Migrower said:

That light probably pulls 200 from the wall at best

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Sorry that was @hawkman

Again my opinion on this is take your money, hold onto it and research till your eyes bleed, any of those budget lights will grow you some product, just depends whether you the grower has the time and or drive to educate yourself on what is truly effecient lighting and not just go the painless plug and play route, bulbs are great too if heat and ac arent an issue, cobs and strips are awesome if the initial investment $$$ is there, youll make it back off ventilation and ac and electricity saved, but thats a waiting game some of us cant do, so ill end again on doing actual research for YOUR space and YOUR style of growing and see where you end up

G b said:

Which LED light bars do you suggest, seems like decent ones are hard to find. But meanwell drivers are not ;)

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Check out SolStrips, especially their SolStix Rack kits. Top quality Samsung diodes, fitted heatsinks and frames, for about $1/watt - real watts, not "replacement watts". No need to fool around with household lights, they have poor efficiency and spectrum, and in the end will cost your more to build and operate.

Solstrips website

Yes sir solstrips, plc strips and f series id say are the best bets, and honestly they are sooo easy to work with

Baudelaire said:

household lights have poor efficiency and spectrum, and in the end will cost your more to build and operate.

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You couldn't grow this under 18-22w/sq ft of household LED lightbulbs (<<link) if it was poor efficiency and spectrum.

You are correct that it takes some investment in sockets & reflectors (if floodlights aren't used). That stuff is valuable (as supplemental sidelight) no matter what the primary source of light is, and allows for easy light replacement (12 cents per watt). Like everything, that stuff's a tradeoff.

I definitely like strip lighting.

Gweedo said:

Your not getting a 700w light for that amount lol but hey go for it lol or spend that 300 on a diy fixture, i fully understand working with what you can afford and being budget minded are all real concerns but think about your end results why blow money out your ass 3 times upgrading lights from crap to less crap multiple times just costs more in the end, light is numero 1 to me thats the last thing you wanna skimp on, again just my 2 cents

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Thanks !! will look at dly fixtrues 700 watts = 400watts ? (true)

Gweedo said:

Yes sir solstrips, plc strips and f series id say are the best bets, and honestly they are sooo easy to work with

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probably get good coverage with strips

If you can DIY a replacement bulb array you can put together a SolStix Rack that will give you top efficiency and spectral quality, in about a hour, and for about the same cost. You'll have a light with 2x the efficiency - which means half to power bill of cheap 88 lumen/watt replacement bulbs - and much better spectrum, that will not need a "bulb" change for 10 years or more in typical growroom operations.

The big mistake so many beginners make buying grow lights is to focus solely on purchase price, which is only a fraction of the total cost of operating the light over even a few years. Those 12 cent/watt bulbs are penny-wise, pound-foolish investments that you will eventually cast aside for quality diodes and wonder why you ever bothered. Not religion, just science and economics.

Baudelaire said:

If you can DIY a replacement bulb array you can put together a SolStix Rack that will give you top efficiency and spectral quality, in about a hour, and for about the same cost. You'll have a light with 2x the efficiency - which means half to power bill of cheap 88 lumen/watt replacement bulbs - and much better spectrum, that will not need a "bulb" change for 10 years or more in typical growroom operations.

The big mistake so many beginners make buying grow lights is to focus solely on purchase price, which is only a fraction of the total cost of operating the light over even a few years. Those 12 cent/watt bulbs are penny-wise, pound-foolish investments that you will eventually cast aside for quality diodes and wonder why you ever bothered. Not religion, just science and economics.

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🖒🖒🖒

Ace9137 said:

I had meizhi, I heard(meaning I don't know for sure), that vipar was a part of meizhi.

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heard of Meizhi before

And hawkman, the 700=400 thing doesnt work like that its all about whats taken from the wall ie actual draw. If if you run a 100w led at 50w you wouldnt call it a 100w led on the box right? Wrong thats all the cheapo companies are doing in so creating "flim flam" and a general mistrust of leds in the community, a homebuilt light with quality diodes and a properly sized driver is hard to beat and it pulls the watts YOU build it to pull, false claims be dammed lol

hawkman said:

probably get good coverage with strips

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Fantastic even coverage hotspots are gonna go extinct

hawkman said:

heard of Meizhi before

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When they run, they are hard to beat. To many flaws in the designs and the coverage. the hotspots were rough also, they formed over time and not all at once. The energy efficiency dropped as well, near the end of my LED's life. The biggest flaw was that they put six IR bulbs in, plants in general don't absorb the energy from the lower end frequencies, less energy, way more heat, the why of the hotspots also.

Baudelaire said:

which means half to power bill of cheap 88 lumen/watt replacement bulbs

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The 88-100L/w specs on a typical box of bulbs represents omnidirectional light passing through a plastic diffusion globe. Remove that globe: the light becomes directional -- and without the absorption loss of the globe. (So, you're comparing apples and oranges in this regard. I'm not trying to argue with you. I just don't want others to be misled.).

I don't have an expensive integrating sphere to measure lumens of such a re-purposed lightbulb. But, measuring lux (the amount of lumen light landing on a specific point), the difference from globed to unglobbed is 200-300% increase of light. All the omnidirectional lumens are going where you want them to be. That's a profound difference compared to the boxed specs (or comparing an omni & diffused light to a directional without diffusion).

I'm ok with saying lightbulbs aren't as efficient as the latest/greatest LED technology. But, saying it's "inefficient" isn't sustainable when you can grow dense buds at 18-22w/sq ft.

At that performance, increased efficiency is a diminishing return, right? If it's customary to use 35-45w/sq ft (with average LED fixtures, CMH, T5HO) and someone can get down to the 20w/sq ft range... going to 15w/sq ft isn't that much (by comparison). That's when subjective, human factors may very well compete with chasing efficiency. Being able to replace bulbs cheaply (15 cents per watt) instead of living with 20% lumen deprecation for more grows because the lumens cost more to replace. Being able to source light locally. That's a big one for beginning growers who have to orient themselves to many topics. 20w/sq ft is a very big deal when you can just run down to the hardware store and have it.

az2000 said:

I'm ok with saying lightbulbs aren't as efficient as the latest/greatest LED technology. But, saying it's "inefficient" isn't sustainable when you can grow dense buds at 18-22w/sq ft.

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Just this part alone is pretty impressive

Ace9137 said:

Just this part alone is pretty impressive

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I really think ordinary household LED lightbulbs are overlooked. I totally understand people turning their noses up at the concept. It's not sexy. :) But, it's cheap, available and energy efficient.

It's not terribly labor efficient (rigging up sockets, positioning a dozen bulbs). That distribution of light around the plant may make the difference between 20w/sq ft and 30w/sq ft as concentrated top-down light. (But, you pay for that with labor.).

I think they're perfect for the budget grower. Also, the new grower who doesn't want to get too deep into anything before they know they can grow. They can buy 3-4 bulbs at a time as their plant grows. $10 total investment. (Plus the sockets. They're an investment that outlives the bulbs and can be used for sidelighting. They also allow for replacing light at 12 cents per watt.).

They definitely have a place. They're not right or everyone. They're just not as bad as people might think. Far from it. (Far.).

== Different topic:

There's also a psychological factor, like we were discussing a few hours ago (a few posts higher). When you buy into the latest, most efficient lighting... you're probably going to feel the need to upgrade in a year or two -- as the latest tech reaches the market, and your light fixture has 8 grows on it (10,000 hours of use, maybe 20% lower lumen output).

Lightbulbs seem simpler that way. At 15-cents/watt to buy, you can replace them every grow (I think that would be excessive. I'm just illustrating a point.). And, you don't have the emotional investment which LED users typically have (chasing technology). It's just lightbulbs! Go to Home Depot, see them still on the shelf, and breath a sigh of relief that you haven't been let behind! (wink).

And, really, when you get down to a certain efficieny level, do the incremental improvements matter anymore? A 30% improvement for an HPS grower (going from 50w/sq ft down to 35w/sq ft CMH) is significant. But, when you're at 30w/sq ft, that only takes you down to 21w/sq ft. That's good, but not as substantial. Another 30% improvement is 15w/sq ft.

It's diminishing returns.

I live in a hot environment. I might appreciate 15w/sq ft. But, for most people that's not a thing. (Many, like you?, benefit from the heat of HPS. There's so many factors to what makes a grow light right for an individual.).

Gweedo said:

Fantastic even coverage hotspots are gonna go extinct

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the only down side is the # of strips one must use ? lets say a 3 foot long and 2 foot wide ?

Ace9137 said:

When they run, they are hard to beat. To many flaws in the designs and the coverage. the hotspots were rough also, they formed over time and not all at once. The energy efficiency dropped as well, near the end of my LED's life. The biggest flaw was that they put six IR bulbs in, plants in general don't absorb the energy from the lower end frequencies, less energy, way more heat, the why of the hotspots also.

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was looking at them along with the VipsecturaPAR 700 and Galayhydro 300 watt dimminable also looked at california light works, Kind and IllumiGrow one's looking at spending close to $800.00

hawkman said:

was looking at them along with the VipsecturaPAR 700 and Galayhydro 300 watt dimminable also looked at california light works, Kind and IllumiGrow one's looking at spending close to $800.00

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That is why I keep waiting, they bring them prices down and they would have more customers.

Ace9137 said:

That is why I keep waiting, they bring them prices down and they would have more customers.

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Name of some good LED's ?? other than kind, ect