LED for veg only

[Luckydux]

I'm looking at LEDs for a largish veg room but have NO experience with them. They will mostly be used to veg rooted clones for 2-3 wks. So many options and opinions out there but I'm not finding info for my exact scenario. I need to cover roughly 3 5x10 footprints.

I don't want anymore HID or fluorescents. Trying to keep heat down and save on AC. LEDs have come a long way and I feel its time to get my feet wet.
Any suggestions are welcomed!!

 

[Nugg]

So many options.veg doesn't really require that much..it is a large area to cover tho..my idea would be 4' bar lights...2 per area.. don't need to be high wattage.

 

[Munch517]

Oh, I know the perfect lights. Fluence Razrx (or Razr 2/3/4 if you're stringing a bunch together) I bought two Fluence Razrx lights for my veg, they offer about the same amount of light as a 2'x4' 6-8 bulb T5 and only use 90w. The ones I got ran about $300 apiece, but they have a new modular style that would work much better if you're going to need a bunch. If you're buying in any kind of volume I'd give them a call, they have a fantastic reputation working closely with large growers.

RAZR Series

Designed for the world’s largest and densest vertical farms, the Fluence RAZR Series illuminates your crops from propagation to harvest.

fluence.science

 

[Anthem]

Just get regular T5 fixtures and install LED T-5's.

 

[MarsHydroLED]

Actual Power: 245W+/-5%@100--277V
Coverage: Veg:3’x5’(90x150cm); Bloom:2’x4’(60x120cm)
Average Yields: 1.8g/W
PPE:2.35--2.57umol/J

 

[Luckydux]

I'm liking the idea of the T5 bar lights. I'll look into those more closely.
I also see a lot of complaints about diodes failing prematurely and would like to invest in quality but not fluence or gavita type of quality! Geez!

 

[Munch517]

Just get regular T5 fixtures and install LED T-5's.

I haven't been able to find anything on the efficiency of these led t5 bulbs, but I'd bet that most are mediocre at best. If you already have all the T5 fixtures it might sort of make sense but if you have to buy the fixtures then it'd be truly pointless. The savings in electricity you get when you move up in efficiency can really add up, especially with 18-24 hour veg and seedling lighting.

 

[Munch517]

I'm liking the idea of the T5 bar lights. I'll look into those more closely.
I also see a lot of complaints about diodes failing prematurely and would like to invest in quality but not fluence or gavita type of quality! Geez!

I suggested Fluence because you said you have a largish veg room running plants from clones to 2-3 weeks, Fluence makes a light that is literally ideal for that purpose and generally makes economic sense if you're going to be doing it awhile, even more so if you could benefit from freed up space if you choose to grow in racks.

Take the LED T5 replacements for example, 4' models seem to generally be 24w, with 6 bulbs that's 144w per 2x4 fixture compared to 90w for a Razrx, a savings of 54w. On 18hr light cycles at $0.13/kwh (my local rate) you would save $46.15 per year with with the Fluence light, in the meantime you get a better quality, more durable light that may have a better spectrum also. And if you have to buy T5 fixtures your looking $100-$150+ per fixture plus $40-$60 per light in bulbs vs the Razrx at just over $300 that's not saving a lot.

Bottom line, if you know you're going to grow for awhile and you can afford to spend more now to save in the long run I can guarantee Fluence and other similar brands are worth every penny.

 

[Luckydux]

I feel like ranting after researching lighting but I'll refrain. I'm sure the fluence are great lights but it's still tough to justify the cost. My go to for years has been 32w T8 strip lights from lowes and a case of quality horti bulbs from wherever. $20 for a 4ft 2 bulb fixture and 2 of those covers a 2x4 perfectly. All together $150ish will light up a 4x4 area with minimal heat. I would need to spend 4 times that on most any quality LED for the same sq ft! Even with replacing the fluoro bulbs yearly and the extra cost to cool them I'm not seeing the savings.

I've used 40w bulbs and I've used 54w T5s as well but 32w is sufficient for my goals so far. I just wonder if LEDs could help somewhere. All the different choices on the market makes me feel like theres a lot of money to be made in lighting! Think I'll just stick with what works for now.
Thanks for everyones insight!

 

[Anthem]

I suggested Fluence because you said you have a largish veg room running plants from clones to 2-3 weeks, Fluence makes a light that is literally ideal for that purpose and generally makes economic sense if you're going to be doing it awhile, even more so if you could benefit from freed up space if you choose to grow in racks.

Take the LED T5 replacements for example, 4' models seem to generally be 24w, with 6 bulbs that's 144w per 2x4 fixture compared to 90w for a Razrx, a savings of 54w. On 18hr light cycles at $0.13/kwh (my local rate) you would save $46.15 per year with with the Fluence light, in the meantime you get a better quality, more durable light that may have a better spectrum also. And if you have to buy T5 fixtures your looking $100-$150+ per fixture plus $40-$60 per light in bulbs vs the Razrx at just over $300 that's not saving a lot.

Bottom line, if you know you're going to grow for awhile and you can afford to spend more now to save in the long run I can guarantee Fluence and other similar brands are worth every penny.

I made the mistake of buying a large brand LED veg light similar to the Razor by Fluence. It was not a good buy. It has 4 double row light bars and input is 160 watts. Trying to use in a 4' x 4' area and it will veg plants but they grow too slow for production. Using the 44 watt t-5's with 8 over a 4' x 4' area produces substantially better grow and is what I am using now. Take clones about week 5 of flower and by week 10 they only need about a week and flip.

 

[Mr.jiujitsu]

I'm liking the idea of the T5 bar lights. I'll look into those more closely.
I also see a lot of complaints about diodes failing prematurely and would like to invest in quality but not fluence or gavita type of quality! Geez!

Mars lights are GARBAGE just don’t

 

[Luckydux]

Have you had failures with them or something else?

 

[Anthem]

Basically it works like anything in life, you get what you pay for. Meaning buy cheap lights get cheap results.

 

[Burned Haze]

my suggestion 9 you could even have the lights on a light rail and improve your canopy efficiency and get closer too ( every inch matter = efficiency )
good 3x3 and great brands:
1.https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/all/products/hlg-300l-bspec
or
2.https://timbergrowlights.com/model-4vl

 

[Munch517]

I made the mistake of buying a large brand LED veg light similar to the Razor by Fluence. It was not a good buy. It has 4 double row light bars and input is 160 watts. Trying to use in a 4' x 4' area and it will veg plants but they grow too slow for production. Using the 44 watt t-5's with 8 over a 4' x 4' area produces substantially better grow and is what I am using now. Take clones about week 5 of flower and by week 10 they only need about a week and flip.

I can say with some confidence that the Razrx has a comparable amount of light to a 2x4 six bulb T5 with HO bulbs, it would take two to do a 4x4 area. Make no mistake that the Razrx is only good for veg, if you're used to vegging under HID or full cycle LED lights it will not be similar to those, I actually finish vegging in my flower room because my veg area is half the size. And the OP asked about lights for clones and early veg which is what I think T5's and LED's like the Razrx are best suited for, it does help to have more light in late veg.

I'd be curious to know what light you had specifically. If it were anything like a Razrx it would've certainly matched or beat the performance of four 44w T5 bulbs per 2x4 area.

 

[MarsHydroLED]

Have you had failures with them or something else?

Seems never used our lights... maybe used to have an idea to try

 

[Luckydux]

I'm digging the light rail idea! Haven't used one of those in a minute. Thank you!

 

[Burned Haze]

I'm digging the light rail idea! Haven't used one of those in a minute. Thank you!

I don’t run my leds on em yet but I got my Cmh lines on light rails and it truely makes the light more closer but does not burn the plant ( like putting your hand slowly over something hot vs keeping it there )

 

[Anthem]

I can say with some confidence that the Razrx has a comparable amount of light to a 2x4 six bulb T5 with HO bulbs, it would take two to do a 4x4 area. Make no mistake that the Razrx is only good for veg, if you're used to vegging under HID or full cycle LED lights it will not be similar to those, I actually finish vegging in my flower room because my veg area is half the size. And the OP asked about lights for clones and early veg which is what I think T5's and LED's like the Razrx are best suited for, it does help to have more light in late veg.

I'd be curious to know what light you had specifically. If it were anything like a Razrx it would've certainly matched or beat the performance of four 44w T5 bulbs per 2x4 area.

The PPFD for the Razr, the standard not the 2, 3,4 is to low for cannabis from what I have learned from this you tube video. I think he mentions something like 500 PPFD to support cannabis.

I have not gotten thru the whole video yet because the stuff is kind of hard to digest, but that video pretty much describes the amount of light cannabis can handle in a clear manner.

 

[Munch517]

The PPFD for the Razr, the standard not the 2, 3,4 is to low for cannabis from what I have learned from this you tube video. I think he mentions something like 500 PPFD to support cannabis.

I have not gotten thru the whole video yet because the stuff is kind of hard to digest, but that video pretty much describes the amount of light cannabis can handle in a clear manner.

If that were entirely true then T5's wouldn't be adequate as they offer a similar light intensity. That's my only argument here, that a Razrx is great replacement for 6-8 bulb 2x4 T5 fixture.