you got too much or too little of sumptin them lil darlins will sure as fire tell ya. Jus gotta listen.

Can you put up a vid, I would like to see your science in action.

 

[showmegreen]

I actually have a zip drive somewheres that shows it in essece. Cuz I was like "shore as shit! I gotta video this." Im not positive where it is cuz life has happened since then. You know... jail, moved, cps, etc and so forth. If I had my faculties about me, I woulda had it all cataloged and organized and the world would be perfect. But I don't. I'm just a scatter brained bi-polar hillbillied redneck that at the moment can't grow his meds. Cuz some liberal arts major decided my children aren' fit enough to be aroun me if I medicate myself on what I know works. But instead want me to take a bunch of labotomies in a bottle that pharma paid to have some dude in a dress say is okay. I'll dig around an look fer that zip drive. And I can't grow cuz of cps. But I gotta git this wood cut and chopped first. It' gonna hit nasty in Missouri tomorrow!

 

[EventHorizan]

I actually have a zip drive somewheres that shows it in essece. Cuz I was like "shore as shit! I gotta video this." Im not positive where it is cuz life has happened since then. You know... jail, moved, cps, etc and so forth. If I had my faculties about me, I woulda had it all cataloged and organized and the world would be perfect. But I don't. I'm just a scatter brained bi-polar hillbillied redneck that at the moment can't grow his meds. Cuz some liberal arts major decided my children aren' fit enough to be aroun me if I medicate myself on what I know works. But instead want me to take a bunch of labotomies in a bottle that pharma paid to have some dude in a dress say is okay. I'll dig around an look fer that zip drive. And I can't grow cuz of cps. But I gotta git this wood cut and chopped first. It' gonna hit nasty in Missouri tomorrow!

No prob hoss. Get that wood cut.. Then we check out your vids..

 

[CaliRooted]

You should scope for mites

 

[PharmHand]

I'm having a little issue in my veg room, as soon as I put some plants into it, not all strains react but more sensitive strains like cookies and gg4, they start to do this strange leaf curl on new growth, they eventually grow out of it and fold completely open but something is up and I can't figure it out. As soon as I move plants out of this veg room, they start to go back to normal so I'm thinking its something environmental but I have some pics to share, hopefully someone has seen this before. The plants are healthy and growing very fast like normal but this leaf curl is really tough to figure out. Also, this is not bugs, broad mites or russet mites, I'm absolutely positive, I've scoped with multiple scopes and loop and there is nothing on the plants .

Link to video of plants:

I'm in coco, medium is in check @ 1.2 EC, PH between 5.8-6.2, temps in the room are 75 degrees and around 45-60% humidity. There is co2 running in the room as I'm circulating all the air from my flower room, through my veg and back through the flower room, just worked out best for me to keep the veg cooled. I was using a 315cmh but I switched it out recently for a t5 just to see if that made any difference and it doesn't seem to be. I had an oscillating fan on the wall but I took that down recently just to see if they were getting wind stress, I'm trying everything at this point.

My plants in the flower room are completely fine and thriving which is only a wall away and is sharing air with veg where the problem is, I've covered all untreated wood and all walls with panda paper, the floor has been sealed with a product called safe seal (prevents VOC's from leaking) and then I painted over it with a 0 VOC paint, I'm running a test right now with the water, have one plant on spring water from the store and the rest are on the water from place, which is run through a dechlorinator with KDF filter.

Also, I'm wondering if their is nothing wrong at all and the plants are just shading themselves to slow down a bit because they are growing so fast and root mass can't keep up with it. This guy explains this issue pretty well in this link below:
watch:

View attachment 774517 View attachment 774518 View attachment 774519 View attachment 774520 View attachment 774521

I had the IDENTICAL thing happen when I moved my plants from under reg mh veg room to cmh flower room. Happened within three days. I tried turning half of em off over the next 4 days they didn't uncurl so I ended putting them under some HPS and within a few days they uncurled. Not sure exactly what it was. Couldn't find much online other than bm damage or ra's but knew I didn't have them. Thought maybe off gassing since it was a new room so I put in a small exhaust and two charcoal filters. Next set I put in didn't curl. If your therm/hygrometer is correct (what it shows in video) I'd say the 90f and 40% rh is the likely culprit tho

 

[Thelight413]

I had the IDENTICAL thing happen when I moved my plants from under reg mh veg room to cmh flower room. Happened within three days. I tried turning half of em off over the next 4 days they didn't uncurl so I ended putting them under some HPS and within a few days they uncurled. Not sure exactly what it was. Couldn't find much online other than bm damage or ra's but knew I didn't have them. Thought maybe off gassing since it was a new room so I put in a small exhaust and two charcoal filters. Next set I put in didn't curl. If your therm/hygrometer is correct (what it shows in video) I'd say the 90f and 40% rh is the likely culprit tho

Yea I'm havin a tough time figuring it out, hygrometer is out of wack, it stays between 70-80 F in there and 40-60% humidity, its weird, when i remove them from this grow space and put them in a closet at my house (separate property), under the same 315 light, they go back to normal

 

[Thelight413]

You should scope for mites

Yea I have, its not mites or RA's, I'm certain

 

[Thelight413]

Humidity would be my guess, most plants can suffer a bit of heat if they have a good humidity, if not the leaves start to dry out and the leaves curl to save burning the upper surface, also give your root ball a quick look over.

humidity is in check though, 40-60%, the rootball however...does not look like it should, its not mangled and theres not RA's going around but the root growth is not the thick white growth I'm used to seeing

 

[PharmHand]

Yea I'm havin a tough time figuring it out, hygrometer is out of wack, it stays between 70-80 F in there and 40-60% humidity, its weird, when i remove them from this grow space and put them in a closet at my house (separate property), under the same 315 light, they go back to normal

You have rubber mats or anything rubber in there? Spray foam insulation anywhere near them? Anything painted with urethane paint? Vinyl tubing? Your room sealed or vented?