Looking For A Simple Organic Soil.

leadsled · Dec 19, 2015

organaman said:
who can help me with this? looking for a simple organic soil that wont take me weeks to find 15 amendments, looking for a simpler organic soil for an indoor grow. any recipes for a first time organic head would be great. don't think i want to use a tea for my first organic grow so something were i can just water and go would be great thanks ahead of time.

I can help.

Do you want to do water only because adding anything else cost $$$ ?

You mention no teas. That is fine. But what is your concern or reason for being hesitant about anything other than water?

I ask so we can learn more about your approach and then share the options you have.
Will keep it simple so that way can walk before you run.

What about spending an extra 20 bucks on a humic acid trace mineral blend that treats 300 gallons of water. Would add to your water, once every 2 weeks.
OR for a little more $$ get some kelp fish and molasses and feed the soil every week or two.

You can to change your mindset. Now farming is about feeding the soil, and then the soil feeds the plant. Cover crops and some carbon inputs to feed the microbiology will help out and not make things too much more complicated. If you want to know more please ask.

Here is the organic living soil recipe:
10 parts to the mix.
6 amendments to source.
Get the best organic inputs. Some growers have been using the same soil for over 10 years.

Please note:
Majority of compost is not good compost for putting int he soil. It has excess potassium and that hinders the uptake of calcium and magnesium. (also the root cause of many pest and disease problems but that is for another post.)
Will be fine for a compost extract or aact brew but not ideal for 1/6th of a soil mix.

Recipe.
1/2 Part Earth Worm Casting
1/2 Part Fungal Compost or Malibu Compost.
1 Part Sphagnum Peat Moss
1/3 Part GrowStones, rice hulls, vermiculite, lava, pumice, you choose your aeration.
Kelp Meal @ 1/2 Cup per cubic foot
Neem Cake @ 1/2 cup per cubic foot
Crustacean Meal @ 1/2 cup per cubic foot
Rock Dust @ 2 Cups Per Cubic Foot
Ag Gypsum @ 1 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Oyster Shell Flour @ 1 Cup Per Cubic Foot.

You can buy all the amendments online premixed and then add to peat compost and aeration.

If you do not want to buy a 50lb bag of each amendment, you can also purchase smaller amounts as little as a lb. Usually online or locally if your hydro store nursery etc carries down to earth.

Ideally let sit for at least 10 days before planting freshly rooted clones.

Got any questions please ask?

HippyFarmerT · Dec 29, 2015

No one has really mentioned it but buildasoil.com. If you have a large garden then it may not be the most cost effective but 2cu ft of 'coots premixed organic living soil' with all the amendments lead said runs about $32/cuft. And with that mix you pretty well only need water and molasses the whole run. <$100 and you have enough soil, amendments, water/molasses for the whole cycle. As soon as you look into recycling, that $100 could go a long way. Hope it helps!

Edit: they also have a very complete cover crop mix with grasses, clover, short companion crops. That's if you go into recycling and whatnot! Sorry to ramble

gardnguyahoy · Dec 29, 2015

The OP Posted this on Christmas last year and never responded after that. You guys might be beating a dead horse

Dabominable · Dec 29, 2015

I like horsiiiiies! I was gonna say the most organic mix i've heard of is getting an oil toilet, shitting in it, throw in some perlite, plant seeds, pee when it needs it (jkkkk)

leadsled · Dec 30, 2015

IF you want good results, Please do not use the mix I posted!! It has way too much N.
Sorry I should have know better than to trust someone elses math!!

I modified it to make it more balanced in potassium, but needs more work.

The build a soil mix is even more unbalanced than above.

Most people do not test the soil mix, and then if they do. then do not test for N.

That approx 3 to 6 times as much N than you need in a soil mix.
Explains why alot of growers with los mix have plants that look overdosed on N

Bulldog11 · Dec 30, 2015

leadsled said:
Explains why alot of growers with los mix have plants that look overdosed on N

Then they feed N every other watering, yikes!

Bulldog11 · Dec 30, 2015

2015 soil recipebased on coots mix / boobs mix:

makes 40 yards total:

33% lava rock (12 yards)
33% peat (12 yards)
33% compost (12 yards) [10 yds Diestel turkey compost, 2 yds Bu's Blend organic compost]

plus...

240 lbskelpmeal
220 lbs crab meal
260 lbs gypsum
240 lbs oyster flour
220 lbs neem meal
1000 lbs glacial rock dust

leadsled · Dec 30, 2015

Bulldog11 said:
2015 soil recipebased on coots mix / boobs mix:

makes 40 yards total:

33% lava rock (12 yards)
33% peat (12 yards)
33% compost (12 yards) [10 yds Diestel turkey compost, 2 yds Bu's Blend organic compost]

plus...

240 lbskelpmeal
220 lbs crab meal
260 lbs gypsum
240 lbs oyster flour
220 lbs neem meal
1000 lbs glacial rock dust

Check out the math at that rate.

Neem cake at the rate is about 5.5 lbs per yard.
That is 26,620 lbs of neem cake per acre.

6% of 26620 is 1595 lbs per acre of nitrogen from neem cake alone!!!

Neem resource rate is 250-450lbs per acre of neem cake. 6% of 450 is 27 lbs of nitrogen. That is more LIKE IT

Bulldog11 · Dec 30, 2015

leadsled said:
Check out the math at that rate.

Neem cake at the rate is about 5.5 lbs per yard.
That is 26,620 lbs of neem cake per acre.

6% of 26620 is 1595 lbs per acre of nitrogen from neem cake alone!!!

Neem resource rate is 250-450lbs per acre of neem cake. 6% of 450 is 27 lbs of nitrogen. That is more LIKE IT

That is why I posted that mix. Boobs and his crew had a great year that year. One of the best gardens I have been privileged to visit. Outdoor buds, hug plants, indoor quality. These guys really have their stuff down. A true inspiration.

I do however agree with the high N coming from the Neem. Without knowing the values of the compost alone, I would think the neem could be taken out of that mix entirely. Like I said though, their plants showed zero signs of too much N.

leadsled · Dec 30, 2015

Bulldog11 said:
That is why I posted that mix. Boobs and his crew had a great year that year. One of the best gardens I have been privileged to visit. Outdoor buds, hug plants, indoor quality. These guys really have their stuff down. A true inspiration.

I do however agree with the high N coming from the Neem. Without knowing the values of the compost alone, I would think the neem could be taken out of that mix entirely. Like I said though, their plants showed zero signs of too much N.

Thanks for sharing. I also wonder about how much the Neem cake anti nitrification properties come into play.. I used about 1/4 the rate of neem cake and is working well. Always more to learn and test.

Seamaiden · Dec 31, 2015

I wish I could take some posts of this thread and add them to the organic soil thread. Did I remember to sticky that other thread?

LibertyHails · Jan 7, 2016

Dunge said:
The reason I use Mirical gro blood and bone meal is that's what I can get and my understanding is that these products are as organic as the same thing by other providers.
I could be wrong about that.
Is your beef against the company or the material?

I have a problem with people/companies that label their stuff as organic when it is most definitely not. I do not trust monsanto or any brand owned by them. They want to patent specific strains and control every aspect of the industry. If you do not have access to a grow store buy online, you can find many organic non monsanto products. If you truly want to grow organic monsanto is NOT the way to go.

leadsled · Jan 8, 2016

leadsled said:
Check out the math at that rate.

Neem cake at the rate is about 5.5 lbs per yard.
That is 26,620 lbs of neem cake per acre.

6% of 26620 is 1595 lbs per acre of nitrogen from neem cake alone!!!

Neem resource rate is 250-450lbs per acre of neem cake. 6% of 450 is 27 lbs of nitrogen. That is more LIKE IT

MY above quoted math was incorrect. I explained the error and correction in the organic soil mix thread.
Converting yards to acres will be incorrect.
Acre-foot to cubic foot is correct.

neem seed meal is 6-1-2
each number is percentage of npk.

1/2 cup of neem seed meal weights 4oz.
1 cubic foot is 7.448 gallons of soil
1 acre foot is equal to 43559.9 cubic feet
4 x 43559.9 = 174236 oz.
174236 oz = 10889.75 lbs.
That rate converted to 1 acre is 10,889.75 lbs neem cake.

1/2 cup per cubic foot delivers:
653.385 lbs N per acre.
108.89 lbs P per acre.
217.7 lbs K per acre

hemp needs at least 150kg hectacre (133 lbs per acre) for seed production.
similar N levels are needed for drug production.

More than 150kg N hectacre will not increase yield but then restore soil N.

pg. 163 hemp disease and pests.

-----

Anti nitrification properties of neem cake.

Dunge · Jan 8, 2016

LibertyHails said:
I have a problem with people/companies that label their stuff as organic when it is most definitely not. I do not trust monsanto or any brand owned by them. They want to patent specific strains and control every aspect of the industry. If you do not have access to a grow store buy online, you can find many organic non monsanto products. If you truly want to grow organic monsanto is NOT the way to go.

Thanks for clarifying that your beef is against big pharma. I get that.

I have gotten the sense that some growers refuse to use blood meal on ethical grounds. So the same logic extends to bone meal. I understand this too, but as an admitted carnivore, I allow these into my soil.

Seamaiden · Jan 8, 2016

I use them both extensively, including in my AP system.

LibertyHails · Jan 21, 2016

Dunge said:
Thanks for clarifying that your beef is against big pharma. I get that.

I have gotten the sense that some growers refuse to use blood meal on ethical grounds. So the same logic extends to bone meal. I understand this too, but as an admitted carnivore, I allow these into my soil.

Its not that i hate all animal products, I am also a meat eater. its just where it is sourced from and the quality of everything used in the process.

keiksweat · Feb 6, 2016

Monsanto are blood ducking animals

Patanjali · Feb 6, 2016

LibertyHails said:
Its not that i hate all animal products, I am also a meat eater. its just where it is sourced from and the quality of everything used in the process.

You are very correct. What is organic about hormone added, antibiotic cow blood that is scraped up off the slaughter house floor? How is that acceptable as an 'organic' amendment? It's called big company lobbying. What are we going to do with all this waste? Hey, let's sell it to the farmers! Bio-solids, same deal.

Exciting times to say the least...

P-

Patanjali · Feb 6, 2016

I couldn't even start to tell you what my NPK is. Must be the neem that's giving me these small buds...

P-

Patanjali · Feb 6, 2016

leadsled said:
Check out the math at that rate.

Neem cake at the rate is about 5.5 lbs per yard.
That is 26,620 lbs of neem cake per acre.

6% of 26620 is 1595 lbs per acre of nitrogen from neem cake alone!!!

Neem resource rate is 250-450lbs per acre of neem cake. 6% of 450 is 27 lbs of nitrogen. That is more LIKE IT

What about the blood meal people are adding to their mixes? If you're into soil balancing (I'm not) blood meal is 12-0-0. and how much blood meal are people adding?

Just thinking...

P-

Edit: Food for thought on soil balancing:
http://onpasture.com/2014/06/23/soil-balancing-does-it-work/

Looking For A Simple Organic Soil.

Looking For A Simple Organic Soil.

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Looking For A Simple Organic Soil.

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