LED Lights for 5x5x6.5

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OntarioGoldenHash

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I think I would recommend that you get a couple grows behind you without CO2 at first. The problem with CO2 is that it is like installing a massive HP upgrade on a car. It goes fast, but it also points out all the weak spots like tranny and driver capabilities pretty quick. First time growers should probably try to keep it down the center of the fairway nice and easy at first, then once you are getting good look at what is the next thing you can do that is the biggest influencer on what your goals are. If your goals are fast and big, CO2 may be for you. If your goal is top shelf high THC bud, CO2 will have no impact and will only cause issues. At least that's my opinion, take it for what you paid for it.
Thank you so much for your insight. I need to keep telling myself to slow down.

I shall keep doing my research.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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Thank you so much for your insight. I need to keep telling myself to slow down.

I shall keep doing my research.
Exactly. We have all been right where you are now. This is a very fun and gratifying time for you.

My grandpa was a funny dude. One of his best pieces of advice came from an old farmers mouth. He told me see those 2 bulls up there? Young one and the old one? Heard ‘‘em talking the other day. Young one says Hey look at all those cows down there! Let’s run down and fuck one!!!! Old bull looks him up and down and says let’s walk down and fuck ‘em all.

I think I was about 5. 🤯
 
growsince79

growsince79

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Exactly. We have all been right where you are now. This is a very fun and gratifying time for you.

My grandpa was a funny dude. One of his best pieces of advice came from an old farmers mouth. He told me see those 2 bulls up there? Young one and the old one? Heard ‘‘em talking the other day. Young one says Hey look at all those cows down there! Let’s run down and fuck one!!!! Old bull looks him up and down and says let’s walk down and fuck ‘em all.

I think I was about 5. 🤯
LOL Same thing Robrt Duval said to Sean Penn.
 
Cashmeh

Cashmeh

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So im in the same tent as you. 4x4x6.5 and im using that 1000w hid and I still think I have room for more
 
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Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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Hey cash I’m not saying it can’t be done with hid, clearly it can you are killing it. I’m just saying of all the potential tools in your box as a new light purchaser, hid would be at the bottom of my list for this specific purpose. But I can’t put my value on someone else’s dollar so this all comes down to personal preference.
 
Cashmeh

Cashmeh

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Hey cash I’m not saying it can’t be done with hid, clearly it can you are killing it. I’m just saying of all the potential tools in your box as a new light purchaser, hid would be at the bottom of my list for this specific purpose. But I can’t put my value on someone else’s dollar so this all comes down to personal preference.
Id say budget or plant limit would be the biggest issue right? I think alot of people want to grow more just cant afford it.

The biggest downfall i can see is if they are not passive or active hydro, they might fry their plants due to slower growth rates. Im sure plants will need to be able to use the light. But then since they are in a 5x5 It just makes it seem like the most affordable choice. Like saving 1100 bucks and most likely a larger harvest i have to mention it. Now if they got money and weed. . and dont need more plants and tents. Idk. . . i just want the new people to at least consider these tubes. . so far ive only seen a handfull of people run them on here.

I remember a guy saying on here that its better to save that money for once you have a stockpile.
 
growsince79

growsince79

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Id say budget or plant limit would be the biggest issue right? I think alot of people want to grow more just cant afford it.

The biggest downfall i can see is if they are not passive or active hydro, they might fry their plants due to slower growth rates. Im sure plants will need to be able to use the light. But then since they are in a 5x5 It just makes it seem like the most affordable choice. Like saving 1100 bucks and most likely a larger harvest i have to mention it. Now if they got money and weed. . and dont need more plants and tents. Idk. . . i just want the new people to at least consider these tubes. . so far ive only seen a handfull of people run them on here.

I remember a guy saying on here that its better to save that money for once you have a stockpile.
If you want personal use cheap, a $70 150w light can grow a big sack of buds in a 2 x 2. No need to spend much to get started.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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Id say budget or plant limit would be the biggest issue right? I think alot of people want to grow more just cant afford it.

Well if you are going to make me spell it out, the biggest problem with HID in any form is the huge inefficiencies they create. Too much power going in, a huge percentage of which is just converted to heat. At least for me in the midwest USA, you end up paying twice. Once to light it, and once again for your AC system to suck out the heat.

These problems are even more difficult in a small tent.

And you can't just dim them down to 30% if you need to. You are moving lights up and down, and that's not easy to do for a new grower in a short tent.

Then there is the spectrum. Very bulb dependent. If you are like me, you end up buying and trying several bulbs to find the sweet spot. I have found that the eye hortilux is the go to bulb for veg for example, and that bulb alone is $230. Add in all the extra electricity, and in one grow the LEDs are cheaper. And you still have to add in a flower bulb to the cost.

If you want to experiment with Far Red or any form of UV, that's more lights you have to buy and cram into the tent.

If the heat from the HID forces you to a mini split for the tent, or more AC for the lung room - well... $$$

Then there are the hot spots and wildly uneven par across the 5x5 area. Bar lights kick the shit out of HID for light uniformity.

If you get a tall plant that shoots up into the light, with HID they will literally cook. Not so with LED. Time and flexibility to make adjustments without plant damage win LED. Easier for a new grower.

There's more, but I'll stop here. I'm not saying HID is bad - I run them. But if I was a new grower and could buy any lighting today, I would not start with 1960s technology. That just doesn't make sense to me. But you know about opinions and assholes...
 
Cashmeh

Cashmeh

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263
If you want personal use cheap, a $70 150w light can grow a big sack of buds in a 2 x 2. No need to spend much to get started.
I said stockpile lol that wont get you no stockpile. Im talking as much weight as a space will allow. Like i dont see how anyone can put under 1000w in a 4x4 and expect to get weight. Im looking to get at least 1lb in 10.5 weeks off the 1000w in a 4x4. Thats also while loosing 20% of my weed to mold. Like ive trimmed 3 oz and im aint even put a dent in it. Now by buds all popcorn and takes me a fkn hour to trim an oz. . but still. Its dispensary quality. Again i know yall know your shit. . i cant comprehend the spectrum stuff so i get the tuning aspect for quality. . that ill never be able to do.

Well if you are going to make me spell it out, the biggest problem with HID in any form is the huge inefficiencies they create. Too much power going in, a huge percentage of which is just converted to heat. At least for me in the midwest USA, you end up paying twice. Once to light it, and once again for your AC system to suck out the heat.

These problems are even more difficult in a small tent.

And you can't just dim them down to 30% if you need to. You are moving lights up and down, and that's not easy to do for a new grower in a short tent.

Then there is the spectrum. Very bulb dependent. If you are like me, you end up buying and trying several bulbs to find the sweet spot. I have found that the eye hortilux is the go to bulb for veg for example, and that bulb alone is $230. Add in all the extra electricity, and in one grow the LEDs are cheaper. And you still have to add in a flower bulb to the cost.

If you want to experiment with Far Red or any form of UV, that's more lights you have to buy and cram into the tent.

If the heat from the HID forces you to a mini split for the tent, or more AC for the lung room - well... $$$

Then there are the hot spots and wildly uneven par across the 5x5 area. Bar lights kick the shit out of HID for light uniformity.

If you get a tall plant that shoots up into the light, with HID they will literally cook. Not so with LED. Time and flexibility to make adjustments without plant damage win LED. Easier for a new grower.

There's more, but I'll stop here. I'm not saying HID is bad - I run them. But if I was a new grower and could buy any lighting today, I would not start with 1960s technology. That just doesn't make sense to me. But you know about opinions and assholes...
Yea it costs a little more to run but the 1100 dollars saved is quite a bit. Im sure that light has to pull what 800w. .vs my 1000. . and it wont get as much weight due to that. So if its 20% cheaper to run, but you lose out on 20% of weight. . in just dont get it. . .expecially when my bulbs are only 32 dollars. So for 210 my light lasts 2 years. . for 300 dollars it lasts 4 years, and the extra wattage im using equates into extra grams.

As for the venting air, the goal is to use crawlspace air/outdoor air. But yea. . that ac unit does run more than usual, i guess that could be the biggest downfall but its hardly noticable on our electric bill.

As for moving the lights up and down, i never do and they are always foxed. I train plants low, which everyone in using leds should do too. My ballast dims down to 600w and after 3 weeks in the veg tent. . lol led veg . . but then they go to the flower room at 600 watts day 1 750 day 2. . 1000w day 3. Im quite sure the amount of light a plant can use is dependant on the substrate and growth rates. Let me be blunt. . people only burn plants with lights because the plants metabolism is slow and cant pull up nutrients fast enough. Im quite sure most trials on hids vs leds would look quite different if I had done them. Hell can you name someone else who successfully uses 1000w in a 4x4?

I concede the uniformity argument haha

How about this, Im glad I didnt do what the majority of experienced growers said about hydro and leds. After growing for only 1.5 years, im glad I went active hydro hid instead of the coco led path most take on here. Not knocking the old heads. . i just think these led companies are making way to much money.
 
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Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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Yea it costs a little more to run but the 1100 dollars saved is quite a bit. Im sure that light has to pull what 800w. .vs my 1000. . and it wont get as much weight due to that. So if its 20% cheaper to run, but you lose out on 20% of weight. . in just dont get it. . .expecially when my bulbs are only 32 dollars. So for 210 my light lasts 2 years. . for 300 dollars it lasts 4 years, and the extra wattage im using equates into extra grams.

The way you frame the argument is not really valid.

Spider Farmer SE7000 = under $700.

Max power 730W. But you seldom run it that high because the lights are 6" from the canopy.

Extra wattage is not directly equal to extra weight in and of itself. Extra PPFD is, if used properly and in the correct spectrum. When wattage is converted into heat it is wasted.

We will just have to agree to disagree. I'm cool with that.


EDIT: Cash, we are not going to reach agreement on this. So you get the last word below. Cheers man.
 
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Cashmeh

Cashmeh

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The way you frame the argument is not really valid.

Spider Farmer SE7000 = under $700.

Max power 730W. But you seldom run it that high because the lights are 6" from the canopy.

Extra wattage is not directly equal to extra weight in and of itself. Extra PPFD is, if used properly and in the correct spectrum. When wattage is converted into heat it is wasted.

We will just have to agree to disagree. I'm cool with that.
So if I say led for veg and hps for flower isnt that closer to the correct spectrum than if I just used an led for the full grow. If the demand for red increases then the led you would need would need to be spectrum tuneable, which is why you got that fancy light instead of the Sf.

How about this, the led that I would want would have to emit 1000w of just blue/white for veg, then you would need to switch it to 1000w of just red. So then its actually a 2000w led thats adjustable. Then it would have to get me the same weight. Then to justify the extra cost, it would have to save me money in the long haul.

Im all for even par and giving it the best spectrum, I just think it comes with a cost that no one mentions. I think a good pros and cons chart would work best. Cause atm, im the only one talking shit on the cost of led. I just dont see the same weight being pulled from the same space.

Ill concede the quality though. . it will always be better under led. . well from what ive seen on here.
 
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OntarioGoldenHash

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I am leaning more towards the Fluence SPYDR 2h, due to my own research :D. Just waiting on a price from a reseller.

Is anyone here actively using the SPYDR 2h 47"? Thanks.
 
Magellan14

Magellan14

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Spectrum is very important. I have tried quite a few LEDs before including being part of the Maxspct first reef tank LED when they became first available. I have had reef tanks for 30+ years. I grew my first plants more than 40 years ago. These things perform better than anything I have tried. Black Dog LED. Only downside for some with low ceiling height may not be able to use them all because they need more spacing above the plants.


IMG 0093
 
O

OntarioGoldenHash

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Update on Fluence SPYDR 2h.

The Fluence 2H retails for $2150+Tax and has a 4 week order time, model only comes in 230V-480V.

So its back to the Raging KUSH II for now.
 
Anthem

Anthem

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I have, I am now looking at the P-TEK XT 1000W CO2 PRO LED. I will be adding a CO2 bag to my grow area to make use of those extra photons.
You might want to rethink a few things. While if it is a true 1000 watts of LED that is overkill for a 4' x 4' area. 5' x 5' it is still overkill. You will probably never get the light to its full potential at the correct height. I call BS on the CO2 bag crap, until I see valid proof those bags are pushing out 1300 PPM of CO2 with lights on constantly I do not see it as possible. About 650 watts of true LED is plenty. Even with CO2.
 
MIGrampaUSA

MIGrampaUSA

3,732
263
You might want to rethink a few things. While if it is a true 1000 watts of LED that is overkill for a 4' x 4' area. 5' x 5' it is still overkill. You will probably never get the light to its full potential at the correct height. I call BS on the CO2 bag crap, until I see valid proof those bags are pushing out 1300 PPM of CO2 with lights on constantly I do not see it as possible. About 650 watts of true LED is plenty. Even with CO2.
It's a great light but in this case @Anthem is right. Considering the 6.5' heights you have to work with makes a bar light the better choice but you'll be better served if you're looking in the 650w-750w range. PhotonTek makes a light that's in the 650w-680w area that fits your space. So does Grower's Choice. I've run an ROI-E720 with excellent results in a tent of identical size. Depending on budget and the bells n whistles you're looking for, there are many lights more suitable to your space than that 1000w beast.
 
O

OntarioGoldenHash

110
43
You might want to rethink a few things. While if it is a true 1000 watts of LED that is overkill for a 4' x 4' area. 5' x 5' it is still overkill. You will probably never get the light to its full potential at the correct height. I call BS on the CO2 bag crap, until I see valid proof those bags are pushing out 1300 PPM of CO2 with lights on constantly I do not see it as possible. About 650 watts of true LED is plenty. Even with CO2.
I have a CO2 sensor coming and I could setup a simple test with one of these bags and share the results. I was also looking at the X600W PRO, even though it only shows 84% for a 5x5 vs the 1000w with something like 97% for the same 5x5 area.
 
Anthem

Anthem

4,155
263
I have a CO2 sensor coming and I could setup a simple test with one of these bags and share the results. I was also looking at the X600W PRO, even though it only shows 84% for a 5x5 vs the 1000w with something like 97% for the same 5x5 area.
I am probably going to be doing the test myself in the coming weeks. I have had enough on the Exhale bags. I run CO2 and I just struggle with how the thing is suppose to replace a CO2 tank. With a room with 4 lights I go thru a 20 pound tank every 10 to 12 days at peak of flower production. I just do not see how that bag can replace that amount of CO2.
 

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