Lets talk Cloning

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woodsmaneh

woodsmaneh

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I started out at 45 but six years ago I read a research paper done by the scientist at Canna and that flipped what I knew about cloning on it's head. For me the key was understanding what happens when you stick the clone in the medium that's where the magic starts and that's what I wanted to learn about. I'll see if I can find it it's a great read.
 
woodsmaneh

woodsmaneh

1,724
263
So I found some of it

the following came from
http://www.canna-uk.com/taking_cuttings


Now for the big news … cut it straight, not angled!(Editor’s note: Cutting at an angle is not a bad practice, but the chance of getting bacterial and/or fungal disease in your cutting is slightly higher. The advantage of cutting at an angle is that the cutting is likely to develop more roots. To minimise loss of cuttings from disease, cut them straight, not angled). Calluses form faster and seal off the stem quicker on a straight cut than on an angled cut, thereby reducing the incidence of disease. However, cut flowers such as roses should be cut on an angle to encourage the stem to absorb as much water as possible and the wound to stay open to transfer the water. But when taking cuttings, take care to avoid crushing the tissue at the cut. Use a very sharp knife or bypass pruners.
It is difficult to avoid crushing the tissue at the cut, but the impact can be reduced by selecting the correct cutting tool. The cut must be clean and crisp. It really depends on the material being cut. Herbaceous material (material is from a herbaceous plant. This plant has leaves and stems which die down to soil level at the end of the growing season. Some parts of the plant survive under or close to the ground from season to season. New growth is formed from the remaining living tissues. This plant has little or no woody tissue) and very thin woody material (material from a woody plant. This is a vascular plant that has a perennial stem which is covered by a layer of thickened bark. The stem supports continued vegetative growth above ground from one year to the next) are best cut with a specialist knife, called a propagation or budding/grafting knife. The next best option is bypass pruners. Scissors, anvil pruners, and fingers should be avoided as they crush the stem and don’t produce a clean cut.
 
We Solidarity

We Solidarity

1,610
263
soaked in sea green, nute pack, and root pack over night. cut and put into cloner and foliar fed microbe tea. Airstone in cloner and 2ml/ gal rapidstart.

day 10 and almost all my clones have nubs, and those that are throwing roots are putting out 2+ inches a day. I had one touch the water overnight.

the only thing i did out of the ordinary was pre-soak in sea green and ogbiowar packs. i guess those products really do make the whole difference.
 
Unit541

Unit541

234
63
I'm a rockwool guy, and here's my process.

1. Take cut. I do NOT cut at 45 degrees. I cut straight across to keep the wound size minimal. I take larger cuts than most, only from the middle of the plant. Main tips root faster, but grow slower. Props to Woodsmaneh for explaining this elsewhere on this board.
2. Soak cutting in R/O for 24 hours. I will never believe anyone telling me this does not make a difference. It's night and day. I don't even check the PH.
3. Soak Rockwool in R/O for 4-6 hours, then flush it through thoroughly with R/O. Again, I don't even check the PH.
4. I make a single scrape about an inch long of the outer layer of the stem with a razor blade, then insert into Rockwool.
5. Mist dome (not cutting), and cover.
6. Open vents 25% after 2 days, and another 25% each following day until the vents are completely open. Two days later they're ready to start acclimating to room humidity, and that's when the roots show up en masse.

Now a couple of notes. I'm sure I'll catch hell for not PHing either the water my cuts soak in or the soak for the Rockwool. Let me explain. It has been my experience, and that of growers more experienced than I, that the primary affect of PH on Cannabis is an increase or decrease in the plants ability to uptake nutrients. With a little consideration, it seemed irrelevant to mess with PH when there's no roots to uptake any nutrients anyway. By this logic, PH would become a concern AFTER roots were present, but not before. This logic seems to apply in practice as well, because I haven't considered PH when it comes to cloning for years now, and I have good success.

Now on to the Rockwool, and soaking in UN-PH adjusted water. Strangely, it seems uncommon knowledge that a PH below 5.5 begins to actually break down the Rockwool itself, and the tiny air pockets affected by this are absolutely vital to your cuttings ability to grow roots. What we're trying to accomplish here is to purge the cube of the remnants of the production process. While a lower PH speeds this process, it's really easy for those less experienced with Rockwool to whip up a tub of water brought down to like 4.0 - 4.5 and drop a bunch of cubes in. The idea is that everything is fine because after a few hours the PH is reading 5.8 or 6.3 or something. What isn't accounted for is the two hours that the PH was too low, spent literally dissolving the rockwool.

Personally, I don't give a crap what PH my rockwool is, because I don't actually grow in it, just root and germinate, and as it happens, my plants don't need any nutrients until they've got roots that extend out of the rockwool. R/O water, regardless of PH, is caustic enough to leach the unwanted out of the cubes. At this point I'm feeding the roots (PH 5.2 - 5.3, low N and Hi P) and keeping the rockwool dry anyway, so PH never becomes relevant to the rockwool. Honestly, success is only marginally better in soaked and rinsed rockwool than with cubes straight out of the bag.

Another note on RH and the dome that I have come to accept, although not fully understand. One day I discovered that a pile of discarded, presumed failed clones were rooting prolifically in my trash bin, while others (cut on the same day) that had been living in a dome, were struggling and showing no signs of root generation. This led me to experiment with optimal RH for cloning. What I found is that new cuttings need at least a couple of days of full on, as close to 100% as you can get, RH to provide a buffer for the stress of being cut, and cut-off from it's supply. What I found, was that clones that are weaned off the humidity after the first couple of days, root much faster than clones that just live in the dome until they have roots. I accept this, and rationalize it by telling myself "why the hell would it bother to grow roots, if it can get all it's moisture from the air?". I have no idea how accurate it is, but the presumption is that it never goes looking for a drink if it never gets thirsty. Keeping the RH just a tad lower than they want seems to motivate rooting.

Again, all of this is just my own personal observations. As usual, your mileage may vary. I'm no "master grower" (whatever the hell that means), but I have been doing this for many years, and the above continues to work.
 
Capulator

Capulator

likes to smell trees.
Supporter
6,070
313
I'm a rockwool guy, and here's my process.

1. Take cut. I do NOT cut at 45 degrees. I cut straight across to keep the wound size minimal. I take larger cuts than most, only from the middle of the plant. Main tips root faster, but grow slower. Props to Woodsmaneh for explaining this elsewhere on this board.
2. Soak cutting in R/O for 24 hours. I will never believe anyone telling me this does not make a difference. It's night and day. I don't even check the PH.
3. Soak Rockwool in R/O for 4-6 hours, then flush it through thoroughly with R/O. Again, I don't even check the PH.
4. I make a single scrape about an inch long of the outer layer of the stem with a razor blade, then insert into Rockwool.
5. Mist dome (not cutting), and cover.
6. Open vents 25% after 2 days, and another 25% each following day until the vents are completely open. Two days later they're ready to start acclimating to room humidity, and that's when the roots show up en masse.

Now a couple of notes. I'm sure I'll catch hell for not PHing either the water my cuts soak in or the soak for the Rockwool. Let me explain. It has been my experience, and that of growers more experienced than I, that the primary affect of PH on Cannabis is an increase or decrease in the plants ability to uptake nutrients. With a little consideration, it seemed irrelevant to mess with PH when there's no roots to uptake any nutrients anyway. By this logic, PH would become a concern AFTER roots were present, but not before. This logic seems to apply in practice as well, because I haven't considered PH when it comes to cloning for years now, and I have good success.

Now on to the Rockwool, and soaking in UN-PH adjusted water. Strangely, it seems uncommon knowledge that a PH below 5.5 begins to actually break down the Rockwool itself, and the tiny air pockets affected by this are absolutely vital to your cuttings ability to grow roots. What we're trying to accomplish here is to purge the cube of the remnants of the production process. While a lower PH speeds this process, it's really easy for those less experienced with Rockwool to whip up a tub of water brought down to like 4.0 - 4.5 and drop a bunch of cubes in. The idea is that everything is fine because after a few hours the PH is reading 5.8 or 6.3 or something. What isn't accounted for is the two hours that the PH was too low, spent literally dissolving the rockwool.

Personally, I don't give a crap what PH my rockwool is, because I don't actually grow in it, just root and germinate, and as it happens, my plants don't need any nutrients until they've got roots that extend out of the rockwool. R/O water, regardless of PH, is caustic enough to leach the unwanted out of the cubes. At this point I'm feeding the roots (PH 5.2 - 5.3, low N and Hi P) and keeping the rockwool dry anyway, so PH never becomes relevant to the rockwool. Honestly, success is only marginally better in soaked and rinsed rockwool than with cubes straight out of the bag.

Another note on RH and the dome that I have come to accept, although not fully understand. One day I discovered that a pile of discarded, presumed failed clones were rooting prolifically in my trash bin, while others (cut on the same day) that had been living in a dome, were struggling and showing no signs of root generation. This led me to experiment with optimal RH for cloning. What I found is that new cuttings need at least a couple of days of full on, as close to 100% as you can get, RH to provide a buffer for the stress of being cut, and cut-off from it's supply. What I found, was that clones that are weaned off the humidity after the first couple of days, root much faster than clones that just live in the dome until they have roots. I accept this, and rationalize it by telling myself "why the hell would it bother to grow roots, if it can get all it's moisture from the air?". I have no idea how accurate it is, but the presumption is that it never goes looking for a drink if it never gets thirsty. Keeping the RH just a tad lower than they want seems to motivate rooting.

Again, all of this is just my own personal observations. As usual, your mileage may vary. I'm no "master grower" (whatever the hell that means), but I have been doing this for many years, and the above continues to work.


GREAT point on the pH.
 
caveman4.20

caveman4.20

5,969
313
IME host plants are most significant of course after your favorite procedure is down pact I just keep thinking of all the cuttings I've rooted out doors when cleaning up the bottom of plants.. Just sticking branches in dirt right next to the host

Wish it was that easy inside....
 
S

spings

1
1
I am fairly sucecessful when cloning, but I notice that sometimes the clones don't seem as robust as the mother. Any ideas on why this happens
 
caveman4.20

caveman4.20

5,969
313
Momentum is being interrupted when severred from host to regain momentum perfect conditions are required. Pheno familiararity is only way to dial in environment... People call what you explain genetic drift I think control of environment drifts ... Some plants get shocked and mutate never to return the same
 
Wbwidow

Wbwidow

316
93
IME host plants are most significant of course after your favorite procedure is down pact I just keep thinking of all the cuttings I've rooted out doors when cleaning up the bottom of plants.. Just sticking branches in dirt right next to the host

Wish it was that easy inside....
well ime it is. Cloning indoors seems like a easy process for me. I've taken cuts and put the cuts in the 3 gallon bag same as its donor and get roots 10-14 days later.
I don't ph anything atm and been having good success.

I also tried plenty of methods.
Solo cups with baggies over(works great and cheap)
Cake tray with top
Humidome
Just leaving them in a cup of water to root(this seems the longest to root but still roots).
I like the rootech cloning gel but all of them seem to work just as good.
 
X

X23hausted

8
1
I think there is a lot of great methods listed but I keep it simple and have 100% results. Be sure that all equipment is sterilized prior to beginning.

Take cuttings from healthy mother and place in cup of pHed water.

Trim off excess leaves and nodes.

Scrape off outer stem with razor blade and then split bottom of stem down center about 1/4in.

Trim off tips of larger fan leaves to lower transpiration.

Dip in Clonex.

Place in aero cloner with humidity dome with a pH at 5.8-6.0.

I run my pump 24/7 to keep my water warmer but this is not necessary depending on your climate.

On indica strains I see roots between 4-7 days and 7-10 on sativa strains.
 
CelticEBE

CelticEBE

1,831
263
Does anyone have any experience from recutting a cutting? I have a few cuts that are NOT rooting, however they look great, still nice and green with no signs of wilting. So what I am thinking of doing is recutting it. Reason being is I axed the mom, and I only have 4 cuts of her, none of which have rooted so far, going on 3 weeks come Saturday.

Just wondered if anyone has ever done anything like this.
 
B

Bangarang

220
43
I recenetly was talking to someone and they where telling me of a different cloning method. I am a rockwool guy and it works great. Well this dude takes the brown plastic seed trays by grodan and place his rockwool into the inserts. Does the normal procedure for his cuts but the part i do not get is coming up. Under the brown tray he always has a 1/4" of ph'd water with a surfactant. His reason was that the surfactant (CocoWet) helps the dome stay humid so that you do not have to spray. He stressed the importance of the water level always being the same so that the roots reach for it. His roots are long and healthy not like any rockwool cuts i have produced. Another important factor he talked about had to do with introducing air. He said that you have to do this very carefully or you will cause serious wilting. I assume this would occur because of the roots hanging from the bottom.
Let me know what you guys think.
 
reloader

reloader

448
93
This is a great thread, as cloning is so important to our growing process. I certainly don't do anything out of the ordinary here. I use soil, & sterilized equipment. I have a small cup of phed water ready & cloning powder. I take my cutting, clean it up (trimming lower leaves) then I use a razor blade to splice into the stem a bit. Then I simply put the cutting in the cup of water for a minute, then dip in cloning powder, then into the soil. I don't use domes, I just stick them in the corner of my veg room under warm mh light. They usually root in about a week or so, I have about a 90% success rate doing it this way.
 
jeffross57

jeffross57

3
3
I'm a rockwool guy, and here's my process.

1. Take cut. I do NOT cut at 45 degrees. I cut straight across to keep the wound size minimal. I take larger cuts than most, only from the middle of the plant. Main tips root faster, but grow slower. Props to Woodsmaneh for explaining this elsewhere on this board.
2. Soak cutting in R/O for 24 hours. I will never believe anyone telling me this does not make a difference. It's night and day. I don't even check the PH.
3. Soak Rockwool in R/O for 4-6 hours, then flush it through thoroughly with R/O. Again, I don't even check the PH.
4. I make a single scrape about an inch long of the outer layer of the stem with a razor blade, then insert into Rockwool.
5. Mist dome (not cutting), and cover.
6. Open vents 25% after 2 days, and another 25% each following day until the vents are completely open. Two days later they're ready to start acclimating to room humidity, and that's when the roots show up en masse.

Now a couple of notes. I'm sure I'll catch hell for not PHing either the water my cuts soak in or the soak for the Rockwool. Let me explain. It has been my experience, and that of growers more experienced than I, that the primary affect of PH on Cannabis is an increase or decrease in the plants ability to uptake nutrients. With a little consideration, it seemed irrelevant to mess with PH when there's no roots to uptake any nutrients anyway. By this logic, PH would become a concern AFTER roots were present, but not before. This logic seems to apply in practice as well, because I haven't considered PH when it comes to cloning for years now, and I have good success.

Now on to the Rockwool, and soaking in UN-PH adjusted water. Strangely, it seems uncommon knowledge that a PH below 5.5 begins to actually break down the Rockwool itself, and the tiny air pockets affected by this are absolutely vital to your cuttings ability to grow roots. What we're trying to accomplish here is to purge the cube of the remnants of the production process. While a lower PH speeds this process, it's really easy for those less experienced with Rockwool to whip up a tub of water brought down to like 4.0 - 4.5 and drop a bunch of cubes in. The idea is that everything is fine because after a few hours the PH is reading 5.8 or 6.3 or something. What isn't accounted for is the two hours that the PH was too low, spent literally dissolving the rockwool.

Personally, I don't give a crap what PH my rockwool is, because I don't actually grow in it, just root and germinate, and as it happens, my plants don't need any nutrients until they've got roots that extend out of the rockwool. R/O water, regardless of PH, is caustic enough to leach the unwanted out of the cubes. At this point I'm feeding the roots (PH 5.2 - 5.3, low N and Hi P) and keeping the rockwool dry anyway, so PH never becomes relevant to the rockwool. Honestly, success is only marginally better in soaked and rinsed rockwool than with cubes straight out of the bag.

Another note on RH and the dome that I have come to accept, although not fully understand. One day I discovered that a pile of discarded, presumed failed clones were rooting prolifically in my trash bin, while others (cut on the same day) that had been living in a dome, were struggling and showing no signs of root generation. This led me to experiment with optimal RH for cloning. What I found is that new cuttings need at least a couple of days of full on, as close to 100% as you can get, RH to provide a buffer for the stress of being cut, and cut-off from it's supply. What I found, was that clones that are weaned off the humidity after the first couple of days, root much faster than clones that just live in the dome until they have roots. I accept this, and rationalize it by telling myself "why the hell would it bother to grow roots, if it can get all it's moisture from the air?". I have no idea how accurate it is, but the presumption is that it never goes looking for a drink if it never gets thirsty. Keeping the RH just a tad lower than they want seems to motivate rooting.

Again, all of this is just my own personal observations. As usual, your mileage may vary. I'm no "master grower" (whatever the hell that means), but I have been doing this for many years, and the above continues to work.

This post of yours I found most helpful out of all the rest, and seems the most logical. I've been doing essentially the same thing you have, but have struggled lately with one particular strain in keeping it from damping off. After reading your post, I believe the problem's been not allowing the clones enough fresh air, and too much time under the domes in humid conditions. I don't even spray the cuttings except when they initially get placed under the domes either. I have found over the years though, that some strains are faster rooters than others. My blue dream hardly ever struggled, while some of the more big-leaved indicas have a harder time. I do pH the rockwool cubes for a couple hours in 5.5, but think it has little to do with their success or failure because, as you mentioned, pH is only important AFTER the plant has roots.
 
jitty bo

jitty bo

101
28
great thread this reassured me that I am on the right path
 
cannapits

cannapits

Original Swamp Fam
Supporter
905
243
sounds like everyone has their own solid way. I use rockwool and ph down but never soak the cubes. only thing different from all I read is I cut the leaves on cuts in half. dont need a ton of leaf for cloning. I also just mist the dome and not the cuts. and I always burp them for a min after day three. fresh air seems to help prevent mold and rot.
 
20kwDreamer

20kwDreamer

80
18
Exactly what I do, pH the 2" cubes to 5.8 using tap water that's been air bubbled for a day or two to de-chlorinate, good shake to rid excess moisture. Cut the stem flat, cut the finger tips off the leaves, light dip in Olivias and into the cube they go. Burp once a day, shake off dome, mist the dome before putting it back on.
 
Komoshan

Komoshan

16
3
Old thread but can't find anything on cloning in DE, anyone do this? do you combine seaweed powder or rapid rooter or anything withit? thanks,
 
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