Lionstailling anyone heard of?

[stanklungs]

Ok so heres something thats been on my mind as of late, pruning. With all the crazy technology out there and advanced nutrients i feel like proper prunning has become of less of a concern, but the difference between a well pruned and trained plant is night and day.

When i was young i learned that you want to keep the lower parts of your plant clean, and expose as many bud sights as possible to light. So over the years this has been my method, and its worked; cant complain.

Well now in my readings and study i have learned the plant and tree community outside of cannabis has had some serious devolpments in how you prune your plants, especially in the last three years.

So this is what brings me to the term of lionstailling. Now there are a few reasons to prune a plants but what im focusing on is how it affects the hormones in the plant and thus how it grows. For example when a tree grows they recommend now not pruning off lower branches without good reason and keeping away from cleaning up the inside of a plant so that it only has a nice canopy on the outside gathering light.

This is because when a tree or plant loses its lower branches or its branches are cleaned so that only 1/3 of the brach has all the foliage(hence lionstailling because the branch looks like a loins tail with a little puff on the end), the plant reacts by stretching because in nature when a plant lose foliage or branches it is because they werent getting enought light. Which means the plant has to out stretch is competition to get that light.

Now i know that doesnt sound like a bad thing we all love big sexy plants, but what i dont want is an uncessary stretching in my buds. So what im wondering is who out there has experimented with pruning and what have you noticed do you have a better a results from your plants being clean or with a bit more leaf. Does the same plant grown out do better than that plant grown bushy. Now i know genetics plays a huge role, but i be curious in hearing about others methods and ways of shaping their girls to get the most from them.

Happy growings,

 

[Seamaiden]

Hmmm, well, IME, if allowed to grow bushy then the 'fruits' aren't as big or appealing that result from those lower branches. What you post makes sense in light of what I've learned about how plants react to various stimuli, but for me, specifically for OD growing where you really *can* just let 'em go, the results are just ok. It's really better to clean out the underneath and inside areas of the plant once it's hit its fullest canopy growth.

Perhaps part of the difference is the fact that trees are perennials and cannabis is an annual.

 

[Slowitdown]

One of the big reasons I prune and clean up my plants is bec I do not want the popcorn buds on the bottom. They receive no light hence no growth... All it does is slow trimming down by up to 40% and it ends up going in the trash anyway. I like to train and prune my plants always have always will. I have noticed some strains react different but in the end if done correctly the end product is always better.

 

[soserthc1]

In containing growing I feel a trim is beneficial to growth at the top , if trained for multi-tops and it also increases air flow thru the plants which is also beneficial and unless your using several vertical lights or have great light penetration then as @Slowitdown said the bottom buds are usually larf that gets trashed or made into oil etc
But if growing in beds from clones and having good light penetration your lower nugs can also be beneficial, cruise thru grow masters thread and tell me he should of trimmed his plants .......nope
So alot factors in when trimming as does most parts of growing , go with what works best for you and experiment to always try to improve

 

[respect]

In containing growing I feel a trim is beneficial to growth at the top , if trained for multi-tops and it also increases air flow thru the plants which is also beneficial and unless your using several vertical lights or have great light penetration then as @Slowitdown said the bottom buds are usually larf that gets trashed or made into oil etc
But if growing in beds from clones and having good light penetration your lower nugs can also be beneficial, cruise thru grow masters thread and tell me he should of trimmed his plants .......nope
So alot factors in when trimming as does most parts of growing , go with what works best for you and experiment to always try to improve

I agree first of all but the reason GM has that success is because he grows fewer and shorter plants in those beds. The bottom line is light penetration. My plants are 4 to 5 ft and there's 9 per 4x4. If I didn't prune, defoliate and shave their legs my harvest would be a joke. GM flips his plants when they're tiny compared to me. I flip @ 24 inches.

 

[stanklungs]

Glad to hear from ya'll that definitely reaffirms my current practices except i dont remove all the larfe from the bottom, a lot of it yes, but i find the smaller nuggets pack a lot of flavor and a clearer high. Which i validate in my head because those lower nugs are protected from the intense light which can degrade the cannabinoids. At least it does off the plant so why wouldnt light affect cannabinoids pre-harvest.

Which i guess raises the question by leaving a plant with more leaf lead to more complex high or a clearer one because the nuggets have been more protected and thus have less CBN. However i dont know many growers out their that would be willing to trade yeild for the psychoactive effects.

But i think your right soserthc1 its about works best for you. I will be definitely being doing some controlled experiments when it comes to pruning. Im curious instead of leaving a nice thick canopy if i open it up a bit so light can get to those lower fan leaves will they produce more sugars for growth of those nugs, and if that works will they become of enough weight where they can actually make a difference in my final results then i would get from removing them and trying to convert that sugar to my top nuggets. A few extra grams per plant can really add up in the long run after all. This will also help with anserwing my loinstailling question, because under the idea of converting sugars and hormones to the top of branch by pruning the lower half i am interested in seeing where all that sugar is going; into the bud or into the stem. Though if the stems get longer then more bud sights are getting exposed to light which could mean more bud lol. Wheww im getting myself caught in a wirlwind of this and thats here.

I question this practice only because when reading up on botany i learned that each branch in a plant is self-sustaining. While the main stalk is just a highway for food and water to commute up and down to the branch, and that only does a branch take sugars from the roots and stalks when its under stress, and if your plants under stress most likely your yeilds and quality wont be their anyways. lol maybe ive just been reading too much. Anyways let see how she grows.

 

[stutter]

i have always trimmed my scrogs in a certain way which i think is similar to what your saying, i call it the satellite dish method. i dont prune away the lower foliage, i let the whole plant go through stretch, then once im happy that she has reached her final height thats when i start picking away at leaves.

i dont clear out the under growth, instead i leave the undergrowth and start plucking away the top leaves, right down to the screen (i do this over a few days so as not to stress the plants too much but i think they like a little stress in early bloom anyway, after all isnt that what PK boosters are all about). under the screen i leave a large mess of big fan leaves etc. also i feel if a large fan leaf comes from a node where there is a bud site it will directly fuel that bud site, so i will often see my plants throwing those large fans up like catchers mitts or big hands reaching for the light, im sure you all have seen what i mean, one of those big fans on the outskirts of the grow reaching directly up vertical catching all the light they can and powering a bud site down low enough you didnt think it would do anything but as song as one of those leaves is catching light it comes out plump and juicy.

in this way i end up with what i refer to as a satellite dish, a big green bed of leaves that catches any light missed by the colas and also that act as lungs and energy reserves for the plant, and the colas are the antenna that reach up from the dish catching light on the exposed bud sites.

im currently doing a scrog where i didnt use my usual satellite method and stripped more of the lower growth and i feel like i have a hollow plant empty underneath with a top canopy that actually blocks light, i dont think im going to yield as well as i could have using the satellite method

 

[stanklungs]

Very interesting stutter im glad to hear someone else out there is on this mindset, satellite method also sounds catchy. Im hoping to have similar results when i give it a shot on a few plants next round, im going to do a control with one half being pruned like ive always done clean below but a nice full canopy, and then the second half like you described. My hypothesis is that ill get solid bud development all the way through the plant without sacrificing too much from the dominant buds.

Best senario being of course i maintain the dominant buds they'll just be a little more compact and the only weight that i lose is in that large stem that runs through the middle of the bud. More bud less stem makes me a happy toker.

 

[stutter]

i dont know how it will convert to traditional growing but in scrog it works a treat

 

[Dr.Trichome]

Stanklung....
Technique is variable..
Here's what I learned from experience.
Shaping and structure varies by nature of the space and vision of a greenthumb.
That being.. remove lower SHOOTS, inner shoots ect to re-direct growth energy.
Leave the leaves. They are energy factories even in the shade, and the plant gives a lower stress response to lower/shaded shoots being removed than to any healthy fan leaves being removed.
And in my experience not having just a skeleton at the bottom seems to help with stretch.
Hope that helps.

 

[Dr.Trichome]

Leaves are energy sources.
Remove em from up top and they have to get it from lower.
That pulls it through the feed tube UP to the cola, yes thereby increasing the lower site bud size. At a sacrifice to the colas above.
That now have a less effective feeding system.
Remove shoots before flip down to your effective light penetration point. Now the less effective leaves with less light are are sending the sugars they will make (just less them the top ones) upward with the
Flow of water and nutrients commin up feeding the most effecrive part up top.

 

[stanklungs]

So if i get what your saying. Remove the lower stem but leave the fan leaves that supply them because they will still catch light and produce engery; which in turn the rest of the plant can use. So the plant is still being cleaned up but not skeletonized. I like it because its simple and makes sense. Also with the fan leaves catching light on the lower part of the branches i bet you dont get that unwanted stretch. The logic sounds good. Thanks =)

 

[Dr.Trichome]

Glad it helps.
Yea,Thats the idea.
And it's easy to personalize.
Just the top canopy of the pic had any bud sites. But I left every healty leaf.

 

[stanklungs]

Ah very pretty