Leaves yellowing the curling and burning.

[VapeIt]

Leaves yellowing then curling and burning.

Is this a deficiency of some type? It starts as a lime green/yellowing and then becomes like a burn. It is affecting the upper leaves. Lights are air cooled and not hot to the touch. First I thought it was light bleaching. Also, the plants are half the size as they were at this point last round.

The first pic is a week ago, the second is the progression.

Thanks for any help.



Hydro Growers:
1. Are you growing from seed or clones? Clones
2. How old are your plants? 28 days into 12/12
3. How tall are your plants? 3'
4. What type of hydro system are you using? Ebb&Gro buckets - Hydroton
5. What brand/type of nutrients are you using? House and Garden
6. What is the Ph of your nutrient solution? 5.8
7. What is the PPM/EC of your tap water? RO Water - 0 PPM
8. What is the PPM/EC of your nutrient solution? EC 1.6
9. What is the temperature of your nutrient solution? 72*F
10. Does your PPM/EC show a rise or fall when you do your daily PPM check? PPM same or slight rise
11. Does your pH show a rise or fall when you do your daily check? Slight rise
12. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything? no
13. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights") HPS 600W x 6
14. How close are your lights to the plants? 12"- 16"
15. What size is your grow space in square feet? 150 sq ft.
16. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space? 75-85*F - 50%
17. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space? None
18. How much experience do you have growing? 4th grow.

 

[hiboy]

Being ur 4th grow u have some knowledge and experience. Has your last grows done this also, Have you changed anything from your past grows. Is it the same strain?
\hiboy

 

[VapeIt]

A few small changes.
Last time, my clones were in 4x4 RW blocks before going into the Hydroton. This time, I used 5" netpots with Hydroton for the clones. Then when ready, I put the netpot w rocks into the buckets. More than one person said this would be fine and that the roots would grow without trouble.

This round I used a small amount of Bushmaster that was a sample from the hydro store. I used much less than specified. That was @ a week ago.

This round I think I have better control of my temps and Co2 dispersion.

From this chart, it looks to be a Sulfer or Zinc deficiency. I may have had my nutes too strong in week 2, and locked something out?

The first 2 grows were nothing to write about, many problems and changes from those first 2 runs. My 3rd run, the one before this was great.

 

[KAL EL]

Looks like you need magnesium really bad. Add some epsom salt to your water. 1 Tablespoon to a gallon of water should do fine.

 

[VapeIt]

I do use Cal/Mag since I use RO. 5ml sometimes 10ml per Gal.
Sometimes I also added a tsp Epson Salt to my Foliar spray. I haven't foliared since budding 2 weeks ago though.

I will add Epsom salt to the res tomorrow.

It doesn't look like Zinc or Sulfer?

Thanks.

 

[hiboy]

In my cubes i run in flower -sensi a/b or pureblend pro bloom, carbo load, liquid karma, b52, protek silicate, big bud,monster bloom,mothers tea, hygrozyme every other water change, roots accel till the 5th week. Overdrive 7&8 week. Never had a lock out. Wanted to give you an example of another nute schedule , awesome reults.
hiboy

 

[Seamaiden]

Those plants look BURNED, seriously overfed to me and it's caused something whack with the magnesium. Back off the feed would be my first suggestion AFTER you do a light flush, and if it were me I would flush with Clearex or FloraKleen or something that will help pull excess salts from the media.

NOT zinc or sulfur, those are difficult deficiencies to achieve. Post up your feeding routine, amounts, timing. I think you may want to try dropping the pH a little bit, but since I've never grown in rockwool or Hydroton I won't say that you absolutely must. I'm curious what might happen if you took it down to 5.3-5.5, though.

Also, seeing those red petioles tells me that there's either not enough phosphorous or it's not being fully utilized, again a slight pH adjustment might straighten that out.

I've posted that leaf chart before, but now I think I should be including at least two other charts with it--a Mulder's mineral interaction chart and a leaf problems flow chart. Why? Because, no mineral is an island.

I'mma get right on it! :harvest:

 

[TrichromeFan]

I think seamaiden has got it. I would do a good flush, then bring back the nutes. I haven't run rockwool in a little while, but I was always 5.4 to start, then drop back down once it rises up to 6.0.

-TF

 

[VapeIt]

I use House and Garden nutes at @ 70% strength. That includes Drip Clean.
I am using a 36 bucket system with Hydroton.
They feed every 2 hours for 15 min when lights are on.
My EC has been the same as my last run which was pretty nice.
Week 4 EC was @ 1.6, that is 800 on the .5 scale.
How much further can I back off the nutes?

2 times now I have dipped each bucket in a RO, Cal-Mag, Drip Clean solution.
If I do this with FloraKleen is 1 dipping session enough? Then lower the res to @1.4EC for the rest of the week?

Thanks.

 

[TrichromeFan]

1.6 EC doesn't sound too high. It may just be a buildup in your media. It is even possible that it is not lockout at all, and could be under feeding. I would still flush, and give it your regular nute regimen. I never have users flushing product. Just ph adjusted water @ 5.6

-TF

 

[VapeIt]

Trich,
I am using Hydroton Rocks. I don't THINK that nutes can build up in them.

I forgot to mention the strain most affected - the one pictured it Master Kush.
I also have some Grape Krush in the room, but that GK is temperamental and I just deal with weird leaves like they are not there on the GK.

6 months ago - on my first run - in Coco pots - I had Root Aphids. I nuked them x10 and have not seen a trace since. I even went to a different growing style because of it. I will spend some time today looking for evidence that they may be back.

Thanks,

 

[TrichromeFan]

Trich,
I am using Hydroton Rocks. I don't THINK that nutes can build up in them.

6 months ago - on my first run - in Coco pots - I had Root Aphids. I nuked them x10 and have not seen a trace since. I even went to a different growing style because of it. I will spend some time today looking for evidence that they may be back.

Man, I must have been smoking the good sheet when I responded there earlier!:joint:

Your PH is right on then. Of course. My bad.

Bummer about the root aphids possibility. What did you use on them the last time?

-TF

 

[Seamaiden]

This is why I always tell people, don't go by the manufacturer's recipes and schedules, learn to observe your plants. That plant looks seriously overfed to me.

 

[VapeIt]

No signs of bugs anywhere. I looked for hours with a magnifying glass. In the water, rocks, pots, plants, res, room or lights.

I know you say it looks overfeed, but I am running less % nutes than last run. My EC is at 1.5 - 750-800PPM on the .5 scale. How much lower can I go before the plant starts eating itself?

Last night I dumped the res. Filled with RO water and FloraKleen and PH to 5.5. Then I flushed them 5 times for 15 mins, 1 hour apart.

I then dumped the res again and filled with RO, MagiCal, H&G Aqua Flakes A&B at 50%. EC is 1.2 or 600PPM on the .5 scale. Tomorrow I will bump it up to @1.5EC again.

They are going downhill fast. Yellowing started last Friday, Monday some leaves were burned, and Wed it looked worse. The leaves that are at the beginning stages look like they have been bleached. Then they curl and burn.

It's like they have become light sensitive.

 

[Snow Crash]

I agree, this is definitely an "over feeding" issue but I don't think it is necessarily the fault of a too high EC. I cannot be certain what H&G system you are using, or what additional supplements outside of drip clean and Bushmaster, but there is definitely a nutrient imbalance. These plants are not appreciating your ratios.

The odds are that you pushed way too much Nitrogen and Potassium in early flowering. The addition of Bushmaster, and not enough magnesium, led you to here. At this point you are playing the reaction game.

My suggestion is to REALLY change up your nutrient ratios. If you're using the Aqua A+B then the 5-2-5 ratio when in equal volume is not helping you. Especially with the 2-0-0 Cal-Mag Plus to balance your RO water. Too much nitrogen for sure given the time of life, IMO.

My suggestion to you is to try and stay at the same EC by reducing the amount of H&G and Cal-Mag plus (don't cut them out completely) and to start incorporating a high Phosphorus bloom supplement as well as around 0.05 to 0.08EC (25 to 40ppm) of epsom salt to your solution. Try not to add any extra potassium or nitrogen right now. Don't flush out your plants and further deprive them of elements. Just do what you can to fix your ratios, maybe foliar feed once or twice with a little epsom/fulvic/kelp/surfactant on the underside of the leaves, and that's about all I think you need.

Good luck man. Of all the things I am sure of, it is that the H&G ratios are not working for you, and that's where I'd focus my energy.

 

[VapeIt]

Snow, I already flushed with FloraKleen last night.
Also, Last week was the Top Booster week (4 days) in the H&G lineup. They may have been yellowing before that. Bushmaster was run the week before for 3-4 days only.

This is what is in the res right now.
RO, MagiCal 5ml/G, H&G Aqua Flakes A&B at 5ml/G. EC is 1.2 or 600PPM on the .5 scale. No other additives in there now.

What is this:
incorporating a high Phosphorus bloom supplement.
Would that be MOAB? I run MOAB instead of Shooting Powder in the last 2 weeks.

What is this:
epsom/fulvic/kelp/surfactant
I have Epsom Salt and dishsoap. Fulvic/Kelp? Is that in Magic Green? Dark Energy?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Snow Crash]

Snow, I already flushed with FloraKleen last night.
Also, Last week was the Top Booster week (4 days) in the H&G lineup. They may have been yellowing before that. Bushmaster was run the week before for 3-4 days only.

This is what is in the res right now.
RO, MagiCal 5ml/G, H&G Aqua Flakes A&B at 5ml/G. EC is 1.2 or 600PPM on the .5 scale. No other additives in there now.

What is this:
incorporating a high Phosphorus bloom supplement.
Would that be MOAB? I run MOAB instead of Shooting Powder in the last 2 weeks.

What is this:
epsom/fulvic/kelp/surfactant
I have Epsom Salt and dishsoap. Fulvic/Kelp? Is that in Magic Green? Dark Energy?

Thanks for the help.

I'm not a MOAB user, but if it is P dominant then that would work. I use Hydroplex from Botanicare in my own garden.

Fulvic Acid is a Humic acid derivative. It is contained in many things but I use Humboldt nutrients FlavorFul as a fulvic acid source. It acts as an organic chelator and assists in the breaking down of natural plant starches. Kelp is seaweed. There are many kelp extracts on the market, and other supplements that use kelp extracts.

 

[TrichromeFan]

Vapeit,
on your last run in the hydroton, were you running the same nutes and at the same strengths? How about the plant strains? Same as last run or different? Maybe now that this run your environmental conditions are better, the plants are eating more, and being underfed at the same levels? Just a shot in the dark. DO you run one res for all the plants? If not, you could take the 50/50 and try a little hotter batch in one to see if that is the trick. I'll be keepin my fingers crossed for ya.

-TF

 

[DWeed]

No signs of bugs anywhere. I looked for hours with a magnifying glass. In the water, rocks, pots, plants, res, room or lights.

I know you say it looks overfeed, but I am running less % nutes than last run. My EC is at 1.5 - 750-800PPM on the .5 scale. How much lower can I go before the plant starts eating itself?

Last night I dumped the res. Filled with RO water and FloraKleen and PH to 5.5. Then I flushed them 5 times for 15 mins, 1 hour apart.

I then dumped the res again and filled with RO, MagiCal, H&G Aqua Flakes A&B at 50%. EC is 1.2 or 600PPM on the .5 scale. Tomorrow I will bump it up to @1.5EC again.

They are going downhill fast. Yellowing started last Friday, Monday some leaves were burned, and Wed it looked worse. The leaves that are at the beginning stages look like they have been bleached. Then they curl and burn.

It's like they have become light sensitive.

Your descriptions sound similar to mine. It was not until we checked under microscope were we able to see the bugs (mites). Yes, I checked with a magnifying glass and the little "extra high power one" too. I had several people do this inspection (granted everyone was over 40) and NOBODY saw ANYTHING, including hydro stores!

I screwed around for 9 months with people, advice and nutrients. Each time there would be a bit of improvement but nothing seemed to be "it". Make absolutely certain that you are NOT dealing with the "Borg" first.

 

[VapeIt]

I have flushed, ran nutes at 1.2EC, added Epsom Salt, still burning. It is really like they have become super light sensitive. Even on leaves that burn, any area shaded by a bud or other leaf is still normal green. Lights are 600 Watt - 3 runs old. Not too close and outside air cooled.

DWeed, I hear what you are saying. I think I need to look harder for bugs. Maybe I should just treat with Azamax even if I can't see them?

Trich, everything the same, nutes, lights, strain. But, last time I used a lot of outside air because I didn't have full control of my CO2. It is a very sealed room. This run only things that have changed is better control of Co2 and a lite dose of Bush Master. Bucket system on 1 res. I am still thinking it is some kind of Off Gassing problem. Last run I had more fresh air, so didn't see the damage. From what I have read it can come from anything, hosing, carpet, paint, sheet rock...??

Snow, Last night I mixed nutes 50% Week 6 on the H&G chart. Came out to 1.6EC - 800PPM .5 scale. Last week I did what you said with the Epsom Salt (in res), Foliar (Epsom - Magic Green) and Phos (Bud-XL)

Thanks guys. I am too close to neighbors to just vent the room like last time, I really pushed my luck that run, even had a PO looking around the area for someone smoking in a parked car!