Lowering PH

[Fangthane]

Bet you dont have enough chlorine to matter either. The plants actually use some.


I bubbled buckets of water and phed when i was new. Dropped both and my plants stayed healthier. Noticed right away. The acid was building up in the soil and eventually dropping my ph.

I'm not sure whether I have chlorine or chloramine. When I fill up a gallon jug with tap water, I can put my nose right up to the opening and it definitely smells vaguely like a swimming pool. Couple of drops of Prime and I don't smell anything. I wasn't really worried about the plants themselves; I was more concerned with preserving whatever microbial life may be floating around my soil.

My plants mostly start getting kinda ugly part-way through flower. I'm wondering if maybe all the extra P I've been giving them when I use a metric shit-ton of pH Down may be contributing to the issues I tend to have later in the plants' lives. Kinda hoping this no-pH thing works out for me. It's my water's high pH starting point that always made me think twice when I wanted to stop adjusting it.

 

[Aqua Man]

Bet you dont have enough chlorine to matter either. The plants actually use some.


I bubbled buckets of water and phed when i was new. Dropped both and my plants stayed healthier. Noticed right away. The acid was building up in the soil and eventually dropping my ph.

Exactly... About the only time I would worry about chlorine is for teas. I use prime if I do a full res change just because I keep my filter seeded but that almost never happens.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I'm not sure whether I have chlorine or chloramine. When I fill up a gallon jug with tap water, I can put my nose right up to the opening and it definitely smells vaguely like a swimming pool. Couple of drops of Prime and I don't smell anything. I wasn't really worried about the plants themselves; I was more concerned with preserving whatever microbial life may be floating around my soil.

My plants mostly start getting kinda ugly part-way through flower. I'm wondering if maybe all the extra P I've been giving them when I use a metric shit-ton of pH Down may be contributing to the issues I tend to have later in the plants' lives. Kinda hoping this no-pH thing works out for me. It's my water's high pH starting point that always made me think twice when I wanted to stop adjusting it.

If its chlorine and not chloromine the smell will dissipate pretty quickly when poured. So you wouldn't smell chlorine in an hour or two in an open bucket.

Chloromine will still smell. But of it is very mild and you have to get real close with your nose it is only a few ppm. Not harmful. You should be able to get a water report.

 

[CTAZ13]

Promix has buffers built into it, which will try to offset the tendency for fertilizers to lower the Ph. I grow in Promix and I really can't say that I've ever had a Ph problem.... and you are correct in most new growers stumble on Ph and overfeeding. Most tap water is close to neutral in Ph, and shouldn't cause issues and can actually benefit the plants by supplying magnesium and other minerals. The key is "most" tap water, not all. If your Ph is excessively high in your water, you can either filter it (RO), distill it, or lower the Ph. I add wood ashes to help the buffering even more, but that isn't a necessity, just some minor nutrients and buffering to keep Ph in the correct zone (which it does on it's own for the most part). With my use of Promix, I only feed every two weeks on average, so I don't use a ton of nutrients to lower my Ph too much. Using a lot of nutrients will lower your Ph more than the occasional feeding. A lot depends on your method of growing.

So am I just out of luck growing with my well water? I have read others say their hard water didnt cause issues.

Let me state this is my first grow of any kind of plant period. And I knew nothing and just grabbed some basic organic potting soil and added 25% perlite for aeration. But these utopia haze did fine til bloom and then just started turning yellow. I tried Roots Organics Budda bloom. Nothing. I also used epsom salts and PH down recommended dose and then doubled the dose and soil still stuck between 7.5 and 8 on the two plants. And the indica I have is doing much better than these but seems completely stagnant since about 2-3 weeks after entering flowering.

 

[CTAZ13]

I grow in soil. I use about 300 gallons of water every time I water the plants. I couldn’t possibly amend that much water. What I do is build the soil and test the slurry ph of the soil made with my water. I amend the soil, not the water, until I am satisfied. Once the soil has been built to work with my water I don’t have to worry about it anymore.

I have really hard well water over 9. What do you recommend to amend soil with. Should I look at heavy peat moss and sulfur mixes?

I am totally new and first plant to try to grow period. Just been doing some reading so hope I dont sound like a total idiot! but having some crazy ph issues

 

[CTAZ13]

Ok. SO I have been very sparing with the nutrients for fear of over feeding since I have read over and over and over again that this is the biggest issue with noobs. So yesterday after weeks of frustration and no answers. I finally just bombarded them with the cheap alaskan and some chicken poop and some bone meal boiled which I have been scared to use cause of my high ph. And guess what today for the first time ever my soil is now at 6.3 and 6.7 on the two plants I am having the most trouble with.

So... question is this? did lack of ferts create the ph issue in my soil. I mean my water is rock hard well water, but i can grow just about anything in my aquarium with co2 so I figured I could make it work in soil. May still have to do a water test to further determine GH and KH and what is causing which. But seems that the lack of ferts was the issue in my soil and I had thought I had nutrient lockout due to PH but maybe lack of nutrient was reason that nothing was buffering? Anyone know the answers?

 

[NinoGrows420]

I'm not sure but I think since your in soil it buffers the ph or something like thata I think I read that somewhere but I'm not sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong there's a good chance someone will

 

[Beachwalker]

Who has an opinion on RealLemon (or RealLime) concentrate? Wondering if it might be a little more predictable/stable than fresh lemons? Plus I always have some in my fridge.

BTW, last season I was trying fully organic soil for the first time and decided not to lower the pH -- since my city's water report indicated acceptable alkalinity levels, even though the tap is about 9. When my healthy seedlings graduated from distilled water I watered them from my small pond (which also is about pH 9 -- maybe because of the natural rain here, and/or from the fact that I frequently top it off from the tap). Anyway, those seedlings crinkled up pretty severely overnight, but recovered after a flush and switch back to pH'd water. Do people agree this crinkling was a pretty sure sign that my high pH is unacceptable, regardless of the alkalinity report?

Aqua Man, thanks for explaining something a few pages back that I never knew about why organic growers might want to use citric acid instead of phosphoric: that phosphoric is harder on the micro-nutrients. Last season I used Botanicare's pH down (phosphoric) because I thought it would be more stable than lemon juice, but maybe it undermined some of my good work brewing compost teas, etc.

Preparing for this season, after reading this thread, I'm thinking of switching back to peat instead of coir for 1/3 of my soil -- plus 1/3 compost (homemade in hot pile), and 1/3 perlite. I always water from the pond, as it's a great holding pool for de-chlorination -- plus it has thriving plant/fish life and muck. But is it possible to overdo pond water? Last season I think I might have overfed occasionally, but that was likely from the compost teas (thinking they were weaker than they actually were). How often would you use compost teas in 7-gallon fabric pots? After two days of bubbling, my tea still has high pH, so I suppose I'll still need to add lemon juice or RealLemon (but I'll skip phosphoric this time around).

My tap water is 8.9 & I'm not going to grow happy plants with that pH

I'm not sure why you don't want to adjust your pH? If it was already said I missed it, but I am curious? btw I use citric acid as a natural way to adjust my pH down

 

[Aqua Man]

Depending on form of nutrients they can raise or lower your soil ph. So yes it's absolutely likely that the nutrients you added would have lowered the ph. But that may lead me to question how well your soil is built.

I'm a hydro grower so I will leave to the soil guys but ph is both soil and hydro can fluctuate a bit as nutrients are added and consumed.

 

[Aqua Man]

My tap water is 8.9 & I'm not going to grow happy plants with that pH

I'm not sure why you don't want to adjust your pH? If it was already said I missed it, but I am curious? btw I use citric acid as a natural way to adjust my pH down

I totally agree that ph is high but the soil will buffer it .. for how long and to what ph depends on what's in the soil.

 

[Beachwalker]

I totally agree that ph is high but the soil will buffer it .. for how long and to what ph depends on what's in the soil.

Not so much as you'd think, I had my soil in the low fives and even the high fours not too far into flower maybe two-and-a-half - 3 months along. I add Dolomite now but yeah ffof doesn't buffer as much as you'd think, and I suspect Growers who don't pH either make their own soil and do it very well or have tap water that's very accommodating or perhaps both, but that's just my opinion

Plus the way I look at it I tried to provide the smoothest environment I can for my plants and if setting the pH helps that then it's not really a big thing to do to make it a little easier for them

 

[Aqua Man]

Not so much as you'd think, I had my soil in the low fives and even the high fours not too far into flower maybe two-and-a-half - 3 months along. I add Dolomite now but yeah ffof doesn't buffer as much as you'd think, and I suspect Growers who don't pH either make their own soil and do it very well or have tap water that's very accommodating or perhaps both, but that's just my opinion

100% agree. Soil should either be built for your water or amendments made to keep the ph in line. When using grow containers you will likely see ph of the soil change throughout the grow and in future you do exactly as you stated amend it to fit you water and nutrients. Also nutrient buildup is a common cause of low soil ph

I feel it would be better to adjust the soil ph with amendments like you have done than to ph the source water as once that water hits the soil it starts changing the ph of the water you just added.

 

[CTAZ13]

Depending on form of nutrients they can raise or lower your soil ph. So yes it's absolutely likely that the nutrients you added would have lowered the ph. But that may lead me to question how well your soil is built.

I'm a hydro grower so I will leave to the soil guys but ph is both soil and hydro can fluctuate a bit as nutrients are added and consumed.

Not well at all! LOL I am completely new and totally ignorant. Which is why I came here was to learn. I just threw some seeds in some basic soil with some basic organic ferts. Didn't really know what kind of ratios to use or anything else. Been just trying to not over feed like everyone says newbies do! LOL Think I under fed. I have no clue what I am doing so just trying to do a little learning.

 

[Aqua Man]

Not well at all! LOL I am completely new and totally ignorant. Which is why I came here was to learn. I just threw some seeds in some basic soil with some basic organic ferts. Didn't really know what kind of ratios to use or anything else. Been just trying to not over feed like everyone says newbies do! LOL Think I under fed. I have no clue what I am doing so just trying to do a little learning.

@Beachwalker is a soil guy he can give you a good run down on soil builds and practices

 

[Beachwalker]

@Beachwalker is a soil guy he can give you a good run down on soil builds and practices

Thank you for the kind words but actually I'm a straight out the bag foxfarm guy, but I am building a soil right now as we speak, but I'm hardly qualified to give soil building advice, I just know how Fox farm acts & reacts cuz I've been using it for 4 years

 

[Aqua Man]

Not well at all! LOL I am completely new and totally ignorant. Which is why I came here was to learn. I just threw some seeds in some basic soil with some basic organic ferts. Didn't really know what kind of ratios to use or anything else. Been just trying to not over feed like everyone says newbies do! LOL Think I under fed. I have no clue what I am doing so just trying to do a little learning.

I would start a thread listing everything about your grow and asking all your questions. Since this one is about PH I think you will get alot more help by starting your own. Maybe call it "new soil grower looking for help" that should get the dirt guys in there to answer all your questions

 

[CTAZ13]

I would start a thread listing everything about your grow and asking all your questions. Since this one is about PH I think you will get alot more help by starting your own. Maybe call it "new soil grower looking for help" that should get the dirt guys in there to answer all your questions

I tried that and got pretty attacked! Turns out 6 of 6 plants from seed given me were males. I was told they were female and just in case look for long pointe thing at base of leaves and it was a female if it had a ball it was a male. Told to use magnifying glass. I was like hell I can see that easy. They were 3/16" by a few weeks, Every image I looked at on net looked the same Single. Was just informed females have two not one. Was also told that they can change due to stress so I dont know if I caused that or what. But you can see them starting to wither. And once they start to wither like that the whole flower looking part shifts to having bunch of round seed looking pods in it were it started as looking like just a bunch of super fine hair like leaves all grouped together. Either way I was given a specific book to read so got to go do some homework. I was just hoping to save the crop. I am mostly self taught in everything just cause I find society a bit to bitter and angry for my taste.

Thanks for taking your time kind sir!

 

[Aqua Man]

I tried that and got pretty attacked! Turns out 6 of 6 plants from seed given me were males. I was told they were female and just in case look for long pointe thing at base of leaves and it was a female if it had a ball it was a male. Told to use magnifying glass. I was like hell I can see that easy. They were 3/16" by a few weeks, Every image I looked at on net looked the same Single. Was just informed females have two not one. Was also told that they can change due to stress so I dont know if I caused that or what. But you can see them starting to wither. And once they start to wither like that the whole flower looking part shifts to having bunch of round seed looking pods in it were it started as looking like just a bunch of super fine hair like leaves all grouped together. Either way I was given a specific book to read so got to go do some homework. I was just hoping to save the crop. I am mostly self taught in everything just cause I find society a bit to bitter and angry for my taste.

Thanks for taking your time kind sir!

Sounds about right that's all accurate info you got. I don't know the history of your grow but I would just buy feminized seeds in the future. I got a soil mix from @Jimster that works great for my mother plants. Maybe he can help ya out with that. I'm a hydro grower but a common soil that seems to work well is promix. You soil will be the most important part of your grow.

I cannot tell the sex of that plant bit the circled portions are not indications of a female.

 

[CTAZ13]

I appreciate your time. yes I have red good things about pro mix. NO one has it around here at all. SO guess I will have to order online. Gonna take me some saving up I am a poor boy!

 

[Beachwalker]

I appreciate your time. yes I have red good things about pro mix. NO one has it around here at all. SO guess I will have to order online. Gonna take me some saving up I am a poor boy!

I bought a bale at Home Depot yesterday for $14.25, I'm not sure but I think most Home Depot's carry it?