Leaf Discoloration & Spots! Worried! Mid Flower

alpacino.com · Apr 3, 2024

I feel like I have every leaf symptom possible. I feed Fox Farm Dirty Dozen as scheduled but at 50% watered down. Usually a ph only watering in between.

I’m on day 35 of flower and all of the leaves seem to be screaming something.

I’ve been careful to not over feed so maybe it’s deficiency of certain nutrients. Is it too much somehow - nutrient toxicity?

Things are going well but the lightening and yellowing is starting to creep up the plant I think.

Any ideas would be appreciated!

ArtfulCodger · Apr 3, 2024

What's the media?

budsofgeorgia · Apr 3, 2024

well im no expert grower but i would think if you been feeding it at half strength that it's hungry need feeding feel full strength , plant is pulling the nutes it needs from the bottom of the plant

alpacino.com · Apr 3, 2024

ArtfulCodger said:
What's the media?

Soil - 70% Fox Farm Ocean Forest 30% potting soil

3 gal pots
Mars Hydro Reflector 22

alpacino.com · Apr 3, 2024

budsofgeorgia said:
well im no expert grower but i would think if you been feeding it at half strength that it's hungry need feeding feel full strength , plant is pulling the nutes it needs from the bottom of the plant

Yeah that makes sense. It’s supposed to be extra “hungry” during flowering right?

Your thought is under feeding?

budsofgeorgia · Apr 3, 2024

alpacino.com said:
Yeah that makes sense. It’s supposed to be extra “hungry” during flowering right?

Your thought is under feeding?

yes sir

ArtfulCodger · Apr 3, 2024

It looks over-watered to me, based on the leaf texture. By that, I mean it's been watered too often. I would wait until the pot was very light and then water slowly to runoff...probably about a third of the pot volume...and then let it dry back until the pot is very light again. I'm skeptical about it being under fed. I see clawing and burned tips. Ocean Forest is pretty hot out of the bag, and that plant is relatively small in comparison to the media volume. I'd get an EC/ppm measurement on your runoff from the next watering to confirm. If it reads under 1,000 ppm/2.0 EC, then go ahead and feed. I'm guessing it will read higher.

alpacino.com · Apr 3, 2024

ArtfulCodger said:
It looks over-watered to me, based on the leaf texture. By that, I mean it's been watered too often. I would wait until the pot was very light and then water slowly to runoff...probably about a third of the pot volume...and then let it dry back until the pot is very light again. I'm skeptical about it being under fed. I see clawing and burned tips. Ocean Forest is pretty hot out of the bag, and that plant is relatively small in comparison to the media volume. I'd get an EC/ppm measurement on your runoff from the next watering to confirm. If it reads under 1,000 ppm/2.0 EC, then go ahead and feed. I'm guessing it will read higher.

Cool. I usually wait three days between waterings or feedings and weigh the pot on a scale (it will stop going down and feel lighter)
But is there a possibility that even though it gets light and dry (at least top inch) that it still has too much water down in the roots?

I'll water a plain ph'ed water when it's lighter (probably tomorrow). and check ppm (never done it before but have the tool).

If it's under 1000 though it should show that it is actually underfed right?
And if it's over 1000ppm then I should keep watering only plain water?

budsofgeorgia · Apr 3, 2024

i had plastic pots be bone dry the top 3 or 4 inches and bottom 3 or 4 inches be wet still , so i started weighing my pots if 32 oz goes in i do not weigh again until i have lost at 30 or more oz

Robert23howard · Apr 3, 2024

ArtfulCodger said:
It looks over-watered to me, based on the leaf texture. By that, I mean it's been watered too often. I would wait until the pot was very light and then water slowly to runoff...probably about a third of the pot volume...and then let it dry back until the pot is very light again. I'm skeptical about it being under fed. I see clawing and burned tips. Ocean Forest is pretty hot out of the bag, and that plant is relatively small in comparison to the media volume. I'd get an EC/ppm measurement on your runoff from the next watering to confirm. If it reads under 1,000 ppm/2.0 EC, then go ahead and feed. I'm guessing it will read higher.

I believe it is very hard to over water plants when they are in proper soil mixtures, soil is tended to along the grow ie. microbes added to soil, proper draining pots, correct amount of quality nutrients. The reason I say this is that we know scientifically that plants grow way faster hydroponically than they do in soil. Hydroponically the roots can be submerged in water the entire plants life as long as you have the proper amount of oxygen being pumped into the water. With that being said the proper soil with the proper drainage will always give your plants that oxygen it needs to thrive.

So I vote for following along more to the companies recommendations maybe a tad less or so and play with it along the plants life and you will know a bunch the next time.

ArtfulCodger · Apr 3, 2024

Watering every three days is too frequent for a plant that size in 3 gallons of Ocean Forest. The "top inch" test means nothing. Wait until the pot is very light, or you see straight-down droop in the lowers. Then water slowly to 10% runoff, so you know you've fully saturated the pot, and also so you have runoff to test for ppms. I don't know how the non-OF potting soil changes the water retention characteristics, but I'd guess you'll be waiting a week or more to water again.

ArtfulCodger · Apr 3, 2024

Robert23howard said:
I believe it is very hard to over water plants when they are in proper soil mixtures, soil is tended to along the grow ie. microbes added to soil, proper draining pots, correct amount of quality nutrients. The reason I say this is that we know scientifically that plants grow way faster hydroponically than they do in soil. Hydroponically the roots can be submerged in water their entire plants life as long as you have the proper amount of oxygen being pumped into the water. With that being said the proper soil with the proper drainage will always give your plants that oxygen it needs to thrive.

So I vote for following along more to the companies recommendations maybe a tad less or so and play with it along the plants life and you will know a bunch the next time.

I agree with a lot of this, but not the conclusion that you can't over-water in "good" soil. Ocean Forest is hypoxic at field capacity, due to its water retention characteristics. There isn't enough air in the root ball when it's saturated...that's why you get over-watering symptoms (like in the OP's pics) if you don't let it dry back sufficiently. It's also why you'll often get a growth spurt a couple days after a watering...the roots can breathe again.

alpacino.com · Apr 3, 2024

budsofgeorgia said:
i had plastic pots be bone dry the top 3 or 4 inches and bottom 3 or 4 inches be wet still , so i started weighing my pots if 32 oz goes in i do not weigh again until i have lost at 30 or more oz

Yeah makes sense. I have them in fabric grow bags so no sure how to safely measure moisture in the bottom half.

But I agree weigh will be the way to go.

Would you say the top inch should be bone dry or just pretty dry? Assuming the weighing adds up.

Robert23howard · Apr 3, 2024

ArtfulCodger said:
I

ArtfulCodger said:
I agree with a lot of this, but not the conclusion that you can't over-water in "good" soil. Ocean Forest is hypoxic at field capacity, due to its water retention characteristics. There isn't enough air in the root ball when it's saturated...that's why you get over-watering symptoms (like in the OP's pics) if you don't let it dry back sufficiently. It's also why you'll often get a growth spurt a couple days after a watering...the roots can breathe again.

I have definitely seen a rootball that was rotted because it was pretty much submerged in a pot that offered little to no drainage and the water had no place to go! Yes the rootball can absolutely be drowned if the soil doesn’t contain proper draining additives like a perlite, coco, etc… along with a pot that allows for additional water to be expelled. If you do ensure these 2 things are good to go the chance for overwatering is definitely difficult.

plumsmooth · Apr 4, 2024

How cold is it?

alpacino.com · Apr 4, 2024

ArtfulCodger said:
Watering every three days is too frequent for a plant that size in 3 gallons of Ocean Forest. The "top inch" test means nothing. Wait until the pot is very light, or you see straight-down droop in the lowers. Then water slowly to 10% runoff, so you know you've fully saturated the pot, and also so you have runoff to test for ppms. I don't know how the non-OF potting soil changes the water retention characteristics, but I'd guess you'll be waiting a week or more to water again.

I see what you’re saying. Here are two examples of how the leaves droop before I water usually. I worry to let them droop much more. Would love to hear your thoughts

alpacino.com · Apr 4, 2024

plumsmooth said:
How cold is it?

Lights on 73-77
Lights off 60-66

Trying to keep humidity at 40-50

ArtfulCodger · Apr 4, 2024

alpacino.com said:
I see what you’re saying. Here are two examples of how the leaves droop before I water usually. I worry to let them droop much more. Would love to hear your thoughts

That's more droop than I want to see. Dehydration droop moves up the plant from the bottom, so when I see it in my lower growth, I know I should have watered a day earlier. Watering volume is an important variable. People assume "over-watering" means giving too much water at once, when it's really about watering frequency. In a peat-based soil like Ocean Forest or Happy Frog, I'm aiming for a saturated pot. For me, that requires watering slowly to runoff...usually takes between a quarter and a third of the pot volume. Then I dry back, aiming to water again the day before the straight-down droop shows up in the lowers. If I go a day too long, it's not the end of the world.

alpacino.com · Apr 4, 2024

ArtfulCodger said:
That's more droop than I want to see. Dehydration droop moves up the plant from the bottom, so when I see it in my lower growth, I know I should have watered a day earlier. Watering volume is an important variable. People assume "over-watering" means giving too much water at once, when it's really about watering frequency. In a peat-based soil like Ocean Forest or Happy Frog, I'm aiming for a saturated pot. For me, that requires watering slowly to runoff...usually takes between a quarter and a third of the pot volume. Then I dry back, aiming to water again the day before the straight-down droop shows up in the lowers. If I go a day too long, it's not the end of the world.

Alright thanks for that! I’ll maybe water less volume at a time but more frequently.

I think I’m gonna do a water only water today and then when it dries again I’ll feed 100% of the week 9 nutes. Does that make sense?

Asmodeus · Apr 4, 2024

alpacino.com said:
I see what you’re saying. Here are two examples of how the leaves droop before I water usually. I worry to let them droop much more. Would love to hear your thoughts

Man dont let em get that droopy dry. In 3 gallon pots at about five weeks in flower, those are probably real light at 2 to 3 days

Leaf Discoloration & Spots! Worried! Mid Flower

Leaf Discoloration & Spots! Worried! Mid Flower

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