Learned My Lesson About Ph Adjustment In Organic Soil

[Mr. Molecule]

And that lesson was: Do it every time, bucko.

I've got a history of professional indoor cultivation, but outdoor work still holds a few mysteries for me. I did my biggest outdoor grow ever this year and went with organics. However, when it came to the decision of whether to balance feed solutions and water to 6.3, I relied on that old adage I've heard so often: "Hey, relax... when you're growing in organic soil, don't worry about adjusting the pH—the soil will self-regulate."

Only problem was, this time it didn't. My tap water here is 8.2.-8.4 in the summer, and I was watering with it and using it as the water in all my feedings. Everything went well until about two weeks into flowering, when I started getting yellowing leaves and leaf drop. I believe it was due to K getting locked out by high soil pH.

I quickly realized what was happening (and I'm thankful for that) and immediately started setting all my water and solutions to 6.3. The yellowing and leaf drop stopped, and things are going to be okay, but I'm sure I lost potential yield.

This was a bit confusing because I have done a limited bit of outdoor growing in containers in the past and didn't worry about balancing pH, and this didn't happen those times. Thus lulling me into a state of false security about it this time.

Anyway, this near-disaster convinced me that controlling the pH of all input is needed even in an organic system (for me, anyway... I appreciate that a lot of people don't do it and don't have problems. But I had problems).

 

[lazyfarma420]

I grow organically outdoor guerrilla I'm on tje east coast n and the water is about 7.8 ph I never Phd my water I only have 3 harvest under my belt with 4 plants each years but got 2 lbs every year so far ph has never bin a issue as I've never checked it 1 time yellow does happen earlier than chem nutes because it takes a little longer to reach the roots but that's nothing a little guano tea wouldn't fix but also leaves simple die off on there own from old age but if it was a lock out sum epson salt would fix that also if your ph is high squeeze a lemon in your water

 

[darkmadder]

Glad you figured it out...that being said I've grown organically indoors for two decades without ph'ing. My schedule is feed/water/tea etc maybe that helps my situation. I think weekly beneficial microbes teas are the key.

 

[happy b]

Your problems arose as you know because of the high ph of your tap water.most tap water is alot lower and is USUALLY fine for organics.i use organics and i dont ph coz im lazy but it phing in organic soil isnt such a bad idea imo.my problem was adjusting the ph without using chemicals.

 

[Seamaiden]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees that particular pH paradigm as being bullshit. I'm sorry you learned the hard way.

 

[ArcticOrange]

Microbes go a long way to buffer PH but I have a big unhappy gal right now that will agree with you Mr. Molecule.

 

[outwest]

Are you using something to buffer pH (like lime) in your soil mix? This could be your problem.

outwest

 

[Blaze]

Soil is more forgiving with pH to a point. Water at 8.0+ will definitely cause a lot of problems as you found out. Something to buffer pH like outwest mentioned is a good idea. If your water has a pH that is out of the acceptable range definitely adjust it every time before you water. I've got a friend who has a pH of 8.2 on his well and came up with an interesting idea using a dose-a-tron and pH down to adjust his irrigation water 'on the fly' when he irrigates.

It is always good to check your soil pH once in a while as well to make sure it stays in range - plants release hydrogen ions into the soil as they uptake nutrients, so soil pH will change over time.

If you need to adjust your soil pH outdoors, do it slowly and several months in advance. For example, if you suspect you have a pH issue, test it now, during the fall and apply your lime or whatever you are going to use over the winter to the soil has many months to balance out.

 

[Goodolboy]

My well water is at 7.8 I've never had a problem 4 years strong. Threw that pH meter in the trash once I switched complete and I stress the completely part. If your using any synthetics with your organic grow you are killing all your microbes which regulate your soil life. Also did you use a pH stabilizer like dolomite lime or green sand ? This isn't new knowledge old schoolers have been doing it for years and thankfully enough I was blessed to learn from some of those guys. I don't pH inside anymore either . Not my rockwool cuts not my moms not my veg and not my bloom room. I run coco and 100% organics . If you learn how to use the soil it will make things easier and your plants will look and yield better. If you don't believe me I can throw up a few pics. Either way glad everything worked out for ya have a happy safe harvest to all !

 

[outwest]

If your soil is buffered and your water pH is between 5 and 8 you'll probably be fine. I don't own a pH pen and my plants are all in perfect health. I'm in a rural area with fluctuating water quality and have yet to have pH issues in my recycled organic soil mix.

outwest

 

[Underthesun]

I'm watering with compost teas every watering or every other so ph'ing would be a waste of time and money for me, since you can't test the ph of compost tea and it fluctuates. I keep my soil ph in check instead.

 

[faster]

Thanks @Mr. Molecule

3 year old thread but I ran exactly into the same problem....growing outside in 7gallon fabric pots

Plants stopped growing and yellow leaves popped up...all due to nutrients lockout.

My water is same as yours, 8.0 to 8.5

So I pH it BEFORE making tea

 

[Winter323]

I have some giants 6' plants in 40-60 gallons no-till mix, that have been getting teas in the 2-3 (red drop range), and even taking 2 gallons of 2.0 EC tea, 3 gallons of water, 50 mls Rhizo and 50 mls GH PH down, they are still in the red range on the ph meter (4 or less).

My plants though literally look like the healthiest plants you could have, 3-4" stocks on some of them. Granted I probably should have flowered them 2 months ago so there is that lol but you cant rush perfection lol...

I am going to try to balance the heavily citrus teas with lime/aerating but growth doesn't seem to be a problem and in the past I feel adding too much PH up or down, especially in cases like this isnt worth it because it effects the EC too much, end up feedind the plants 30% PH UP/DOWN per watering. I fondly remember the days of adding too much PH UP then too much PH DOWN and ending up with 3.0 EC lol... =/.

 

[HaulinOats]

This 1000000000%!
My girls have been slowly choked out by our ~8.4pH city water... all beacause I bought into the "no Ph Bro" myth.
Here's my grow.


If I get this thing corrected, I'm going to be on a mission to keep this from happening to other people.

And that lesson was: Do it every time, bucko.
"Hey, relax... when you're growing in organic soil, don't worry about adjusting the pH—the soil will self-regulate."

Only problem was, this time it didn't. My tap water here is 8.2.-8.4 in the summer, and I was watering with it and using it as the water in all my feedings. Everything went well until about two weeks into flowering, when I started getting yellowing leaves and leaf drop. I believe it was due to K getting locked out by high soil pH.

 

[AnonymousShaman]

This 1000000000%!
My girls have been slowly choked out by our ~8.4pH city water... all beacause I bought into the "no Ph Bro" myth.
Here's my grow.


If I get this thing corrected, I'm going to be on a mission to keep this from happening to other people.

It looks like you used chemical nutrients, am I correct? If so, complete organic growing will have less issues. There are too many variables to say you will have no issues, but definitely less issues.

 

[SacredTreeOrganicFarms]

Yooo you guys should check out my Organic thread! Been looking for other organic living soil growers forever on here! Any/everything is helpful!

Welcome to Sequoyah Cannabis Co! Follow our journey!

Here is my grow! All organic, no synthetic anything, and all organic pesticides IF needed. Not my first run but definitely the farthest point I’ve got to! I’ve got wedding cake, blueberry lemon headband, stardawg, strawberry guava (my biggest lady), and Mac & cheese #8. I’m running (2)4x4 tents...

www.thcfarmer.com

 

[BowHammer]

Glad you got it figured out, I water my outdoor with collected rain water it’s around 6.3 14 ppm

 

[BowHammer]

Glad you figured it out...that being said I've grown organically indoors for two decades without ph'ing. My schedule is feed/water/tea etc maybe that helps my situation. I think weekly beneficial microbes teas are the key.

They are for sure make dem teas!

 

[Flexnerb]

And that lesson was: Do it every time, bucko.

I've got a history of professional indoor cultivation, but outdoor work still holds a few mysteries for me. I did my biggest outdoor grow ever this year and went with organics. However, when it came to the decision of whether to balance feed solutions and water to 6.3, I relied on that old adage I've heard so often: "Hey, relax... when you're growing in organic soil, don't worry about adjusting the pH—the soil will self-regulate."

Only problem was, this time it didn't. My tap water here is 8.2.-8.4 in the summer, and I was watering with it and using it as the water in all my feedings. Everything went well until about two weeks into flowering, when I started getting yellowing leaves and leaf drop. I believe it was due to K getting locked out by high soil pH.

I quickly realized what was happening (and I'm thankful for that) and immediately started setting all my water and solutions to 6.3. The yellowing and leaf drop stopped, and things are going to be okay, but I'm sure I lost potential yield.

This was a bit confusing because I have done a limited bit of outdoor growing in containers in the past and didn't worry about balancing pH, and this didn't happen those times. Thus lulling me into a state of false security about it this time.

Anyway, this near-disaster convinced me that controlling the pH of all input is needed even in an organic system (for me, anyway... I appreciate that a lot of people don't do it and don't have problems. But I had problems).

I grow organically outdoor guerrilla I'm on tje east coast n and the water is about 7.8 ph I never Phd my water I only have 3 harvest under my belt with 4 plants each years but got 2 lbs every year so far ph has never bin a issue as I've never checked it 1 time yellow does happen earlier than chem nutes because it takes a little longer to reach the roots but that's nothing a little guano tea wouldn't fix but also leaves simple die off on there own from old age but if it was a lock out sum epson salt would fix that also if your ph is high squeeze a lemon in your water

This ph thing as expressed by the OP's issue i would say was caused by too much alkalinity added to the soil via the alkalinity in the water thus raising the ph of the soil im sure to a crazy high level. If your ph is 8 to 8.5 or higher the more bicarbonate will be present....bicarb is not soils friend...hydro maybe. Not soil! Lil is ok...using it as a ph adjuster in soil will have you flushing more...

Ph below 8 to 8.5 will be more caco3 dominant in the alkalinity dept. Alkalinity is more important than ph. Because the more alkalinity we have in our water the more issues we create when it comes to high ph in out system...

Point here is op's alkalinity is higher, no doubt in my mind, just based off the ph of the water...the second problem op has is bicarb build up. Big time no no! Unless you plan on flowering a 6 to 8 week varietal. Then its an issues just not as huge if it were a 10 to 12 week varietal. Bicarb buildbup its lil more difficult to remove versus caco3 build up. If anyone has me wrong id like yo see how im wrong

As you see in these 2 posts i present to you

 

[AnonymousShaman]

Hi all, this is a response from my organic tea manufacturer after I had some minor issues with my early flower and noticed the PH in my feed was reaching as low as 5ph (down from 7-7.5 before adding their organic tea)

"This pH range is very normal, BioCANNA nutrients do contain lots of fruit acids, depending on water source sometimes it will get even lower.

In organics, pH is almost irrelevant, as the nutrients are not provided in ionic form (directly plant available). By definition organic growing relies on micro organism to breakdown/convert the fertilizer into plant available nutrients (mineralization). Whether the pH of the solution is 4.0 or that it is 8.0

As well, also by definition the growing medium sets the working pH, not the nutrients. The pH buffer of soils is always much stronger than that of the nutrients being applied. Assuming your soil is of good quality, its pH is set to be between 5.2 and 6.5 no matter what pH your water is, within minutes after watering, the liquid held will be that of the growing medium.

Many growers bend their minds around achieving some pH perfection, but it pretty much is a placebo effect for anyone growing outside of a pure hydroponic system in a very inert growing medium.

The main thing to look at is that BioCANNA nutrients are designed to work with our BioTerraPro growing medium which contains some level of fertilization but also a very good supply of liming material. Which does set the pH where it needs to be as well as supply calcium and magnesium. Foxfarm has a very good reputation, but unfortunately I have no data on the content.

Pistil burn is more often caused by excess wind, dry air and radiant heat (sometimes by accidental severe under watering, like reaching wilting point). Very unlikely that this would be from too much/too little nutrients or bad pH."

Take from that what you will, but they seem a decent company. Awesome product.