Leaves Curling And Folding

[Irish063]

could you help give me some thoughts on what wrong. It's one of the few plants that is showing some deficiencies. I thought maybe it was a cal/mag defeciency but that has not helped correct the problem over a few feedings. Here are some photos


Also in the 3rd photo there is still some red streaking on stems. It was on the main stem but it seems to have gone.

 

[DrMcSkunkins]

Hay, you see any thrips or earwigs run down into your top dressing when you turn your lights on?
Your straw may have a low ph of below 5 and may cause your soil to have ph spikes.
The hay is also a perfect hiding spot for pests.
I would remove it and top dress with sand if you need a top dressing, jmo.

 

[Irish063]

Good thoughts. i haven't seen anything run down into it but with them outside in the greenhouse they may hide before I get out there to open it up. I'll have to check.
I did remove this fan leaf last night and saw this but I can't tell what they are. The cheap magnifying glass that I have doesn't do much. They don't move though and looked there might be some webbing but hard to tell. Was thinking maybe spider mites but I'll have to wait until I can zoom in more on them.

Interesting. didn't realize Straw could lower the pH. I had it on during the summer to help keep the soil cool because we had such a hot summer this year. It was a top Jorge Cervantes gave on one of his videos.
I was thinking maybe it would act as an insulator no that the temps have cooled down quite a bit. May hunk about taking it off.

Thanks for the help

 

[DrMcSkunkins]

This is what spider mites look like up close, if it is them, a product called green cleaner will knock them out no problem. Just be sure if you use it not to use it in the day or it will burn your plants.

 

[Irish063]

Thanks I appreciate it.

 

[Seamaiden]

Doc, you mite want to circle the one mite in that photo. I don't see a lot of sign of spider mites, but there are definitely some sort of bug in that plant. I find myself wondering about fungus gnats.

The leaf looks physically scorched and the plant appears to have gone through a heavy revegging period, and that reveg can cause weird twisting and leaf deformation as well. She could use a little cleaning up on the insides, too.

 

[Irish063]

@Seamaiden, thanks. Sorry that last photo probably wasn't the best to use. That particular leaf had been off for over 24 hours before I took the picture. Meant to look at it under the microscope and got side tracked with family stuff.
Unfortunately, all of those pics were uploaded from my phone.
Overall the rest of the plant looks pretty healthy(at least to me, still new to growing).
I found what I think might be the problem/culprit and will post that later when I can use my comp.

Not sure about the Revegging. They had a pretty constant light cycle but again still new do maybe. I tapered down the extra light I have in the green house and have them on a 12/12 time now. They all seem to be doing well in early flowering. Just took some more photos a moment ago.

As far as cleaning up I wasn't sure how much to do since they all have a ton of pre flowering and early flowering sites going on. Not sure what will take away from the final results.

 

[Irish063]

So here are some better pictures. They are zoomed in on my phone. Forgot to get a better magnifying glass at the store today. I'm thinking there may be 2 different pests going on. I found something that may have been just a random bug and couldn't get the best pic of it. from what I could see it was black and tear drop shaped. Unfortunately, it is hard to see in these photos.
The second pest is what I think is a spider mite. Looks pretty close to the photo Dr.McSkunkins shared.

So the first pic is just an overall pic of the plant.
next are close ups of the pests.
The spider mite first.
The next in the large oval Im assuming are larva of the spider mite.
The last small circle is the unknown critter. Again it may not be anything. Black tear dropped shaped.

A friend of mine gave me some Azamite from General Hydroponics or would Green Cleaner like Dr.McSkunk suggested.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[Seamaiden]

This is weird. You definitely have bugs in there, but your plants don't appear to be showing signs of spider mites. Yet that's the first thing I would think seeing those things. And the tiny black bug kinda looks like a flea beetle to me, but I've only had those on Cucurbits, they never moved over to my cannabis.

While the plant looks to be in great condition, I wouldn't want bugs in my buds, so I'm kind of leaning towards a Spinosad/isopropyl route here. I'd like to know what others have to say on this, too.

@Seamaiden, thanks. Sorry that last photo probably wasn't the best to use. That particular leaf had been off for over 24 hours before I took the picture. Meant to look at it under the microscope and got side tracked with family stuff.
Unfortunately, all of those pics were uploaded from my phone.
Overall the rest of the plant looks pretty healthy(at least to me, still new to growing).
I found what I think might be the problem/culprit and will post that later when I can use my comp.

Not sure about the Revegging. They had a pretty constant light cycle but again still new do maybe. I tapered down the extra light I have in the green house and have them on a 12/12 time now. They all seem to be doing well in early flowering. Just took some more photos a moment ago.

As far as cleaning up I wasn't sure how much to do since they all have a ton of pre flowering and early flowering sites going on. Not sure what will take away from the final results.

Ok, let's deal with the cleaning up since she's not ready for harvest. Insides, anything smaller than a nickel, and anything that's heavily shaded needs to be removed. If you look up how Medjool dates are farmed, you'll start to get an idea of what's going on. Basically the principle is this: the plant only has so much energy to spend, question is where is it gonna spend it? We'd like it to spend its energy on the best flowers, so by removing those poor sites we're forcing the plant's choices here.

Revegging is when one has taken a flowering plant and pushed it back to vegetative growth cycle. It's a 6 week process in my experience, once you see triple-lobed leaves growing, to get back to normal growth. This can heavily and seriously impact bud production and quality and is one of the main reasons I don't like growing from clone except inside.

 

[Irish063]

good to know. I knew there was something going on but wasn't exactly sure what might be going on.
Would the isopropyl be for drying them out? Do you dilute it at all or just pure alcohol?

Thanks I'll look up the dates thing. I've seen a lot of people really trim their plants down so it focuses on a few areas of producing during flowering. I just wasn't sure since some are in early flowering. Didn't want it to shock the plant.

Yeah I'm wanting to grow from seed on the next go round.

 

[DrMcSkunkins]

Doc, you mite want to circle the one mite in that photo. I don't see a lot of sign of spider mites, but there are definitely some sort of bug in that plant. I find myself wondering about fungus gnats.

The leaf looks physically scorched and the plant appears to have gone through a heavy revegging period, and that reveg can cause weird twisting and leaf deformation as well. She could use a little cleaning up on the insides, too.

The main things on that pic were the egg sacs, they look like little pearls. All of the other spider mite pics I found had very few if any eggs in them and the eggs are usually the second thing you see after the initial light colored speckling on the tops of the fan leaves.
If you see eggs and catch them early they arent hard to get rid of, I plan on working on a water/oil/alcohol mix when my green cleaner runs out to see if I can avoid buying more.

 

[Irish063]

I definitely tossed that fan leaf out away from the greenhouse. I didn't see any others on the plant as I combed through it. Sure I could have missed them.
Still debating if I want to use the Azamax my friend leant me. I need to do something soon. Just don't want to fry my girls.

I'm guessing for the oil you are planning on using Neem? I read some other threads on hear that people used a little dawn with that as well to act as a surfactant for the been and also dried out the critters and larva.

 

[DrMcSkunkins]

I was going to try soybean oil, the active ingredient in green cleaner.
Azamax won't burn your plants if you use it in the dark and fan dry them before the lights come back on

 

[DrMcSkunkins]

Alcohol would have to be added very sparingly or it will burn the leaves. I will probably start out with one ml of oil and alcohol to a quart of water and work my way up

 

[Irish063]

Sounds like a good plan. Interesting that soybean oil is the active ingredient. wouldn't have expected that.

Yeah that's how I was recommended to use it. I'm hesitant though because it is so strong and plus the girls are in early/beginning of flowering and I don't want to hurt them. I was just reading on some old threads in here how you can taste it on the bud still after it's cured. :(

Stopping by my local hydro store tomorrow and see if they have green cleaner.
Starting to signs on other plants besides just that one now. ( freaking out). I know it happens to a lot of people. It's just how my mind works.

 

[DrMcSkunkins]

After researching a few different diy recipes I think I will try 10ml of 91% alcohol, soybean oil and NON antibacterial dish soap 15ml each mixed with a quart of water if I ever see the little buggers again.

 

[Irish063]

May have to try that. I'll see what is available and if not I may mix that up and let you know what the results were

 

[dreamofgreen]

you should grow some plants in your green house that repel insects. i think dill is one that works to keep spider mites away.
what ever you choose to use to get rid of them, make sure you do a thorough covering and do multiple times to be sure to stop their life cycle.

 

[Seamaiden]

good to know. I knew there was something going on but wasn't exactly sure what might be going on.
Would the isopropyl be for drying them out? Do you dilute it at all or just pure alcohol?

Thanks I'll look up the dates thing. I've seen a lot of people really trim their plants down so it focuses on a few areas of producing during flowering. I just wasn't sure since some are in early flowering. Didn't want it to shock the plant.

Yeah I'm wanting to grow from seed on the next go round.

I like to mix the iso 1:1, but others will dilute it much more, something like 1T/gal water. I really don't know how it works against the mites, just that it's very effective immediately, but must be reapplied every 2-3 days for at least two weeks, because it doesn't stick around, once it's evaporated it's gone.

Doc is right about the pure alcohol, I've made the mistake.

 

[Irish063]

Great.
@DrMcSkunkins I was going to ask your thoughts on anacillin from garlic. Looks like there is a patent filed on it. Wasn't sure if it would leave the plants smelling like garlic. It's a great anti- everything for humans. That patent is for on plants fruiting and non fruiting.