Looking To Setup A Space With Odd Constraints; Looking For Ideas.

[MGRox]

I've been eyeballing a space that I could use for a while now and possibly would have done something already; if I could make my mind up on what to do. I already have a main space and such (veg and hps flower), so this space will be extra and specific for flower; at least if I can make it work.

So, the space is (that I'm looking to use); 4' x 4' x 42" tall.
yep, just 3 and a half foot tall, though if this works well, I "could" use more than 4x4, but my height would be the same.

There's a couple of things I just can't seem to make my mind up on and would love to hear anyone who has ideas or thoughts.

--What type of lighting would / could / should be used that would be optimal / best / lesser evil?

--What type of watering / feeding system would you use in this case (all options being open).

--What would be the best total numbers of specimens in this space / max height / best container size?

I suppose there are only 2 components, at this point, that are not variable; the height of the space and taking quality as first priority. I'm a type that likes to focus on efficiency, so that is a goal for sure, but not at the cost of quality.

I look forward to hearing thoughts from anyone here and am interested to see what things get suggested.

 

[fishwhistle]

T5 or LED maybe?I dont know if you could even use a CMH 315 in that short of a space and get a good light spread.How about a few vert 400s and a hedge on each side,That way your not taking away headroom,tough one.

 

[MGRox]

Thanks Fishwhistle for those thoughts!
I hadn't yet considered vert'ing some 400's that's a decent idea. I wonder though if it would impact the efficiency of the space as I would have volume necessary for a bulb / plant gap? I seem to end up around T5's or led's too when I think about it, but am not sure there either lol. With T5's, I'm not sure if I've seen a grow journal using those or if they even could work (HO or VHO). LED's on the other hand, I'm worried of having a high initial cost (not that it in itself is an issue) and ending up with some product that looks like a teens' first go using dad's shoplight :D (no offense to any teens or LEDs).

I know from back in the fish store days, that T12 VHO's could grow SPS @ similar rates to MH; but required the same watts and was just a touch slower growth with VHO (less lumens). From this past experience it would seem possible for Floro's to work, but I'm not sure. I suppose we could even consider PC (cfl) bulbs as an analog here too.

I imagine all of this is going to end up tying together. As the light may determine the plant number / size and thus determine the best feeding / watering method. Though, my brain tends to jump to visualizing a SOG of small plants at least.

having this open to many minds should surely help derive an optimal solution.

 

[fishwhistle]

Maybe 1 vert 400 or 600 with 4-6 plants around it?that ceiling height is so low theres almost no room for a horizontal light unless it thin like led or t5 but im not a fan of going that route.Heat might be an issue with low ceilings too,maybe put the light it in a cool tube?

 

[william76]

Strain would be important too,ud need something with zero stretch,76

 

[happy b]

How about a smaller wattage hps in air cooled hood doing a small sog using just rooted cuttings and putting em straight to 12/12.thats if your not worried about a plant count?

 

[MGRox]

Ya @fishwhistle if I end up with a HID lamp I would probably air cool it for sure. I know in my main area (2x600) that air cooling dropped my room by 6-8 degrees, so I could imagine that space without cooling...ouch.

@william76 that's a good point. In years past, I've not had access to varieties and its' something I've been changing over the last year (beans). ATM though, I still have my affie dom Bullrider and it does like the stretch. I'm assuming here that you are referring to (most likely) a kush dom? Or what other type would you suggest here?

@happy b xD, your probably the closest to suggesting one of my top "considerations" at this point. I've considered doing something like 4 x 150 hps's (60,000 Lu) and making my own air cooling system. I also have considered 4-5 x 100w (36,000 Lu), possibly with supplemental spectrum, but the Lumens per watt drop quite a bit below 150's.

I'm not too far into figuring out plant numbers or nutrient delivery yet, but do know I'll have to control overall size. William had a good point with using a no stretch variety and Happy had a good thought with "straight to 12hr". I suppose down this avenue i could also ; use spectrum some to slow stretch or nutes too; I would have to see there though.

I've mentioned I'm still leary of the LED's and even T5's, though more worried about penetration with T5's vs LED's. Of course, I will probably only have to penetrate maybe 12" max.

To cover all possible ideas so far then;

1 - 400-600 W HPS vertical air cooled ( 60-90,000 Lu)
4 - 150w HPS Horizontal, Spaced and air cooled (60,000 Lu)
4 - 100w HPS horizontal, spaced air cooled w/ LED supplement ( 40,000 Lu)
6 - 54W T5 HO horizontal 300w total ( 30,000 Lu)

1 - BML, Illumitex or Advanced 300w LED (12,000 Lu +/-)
8 - Cree Cobs (3k, 5k) and a little 660 red 300w ( 36,000 Lu +/-)

Thank you for the the ideas and suggestions so far. I would still love to hear more ideas (or further ideas) if anyone has them; please feel free. I'm not in any hurry, so I'm willing to try and figure out the best option.

 

[Dunge]

Vertical T-5s.
I have long imagined naked T-5s hanging into my tops.
Maybe even feed wires from both ends, but dangling wires from above would be better than including the light blocking housing.
Might need to solder wires onto the lamp terminals.
Anybody know how to do this? (The idea, not the soldering)

 

[MGRox]

@ Dunge ty for the suggestion there!

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean exactly. When you say vertical, then I envision bulbs beside and in parallel to the main stems; but then when you mention hanging "into tops" I'm more thinking of horizontal. Could you clarify this some?

At one point I did a bunch of scribbles on paper, trying to think of different layouts. I suppose I did consider a "checkerboard" type pattern of vertical (parallel to main stem) T5's, though I worried total bulb numbers would add up and also you would still need some top light (I believe). Were you thinking something like this?

If I do T5's (and may also relate to your suggestion); I would use the electronic HF ballasts from the aquarium trade. It used to be an "Ice Cap 440 or 660", but I'm not sure if that version is still around. At any rate, these come with 8' wiring harnesses; so you can place bulbs how you like (e.g. building a reef hood or vert'ing T5's). For the connections to the bulb, I would use the waterproof "end caps" that are also in the aquarium industry and the whole setup would be no solder. This would make it easy to place bulbs in whatever orientation chosen.

I still want to keep all options on the table; heck or any possible combination too. Although I did first start with a micro back in the day; i did use a 70w hps, so I never got to try CFL or T5's (lol @ got to try). It may be that I'll have to try some various testing first, I dunno.

Thanks again to all the suggestions so far and any others that anyone might think of (or has tried).

 

[Smokey503ski]

Any reason why you can't make this new space dedicated for clones and small plants? Then the other spaces for flowing?

 

[north knect]

Mainline and Bonzai that shit..make the two shoots grow horizontal..think it would be interesting to try out

 

[MGRox]

@Smokey503ski Thank you for the suggestion there!! I guess my main area (for small stuff and cuts) is a fairly small area (36" x 18"), but is already divided into 3 vertical tiers. The main "floor" area has 2 - 6's and is also a pretty small area. Over the years I've thought about how to make it more efficient but haven't been able to as of yet. I rotate things each week, so I do need a bit of room to get around things. I'll scratch some more on paper to see if I can possibly maximize it better. ATM, I plan on eventually getting Gavita; but just not lookin' forward to havin' to get the Ac/De's hoods xD.

@north knect Thank you also for your suggestion!! I had not put much thought into mainlining that area vs. SOG; though If you can buy it, I did think about "horizontal" at least. I did some reading on the various tropism's and which is greater. If I was to run any length of horizontal branching (either mainline or physical horizontal mounting), I would be very inclined to run lighting under and on top of the plants. Then I was back to wondering about too many bulbs or efficiency. Would you worry about an under light in that situation? Also, if you were to mainline bonzai in this space; how many numbers would you try to run?

I suppose one motivator for this area is to have a place for testing various things. I've got a proverbial bean salad that "could" be expedited with another area. Further at times I make my own "salads" and it would be nice to have space separate. Finally, I just like to play around with things (both design and hort.), so I really will get a kick out of "Figuring this area out" as well as various "Scary testing" I may try.

It does kinda suck so far, as, one day I'm leaning in a particular direction; then the next I'm thinking other things. I just can't seem to make my mind up. It may very well behoove me to take another look at my main area though...... if I could somehow get an area with proper height, it would be an HPS no brainer.

Thanks again for all the thoughts so far. There has been some great and logical suggestions and I do appreciate it! I'm always open and welcome ideas and love to discuss things, so feel free.

 

[north knect]

@Smokey503ski Thank you for the suggestion there!! I guess my main area (for small stuff and cuts) is a fairly small area (36" x 18"), but is already divided into 3 vertical tiers. The main "floor" area has 2 - 6's and is also a pretty small area. Over the years I've thought about how to make it more efficient but haven't been able to as of yet. I rotate things each week, so I do need a bit of room to get around things. I'll scratch some more on paper to see if I can possibly maximize it better. ATM, I plan on eventually getting Gavita; but just not lookin' forward to havin' to get the Ac/De's hoods xD.

@north knect Thank you also for your suggestion!! I had not put much thought into mainlining that area vs. SOG; though If you can buy it, I did think about "horizontal" at least. I did some reading on the various tropism's and which is greater. If I was to run any length of horizontal branching (either mainline or physical horizontal mounting), I would be very inclined to run lighting under and on top of the plants. Then I was back to wondering about too many bulbs or efficiency. Would you worry about an under light in that situation? Also, if you were to mainline bonzai in this space; how many numbers would you try to run?

I suppose one motivator for this area is to have a place for testing various things. I've got a proverbial bean salad that "could" be expedited with another area. Further at times I make my own "salads" and it would be nice to have space separate. Finally, I just like to play around with things (both design and hort.), so I really will get a kick out of "Figuring this area out" as well as various "Scary testing" I may try.

It does kinda suck so far, as, one day I'm leaning in a particular direction; then the next I'm thinking other things. I just can't seem to make my mind up. It may very well behoove me to take another look at my main area though...... if I could somehow get an area with proper height, it would be an HPS no brainer.

Thanks again for all the thoughts so far. There has been some great and logical suggestions and I do appreciate it! I'm always open and welcome ideas and love to discuss things, so feel free.

I myself would probably only top once and mainline the two tops tying down horizontally as it grows...keeping the tips of the branches pretty well level with ur hub..u will notice all your bud sites flowering up to the lights so under lighting wouldn't be necessary...I've seen this done with decent results..I just saw a video on YouTube where the person has a small plant doing this..il try n find it and post it so u can see some what exactly wat I'm trying to explain..the clip has nothing to do with the technique it's a review on some sweet goodys so ignore the boring first part lol

 

[north knect]

 

[north knect]

The plant part is like the last minute-ish..u can see the "side branching" now grows up and they could be topped aswell then scroged to keep your overall height at a very minamel..well hope this sparks some ideas and best of luck :D

 

[jpzz]

I got 48 inches of height and I have to really really prune and LST to keep my plants from hitting the bulb. If I had to do it over I'd make the box at least 6 inches taller. I'm using a 250 watt bulb in an air cooled hood.

 

[MGRox]

@north knect Ty for those posts and the video!!
I suppose my first run I had ever finished was a pretty small space and I guess I did that xD. I split to 4 main branches and had em' all tied back to a rectangle shaped window planter. The area was only 20" wide x 8" deep x 18" high. Just used a 70w and a couple 13w PC's back then. I believe it was 45 gms. I still love the micro concept I must say.

@jpzz Ty you for giving a heads up with your experiences! Is your 48" total height or height below the light? How large is your area also?

I am still investigating if I can possibly redo my main area in any way to avert needing this space and there may be a chance. However, I still have an itch to try something like this hehe. I'll report back if I do happen to figure out a different arrangement. I'm definitely worried about trying to flower with another light source besides HPS.

Thanks again to all the ideas and suggestions so far!

 

[Hopefull Stoner]

calculate the stretch of the genetics you're gonna use. then just grow them normally in veg, repot them for flower and make it so that you trepot in a container with the plants lying perpendicular to the floor. so then finish flowering, and of course you have to tie down the main stem most of the way. the branches will then flower, and rise to the light. 4 x stretch means side branches shouldn't be over 8" once they go horizontal. if you're npot sure use 6" to be safe. u shouldn't have stuff that's gonna sttrecth more than 3 x though for a set up like that and 2x stretch max is even better.