Texas Kid said:

At a government level they still need to be able to throw people in jail/prison. If they could find another crime to focus on and toss people in jail at the same rate as drug/marijuana offenses they would be all over it.

I think something like 65% of people in prison are there for drug related offenses and of those 80% are there for marijuana...Prison is big business, big money, big corruption, and big politics.

Tex

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Agreed %100

true grit said:

Even without reclassification, further decriminalization seems much more logical to me. Such as decrim of private growing, possession and sales for adults over 21. Not the best model to go by- but basically like adults in Oakland.

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Right. I think Safer and company lost sight of this. Decriminalize possession of 1oz? Didnt we basically do that back in the mid 70's in Colorado.

Our system naturally corrupts things, in this case Safer. Started grass roots now they are too caught up in the game, and off point. Point is, we need to address sale/manufacture, we let people smoke now lets let them grow, and not risk jail time if they sell a little excess.

If you didn't vote for Prop 19!

true grit said:

Not really, and thats the mentality that ends up with a 1284 like measure.

Even without reclassification, further decriminalization seems much more logical to me. Such as decrim of private growing, possession and sales for adults over 21. Not the best model to go by- but basically like adults in Oakland.

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"If you didn't vote for Prop 19, then you're against Legalization!"
Sound familiar anyone?

Holy crap!

Jarofunk said:

This may have worked a decade ago. But these days the Feds don't have any $$$. The threat of withholding funding isn't really a card they have to play anymore. Hell they don't even have the $$ to prosecute people on the medical raids they are doing now>>> that's why they are robbing them and leaving.

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I cant disagree more. If not $ theyll find something to hold over our heads. Big Brother always has their thumb on everything

I have not read these 8 ballot measures and I doubt I will take the time but I read on another board that they include mmj dui enforcement rules in all 8 measures. Can anyone confirm this?

State vs. Federal, Not Individual vs. Big Brother

cannarado said:

I cant disagree more. If not $ theyll find something to hold over our heads. Big Brother always has their thumb on everything

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What he was saying is that without being able to withhold certain Federal Funding, like Interstate Highways, ect...
It is much tougher for them to push around the States.
The less revenue they have, and ability to take on Debt, weakens their stance regarding States Rights.

And the less money they have to focus on everyone, the more they focus on those with the money.

I think if this bill does not pass, the conservatives in CO will try to repeal Amendment 20 and then there will be nothing....

DoobyScoo said:

"If you didn't vote for Prop 19, then you're against Legalization!"
Sound familiar anyone?

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lol, exactly- like i said, not the best example. but aside from prop19 nonsense, they have local decriminalization laws (that cover more) for adults over 21.

kuz said:

Right. I think Safer and company lost sight of this. Decriminalize possession of 1oz? Didnt we basically do that back in the mid 70's in Colorado.

Our system naturally corrupts things, in this case Safer. Started grass roots now they are too caught up in the game, and off point. Point is, we need to address sale/manufacture, we let people smoke now lets let them grow, and not risk jail time if they sell a little excess.

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Very true. Its funny, see em all rubbing elbows at events and nothing really happening. They did decrim 1oz, but what does that do for protection these days. Giving everyone the legal option to grow their own and possess more than an ounce would be ideal.

JeromeGarcia said:

I think if this bill does not pass, the conservatives in CO will try to repeal Amendment 20 and then there will be nothing....

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I think you are being a bit extreme, and honestly sounds like the fear tactics to push people to vote in a direction. You said it yourself- there are compromises- why should we vote for something with compromises just because its moving in some folks "right direction"?

1oz/6plants...kidding me? We are fighting that as being unrealistic for most patients, and if it passed 90% of individuals would exceed that...what does that lead to?... more opportunity for enforcement, more crap tacked on next session, new methods for registration, zoning,etc...BLA BLA BLA. All crap to me. If they put something realistic together for the people to legalize, i would consider- but as of now, stupid plan. shoot for a realistic decrim.

true grit said:

I think you are being a bit extreme, and honestly sounds like the fear tactics to push people to vote in a direction. You said it yourself- there are compromises- why should we vote for something with compromises just because its moving in some folks "right direction"?

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Seems to be what we do in this country... we vote for the best of limited options. We see it as a step in a direction, but in hindsight, it never is.

true grit said:

1oz/6plants...kidding me? We are fighting that as being unrealistic for most patients, and if it passed 90% of individuals would exceed that...what does that lead to?... more opportunity for enforcement, more crap tacked on next session, new methods for registration, zoning,etc...BLA BLA BLA. All crap to me. If they put something realistic together for the people to legalize, i would consider- but as of now, stupid plan. shoot for a realistic decrim.

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Exactly, and the fact that SAFER accepts these limitations, outright endorses them, is still blowing my mind. Tvert has been the one all along saying "give us a safer alternative to alcohol...". Last I checked, I wasn't capped at the beer store with a six pack. None of these politicians care if I have 12 kegs of beer in my house, or a tanker of whiskey parked out back.

And why so vague about "Marijuana Establishments", and "Licensed Cultivation Facilities"? As a private individual, I can brew as much beer as I want in my home. Given the stated purpose of this bill: "MARIJUANA SHOULD BE REGULATED IN A MANNER SIMILAR TO ALCOHOL", shouldn't I be allowed to grow as much as I like?

As has been stated previously, this is not legalization. With 1oz already decriminalized, this bill doesn't do anything for me. At the very most, it saves me a $100 ticket.

I think alcohol is a perfect template for the regulation of marijuana. 21 and up, ID to buy, license to sell (with the exactly same qualifications required to obtain a liquor license). End of bill.

true grit said:

1oz/6plants...kidding me? We are fighting that as being unrealistic for most patients, and if it passed 90% of individuals would exceed that...what does that lead to?... more opportunity for enforcement, more crap tacked on next session, new methods for registration, zoning,etc...BLA BLA BLA. All crap to me. If they put something realistic together for the people to legalize, i would consider- but as of now, stupid plan. shoot for a realistic decrim.

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Grit: Remember this would be the 1st step out of National prohibition. Of course the bill is not going to be the best. It can't be. It HAS to be conservative. It HAS to restrictions in it that prevent non-Colorado distribution. Plus this is for any adult who does not have a med card. MMJ ppl's can still do the 2ozs - + 36+ plants if they are CGs.

This bill is written to pass as the Nations first legalization of mj. Please look at it from that perspective...

Unit541 said:

As a private individual, I can brew as much beer as I want in my home. Given the stated purpose of this bill: "MARIJUANA SHOULD BE REGULATED IN A MANNER SIMILAR TO ALCOHOL"

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Technically you are limited to 200 gals per person in household per year.

Regulated in a manner similar to alcohol.
Good Point, there is nothing here that makes it similar to alcohol. Just another ploy by players to 'fear based' legislation.
Be afraid, you are over your 'one ounce', better smoke it quick! Then come to our 'competitive application process" approved retail outlets when you run out.

One step forward, two steps back. IMO.

JeromeGarcia said:

Grit: Remember this would be the 1st step out of National prohibition. Of course the bill is not going to be the best. It can't be. It HAS to be conservative. It HAS to restrictions in it that prevent non-Colorado distribution. Plus this is for any adult who does not have a med card. MMJ ppl's can still do the 2ozs - + 36+ plants if they are CGs.

This bill is written to pass as the Nations first legalization of mj. Please look at it from that perspective...

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And thats part of the problem, people/lawyer/activists are so eager to be the "1st" to do it, they will sacrifice whats right for patients/adults to get to that point under the auspice its good for the nation. I don't care if CO is the first to legalize or break down some imaginary barrier for supposed state rights- do it right, or don't do it. Its not a step in the right direction if it just causes more headaches (and don't tell me Fed won't be a bigger headache). Basically what you are saying is exactly what the argument for Prop19 was- lets just do it, so the nation can follow. Hate to say, but thats not gonna change the nation. Every state has a legislature to overcome, its just different here because California and CO are light years ahead in teh MMJ movement. Not sure if ya saw, but AZ is now considering repealing a statewide vote BY the people. And you were just alluding to conservatives wanting to do the same here.

And you are right, patients can have 2oz but have to register with the state to grow a reasonable amount of plants and be subject to wtf ever? Thats not even good for patients, why forget about them to allow more policing of adults? Currently they should be focused on maintaining rights and privacy of patients before they start jumping hurdles and putting limitations on everyday adults IMO.

The first step should be making MMJ patients, cultivation by patients or adults, possession and private adult sales a LOWEST priority of enforcement, and guarantee that by only allocating a limited budget to LEO for certain levels of enforcement (ie-dui, enforcement/education of minors). IMO justify it by reallocating funding to enforcement that underage is not using it, education and foremost drug rehab programs statewide....encourage them to be proactive instead of constantly looking for ways to enforce. If the only thing that happens if cannabis folks get in trouble is possible community service, rehab, drug classes, slap on the wrist, maybe they will move on to larger problems and stop wasting so much damn effort and tax money on enforcement and regulation.

Key being to make sure any possession, cultivation or private adults sales is no longer an arrestable offense. At most make infractions a benefit to the public by resulting in community service hours. Education and enforcement of minors is not difficult- do as they say and treat it like alcohol or cigarettes.

Just a few thoughts as to something possibly more reasonable.

true grit said:

And thats part of the problem, people/lawyer/activists are so eager to be the "1st" to do it, they will sacrifice whats right for patients/adults to get to that point under the auspice its good for the nation. I don't care if CO is the first to legalize or break down some imaginary barrier for supposed state rights- do it right, or don't do it.

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straight up! couldnt have said it better myself

JeromeGarcia said:

It HAS to be conservative.

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I would settle for private use only. Decrim private sales, you want to tack on legal possession of an oz to move the national scene forward, thats cool.

I like grass roots, If it werent for dipshit Tippy Toes, I'd back CTI.

Safer likes to say it doesn’t matter if the vote passes, just putting it on the table creates awareness and is a good thing. What needs to be talked about? Drug war failed, easiest place to get a bag of weed is any public high school in America, same as it always was. Nobody should go to jail for growing or selling the plant. Lets take the monopoly away from the cartel, and stop putting decent people in prison.

Given the current temperature of our esteemed state leaders, perhaps even the feds are a little more ripe for the picking at this time...

The Drug Enforcement Administration told Legalization Nation in an e-mail last week that 55 unnamed companies now hold licenses to grow cannabis in the United States, a fact that contradicts the widespread belief that there is only one legal pot farm in America, operated under the DEA for research purposes. It appears as if the upswing in federally approved pot farming is about feeding the need of pharmaceutical companies who want to produce a generic version of THC pill Marinol and at least one other cannabis-based pill for a wide variety of new uses.

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With uncle sam issuing federal licenses to grow Cannabis for medicinal purposes, they've kind of taken the wind out of their own sails in terms of defending the current schedule 1 status.

What a perfect scenario for the feds. Pharma gets to profit, and the feds get to keep all those lovely seized assets, and keep all those private prisons full. Full blown legalization will ruin what's left of the scene/culture. IMO the best we can hope for is full decrim of all drugs, i.e. Portugal. But that shit ain't gonna happen.

Here is exactly what legalization will get us....

Could Reefer Madness Give Big Pharma a Much-Needed Boost?Medical marijuana would be a huge payday for U.S. drug companies

May 31, 2011, 9:27 am EDT | By Barry Cohen, Health Care Writer

If the U.S. government ever legalizes marijuana, sales of the drug would probably make the $11 million Pfizer (NYSE: PFE) raked in on Lipitor worldwide last year look like chump change.

Consider that medical marijuana sales in the U.S. already will reach $1.7 billion this year, with nearly $250 million coming from Colorado, according to a report released in March. Further, the report predicts that medical marijuana sales will reach $8.9 billion if 20 more states allow its sale for medical use. Medical marijuana markets currently exist in Colorado and six other states and will open this year in five more.

But that’s just the tip of the iceberg. If people could use marijuana without the fear of getting busted, some industry observers say the market would likely be in the $10 billion-to-$40 billion range-and could even top $100 billion annually.

Given the dollars at stake, it’s easy to see why your best known purveyor of pills, Big Pharma, wants in on the action. And recent developments indicate that sometime in the not-too-distant future they may be competing with your friendly neighborhood pot dealer.

Just last week, the Drug Enforcement Administration said 55 unnamed companies have been granted licenses to grow cannabis in the United States. Observers say the pharmaceutical companies need the pot farms to cultivate weed so they can produce a generic version of the THC pill Marinol, which is currently marketed by Watson Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (NYSE: WPI ), and at least one other cannabis-based pill for a wide variety of new uses.
It’s thought that pharmaceutical researchers are using THC, cannabis’ main psychoactive ingredient, as well as the number-two cannabinoid, CBD, in studies to treat obsessive compulsive disorder, schizophrenia, fibromyalgia, PTSD, and even irritable bowel syndrome. That’s because pot modulates a newly discovered yet primal-cell signaling pathway called “the endocannabinoid system,” with special effects in the brain and the gut.

But to grow pot and put organic THC and CBD in pills, the DEA to would need to move organic THC down from Schedule I, where it is now, to the far less restrictive Schedule III, where synthetic THC Marinol currently resides. That’s exactly what drug companies have requested. And by all indications, their wish is likely to be granted.

These developments have sparked outrage among advocates for legalizing marijuana. They wonder why big companies will be able to grow pot, put it in a pill and call it medicine while those who grow it at home or in a city-permitted pot farm face felony charges and jail. Good point. But welcome to the world of big business, where large companies have high-powered lobbyists pleading their cases in Congress every day.
So which companies are among the fortunate 55 starting up their own pot farms? Probably
Watson. Another likely candidate is Valeant Pharmceutical International (NYSE: VRX ), which has a THC prescription drug marketed under the name Cesamet. You can probably add the list such Big Pharma names as Pfizer, Merck (NYSE: MRK), GlaxoSmithKline (NYSE: GSK), and Bristol Myers-Squibb (NYSE: BMY). Novartis (NYSE: NVS) is probably in there, too, considering the company once tested a cannabinoid agonist to treat chronic pain.
Rather than speculate on which companies will emerge as the leaders in the marijuana industry, investors just might want to wait for the Pharmaceutical Pot ETF. It can’t be far off.

And Sam the skunkman gets on and says were all tin foil hat wearing kook's... as he's laughing all the way to the bank. Pretty soon anything with Skunk genes in it will be GW Pharms intellectual property.

So its pretty much over. Forget growing, time to fully sell out and go corporate. You guys thought we sold our souls to get in on the current scene....let me prep my resume for Pfizer.

Oh, and isn't Sam the Skunkman's real name Dan or Dave Watson? Watson pharmaceuticals? GW has had a DEA permit for years....while we bicker among ourselves they have been scheming this for a long time!