Leaf serrations curling up?

Capulator · Aug 4, 2011

it might even be a calcium deficiency. Very early and hard to tell. Ill take a picture tomrrow and hopefully someone can pinpoint.

phenotyper · Aug 4, 2011

I came this thread to add that it looks like a calcium deficiency/lockout. Although the other factors people discussed are certainly worth investigating as well.

crom · Aug 4, 2011

I believe that when the plant can't transpire through it's stomata nothing is getting absorbed at the tops of the plant. I mean maybe it is I don't know for sure, but it would appear that when the stomata are open then it allows for a straw type of affect that draws the nutes/h2o up the stalk distributing the h2o/nutes along the way. When the stomata are closed I don't believe this is happening. It's like a traffic jam and the nutes are just waiting to get distributed when the stomata reopen. Kinda like sucking on a drink straw with the top burned closed lol These are theories and not law, as I' m not a botanist, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express next to a college once!

Stomata are open when there is:
-High light
-Low CO2
-High Humidity

Stomata are closed when there is:
-Too much CO2
-Low humidity
-A dry root system

Did you do any spraying in the recent past that could have clogged the stomata? If so maybe a spraying of the leaves is needed to "wash" the leaves undersides??

-Too much Ca,N,K can lock out Mg.
-High EC slows the water evaporation and will also diminish Mg availability.
Also if your root zone is too wet and cold or too acidic and cold Mg can be locked out.

I would also keep your RH between 40-60% during bloom.

Cheers,
Crom

Capulator · Aug 4, 2011

I know you have to run higher temps to fully utilize co2 injection. I knwo that other farmers on here run strains at 70%rh.

I think that its all about the strain. They all need a different climate.

I turned the dehuey on last night, and took temps down, killed the co 2 for now, and changed the water after a flush. I cant raise my lights. they are all the way up there already. my temp gun registers 79-80 on the tips that are closest to the light.

Capulator · Aug 4, 2011

crom,

I sprayed them all down with ro water last night, thinking I coudl raise the humidity before you said it may be that the humidity is too high... So maybe I inadvertently helped rinse the stomata.

-High light: I dont know I need a light meter. MY plants are 18" from the bulb, 600 w.

-low co2: I was running at 1200 when this was happening.

-High humidity: Not sure. I thought that for day 22, 55 was ok...

-dry roots: No. Short cycle timer waters 5 min on and 20 off. Plant are in 3/8" lava, and cant be over watered. Water temp chilled to 65 degrees.

crom · Aug 4, 2011

Hmm I hear ya man, sounds good?? I'm just tossing out ideas out there. I doubt it's your light distance. I think what it means is that your plants can only grow as fast as your most limiting factor(CO2,nutes,temps/rh,light), but you sound like your doing everything right. Maybe it was a stomata clog issue?? Did you use neem or anything to spray the undersides of the leaves? I don't use CO2 but I believe you don't have to run higher temps, just that you can allow higher temps then when not using CO2. BUT again I never dabbled in CO2, one day when I feel I met all the other needs. I use a 5x5 tent w/ a 600w HPS in a xxxl(not aircooled) and my plants get around that close to the light with no issues. My Rh is usually around 45% on avarage. Are your plants pot bound? How about some updated pictures lol I wanna figure this out lol

Capulator · Aug 5, 2011

I sprayed with reverse adn saturade abotu 7 days ago. I am thinking now that may have been it. It looks like a calcium deficiency. I only sprayed to keep my og 18 from spittign nanners, cuz thats what she likes to do on occasion.

take a look:

Capulator · Aug 5, 2011

To me,

this canopy is still crushing it.

I am pretty sure it was a combo of:

1) POssible clogged stomata
2) not enough Ca (I thought about this and I have two mag drive pumps, and I am thinking I remember something abotu mag drives depleting Ca.)

3) not sure abotu them being too close to the light, or too high of RH, but not rH is around 49 so that should help if it was an issue.

Canopy temp is now ranging from 74 to 77. Plants drank abotu 10-15 gallons last night. Abotu what they shoudl be doing for right now.

I will continue to monitor and update this grow so we can all try to learn something.

Another farmer early in the thread (started with an "s" and I cant remember) said that his plants woudl taco at the serration before a nute lockout... I believe he could be right, adn that coudl be a first warnign sign.

Capulator · Aug 7, 2011

plants are drinking lots now. temp at 77. Rh at 48.

Damage looks like it has stopped spreading.

crom · Aug 7, 2011

Looking healthy reguardless! I guess you will see what happens. Best of luck brotha! Hope I helped :)

Cheers,
Crom

IronLung D9 · Aug 7, 2011

looks good for sure... im thinking it was a temp/ humidity issue
IL

Steel Erection · Aug 7, 2011

I had leaf curl a little more severe at the beginning of this last run. I raised my humidity and the curl stopped. Benn keepin my RH between 60-65% gonna drop it to about 45 in week 8-SE

Capulator · Aug 7, 2011

I am not sure if it was the rh or the temps, because I changed a lot of variables at once. I dont have the patience or the cajones to change one thing at a time.

WAS:

Running at 82 degrees with 1250 ppm co2
RH at 55.
Plenty of air flow, with 3 air exchanges per light cycle, and fresh air all night.
Symptoms started right before scheduled res change.

NOW:
Running at 77 degrees with no co2 (will be adding co2 again tomorrow)
RH at around 48
Same air flow.

After first signs of leaf curl, Did a flush for 48 hours with some clearex, followed by a res change

Noticed 2 days after leaf curl, some spots indicative of cal def.

Added around 5mL of cal mag to the res change. Thinking I need to add cal mag between weekly changes, because I am running 4 mag drive pumps in the same res.

If anyone has additional thoughts/comments on this, I would love to hear.

Also was at week 4. Am I supposed to now tone doen on the cal mag and add epsom salt for the extra Mg instead? I think I read somewhere that plants use more Mg than Ca after week 4..

cannanewb · Jun 21, 2016

I have 5 White Widow on the go 8 days above the pro-mix and 1 just started doing the same thing, fan is blowing on them, humidity is in the low 40's temp is low 70's to 81 and I am not sure what is doing it but could feel the heat on my hand when I held it under the light and it appeared to be a little much to me so I raised it a bit, hopefully later tonight or tomorrow morning things will ba back to normal. It isn't really old enough to be lacking some nutes is it.

hermit186 · Jun 22, 2016

Cap I live where the temp can be 50 one day a 100 the next and the humidity swings a lot.
That said the spots and color change is a Cal thing for me.
The upturned leafs are the thing I see it twice a year spring and fall.
It happens when Humidity and temperature do one of there cold to hot. When it goes the other way they kinda droop a little the next day.

The first few times I went crazy with what to do Sea suggested a cal-mag spray and I use Liquid light and soap.
After the second year of it I spray with LL+soap and a bit of my own cal mixture which I got from Sea. 5:1

Once it happened when I was flushing back in the day when I did just RO+sweet(now I keep nutrients in the mix at low % till last 5 days) that next morning it was the first day of a cooker heat wave. It was also the day they looked like a shell for a cigar.
Weather that relates to your situation I truly don't know
Because I uses your Ideas on nutrients and have not gone to just salts yet, you, Sea ,Cocojoe and much reading My stuff looks like yours before that I was kidding myself. The rest of the clan have help a lot.
Good Luck.

Smegal · Apr 24, 2017

It's none of the above. It's just transpiration. They are growing fast and the plant is in overdrive. It will be ok. My plants do that all the time. It had me worried too at first but jib and Dr mcskunkins helped me straighten it out.

PharmHand · Apr 24, 2017

Smegal said:
It's none of the above. It's just transpiration. They are growing fast and the plant is in overdrive. It will be ok. My plants do that all the time. It had me worried too at first but jib and Dr mcskunkins helped me straighten it out.

Transpiration yes.... Transpiration PROBLEM. The plant won't die but it's definitely not ideal. Vpd is too high the plant is transpiring more than what the roots are accustomed to supplying so the plant is reducing the surface area of leaves excessively transpiring . You could lower temps ,raise humidity , reduce air movement and lower your ec to flatten the leaves back out. Like @hermit186 said it happens when the change occurs rapidly and the plant hasn't had time to adapt. A plant leaf in dry conditions develops a thicker cuticle to reduce water loss which takes some time. Look at the color of the newest growth when your lights first come on. Light green indicates moisture needs were met the previous day. Darker green indicates otherwise. I realize it had been answered a few times already just thought I'd throw in some extra info. Peace:)

Smegal · Apr 25, 2017

Always looking for more info, makes me a better grower. Thanks!

Thejoeybrown · Jul 25, 2017

@Capulator i know this is super old but upon reasearching this exact issue I came across this. The first pic I've found that is identical to what I got. Also right around the same time when you started this thread. Any info on how it worked out for you?

Capulator · Aug 10, 2017

RH is most likely too low @Thejoeybrown

Leaf serrations curling up?

Leaf serrations curling up?

Capulator

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phenotyper

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Capulator

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Leaf serrations curling up?

Leaf serrations curling up?

Capulator

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phenotyper

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