Lst Schwazzing!

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Snakeskins

Snakeskins

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These are all CFL-grown from a bag of randomly assorted chron seeds and I'm wondering what type of plants they are ie. Sativa, hybrid, indica etc. Im closing in on the 6th and final week of vegetative growth for the three big plants. I want to defoliate just two of the plants before I start 12/12. I had already defoliated two days ago so I hope I don't overdue it. It's my first time trying LST or Scwazzing so please share your opinions.
PS. For anyone that thinks defoliating hurts yields, I'd like to see picture proof. :)
 
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Thejoeybrown

Thejoeybrown

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These are all CFL-grown from a bag of randomly assorted chron seeds and I'm wondering what type of plants they are ie. Sativa, hybrid, indica etc. Im closing in on the 6th and final week of vegetative growth for the three big plants. I want to defoliate just two of the plants before I start 12/12. I had already defoliated two days ago so I hope I don't overdue it. It's my first time trying LST or Scwazzing so please share your opinions.
PS. For anyone that thinks defoliating hurts yields, I'd like to see picture proof. :)
Give it a shot bud. I believe it will improve yield if done correctly.

I'm trying a heavy Defoliation technique this round as well. I'm doing a little different tho. I just flipped to 12/12. Letting them bush out. @ day 14 when budsites start to form I'm stripping them clean. Every single fan leaf only leaving bid sites. Removing everything on the bottom 1/3 of plants. Also From then on no more Defoliation (besides maybe a rogue fan here and there). The evidence I've seen speaks for itself and the person advising this I trust.
Just wanted to give ya the confidence to give it a shot. No way to know unless you do it!
Here is an example of roughly how they'll look day 14 after Defoliation. This isn't mynplant this is just an example. Looks scary but I'm a believer. Lol
 
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Thejoeybrown

Thejoeybrown

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Fan leaves are the solar panels of a plant or tree. Remove them and might as well go back to buying herb. Youll make out better buying a sack vs wasting 9 weeks on barely a qtr return.
To each his own. I have little experience but I disagree it will ruin your yield. I've seen many people get better yields when defoliating this way.
I follow your stuff demon and learn a lot from it brotha! I'm a believer in Defoliation tho. Lol
 
gravekat303

gravekat303

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To each his own. I have little experience but I disagree it will ruin your yield. I've seen many people get better yields when defoliating this way.
I follow your stuff demon and learn a lot from it brotha! I'm a believer in Defoliation tho. Lol
It can be done and works but you really need to force feed the plant a ton of sugar to make up for whats lost or its a complete bust
 
Thejoeybrown

Thejoeybrown

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It's your plant, do with what you think is best.
I hear ya brotha. And I could definitely be proven wrong. I just don't think it's fair to say you're better off buying because you'll harvest qtr. I know of many growers who use this technique religously. I have seen their yields increase.
People are basically torn 50/50 on the subject but I have yet to have somebody who has tried it tell me it hurt their yield.
I believe the added airflow and light to the bidsites will benefit not hinder.

Obviously plants need to be healthy with proper nutrition and conditions. Also different strains I would think react differently.

Again much respect brotha. Just conversating and sharing my personal thoughts.
 
Thejoeybrown

Thejoeybrown

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It can be done and works but you really need to force feed the plant a ton of sugar to make up for whats lost or its a complete bust
Ya that makes sense. Less leaves for photosynthesis means less glucose being created. I am running my nutrients full strength as of a flip and running mammoth p with it. Hopefully the mammoth p will help make available more nutrient uptake. What are we talkin when you say force feed a ton of sugar? I'm actually in the process of making sure my nutrients and nutrients, conditions and everything are all squared away before I strip them girls. Lol. I honk I'm dialed in but always good to run down the checklist

I run a drip dtw Coco 3 gal pots feeding once per day but will up to twice per day as they are drinking more and more.
 
Organikz

Organikz

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Listen to @DemonTrich here bro. That shit is psychosomatic. I have buds fully covered by my canopy but are still taking decent dominance and growing just as much bud.

Research "source and sink". Nutrients feed your chlorophyll. That's all they do. The nutrients are converted into sugar in the leaves during photosynthesis and.those sugars are sent to your buds.

There is no scientific evidence proving that sugar is uptakable in any form. It is produced inside the plant. The more leaves the more sugar can be produced.
 
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Organikz

Organikz

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Believe me bud, I've been on the tilt-o-whirl of opinionated gurus. I have gone to reading agricultural research papers. Very boring and not nearly as entertaining as these cool YouTube videos with "IMO" videos. It helps you understand true nature of the processes happening in your soil to what's happening in your fruit.

If you really want to know the answer to a question type the topic and "university". You will get science, not opinion.

Sidenote: enzymes in grain and barley and even corn are very effective in soil. I do malted barley flour with a fulvic feed. That gets the enzymes going. Coconut water is another great growth regulator.

This isn't a university research paper but I read it over and it's 100% accurate. I have read the boring 20 page papers.


Sources
The nutrient-rich regions that supply sugars for the rest of the plant are called the sources. Sources include the leaves, where sugar is generated through photosynthesis. When they are high in supplies, the nutrient storage areas, such as the roots and stems, can also function as sources. In the sources, sugar is moved into the phloem by active transport, in which the movement of substances across cell membranes requires energy expenditure on the part of the cell.

Sinks
Sinks are areas in need of nutrients, such as growing tissues. When they are low in supply, storage areas such as the roots and stems cane function as sinks. The contents of the phloem tubes flow from the sources to these sinks, where the sugar molecules are taken out of the phloem by active transport.
 
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H

heisen

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The only way i could see someone getting a better yield stripping a plant is if they was not really a great grower to begin with and just happened to luck up and get a better yield but plants eat light not nutrients.they gather light with there leaves.I think it is a balanced tradeoff of taking a few here and there to get light down there but once you go overboard the plant will suffer.
 
Snakeskins

Snakeskins

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Give it a shot bud. I believe it will improve yield if done correctly.

I'm trying a heavy Defoliation technique this round as well. I'm doing a little different tho. I just flipped to 12/12. Letting them bush out. @ day 14 when budsites start to form I'm stripping them clean. Every single fan leaf only leaving bid sites. Removing everything on the bottom 1/3 of plants. Also From then on no more Defoliation (besides maybe a rogue fan here and there). The evidence I've seen speaks for itself and the person advising this I trust.
Just wanted to give ya the confidence to give it a shot. No way to know unless you do it!
Here is an example of roughly how they'll look day 14 after Defoliation. This isn't mynplant this is just an example. Looks scary but I'm a believer. Lol
That is insane. Why so bare? Is that pre flower?
 
fatawa

fatawa

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It's your plant, do with what you think is best.
best advice on whole thread(imo).u gotta do the footwrk yurself bro.what works for me may not for u,on so on.i dnt take pics of catastrophes but u can strip it too much.if yur rocking cfl's my opinion is it will serve u well to defoilate(not heavy like that one pic above),as light penetration is the key.i run 1000w's and i only clean the bottom of mine out,leaving about foot n half of top of plant alone.but each is own and like demon said,its yur plant do as u want
 
Organikz

Organikz

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I actually want to take the time to congratulate @DemonTrich for photo of the month.

That being said look at the photo of the month. That's the guy who's advice was shot down. A grower that makes me feel like a high school kid dousing seedling with miracle.grow lol.

Edit...i consider him a cultivator
 
Thejoeybrown

Thejoeybrown

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That is insane. Why so bare? Is that pre flower?
That is at day 21 flower. Yes that is INSANE. I don't think I'll ever take every one like that. Hahaha. I said in the post it was and example of what people do. Aggressive Defoliation
I personally know of someone on this site who all (most I guess) you guys respect and he strips like this at day 14. (Don't want to throw him out there but it's all in my thread lol. That is where I decided to try out Defoliation. And not on all my plants. But The proof is in the pudding. And I've seen it work too many times to not try. I will probably leave a good amount that aren't in the way of anything but I will keep the concept. Might turn out to ruin my plants. But I doubt it. Lol
 
Thejoeybrown

Thejoeybrown

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I actually want to take the time to congratulate @DemonTrich for photo of the month.

That being said look at the photo of the month. That's the guy who's advice was shot down. A grower that makes me feel like a high school kid dousing seedling with miracle.grow lol.

Edit...i consider him a cultivator
Nobody shot anything down. I'm a noob. every time i replied to @DemonTrich i said that and how much I respected him. So if you think for yourself and decide to try something (that many many growers use) you are shooting down advice? How do you learn? I'm just trying to learn.

I've never seen proof that defoliating marijuana plants is detrimental to their flower quality or yield. Also never read it. Only peoples opinions.

I've read where grapes were studied and heavily defoliated and the grapes showed slightly lower glucose in the end product after Defoliation the whole time. But was still viable. And that's a grape. Not marijuana. A grape is almost all sugar you would think it is doing a lot more glucose producing.

I've read where other plants like cottons and some beans benefit greatly from it and it is standard practice in agriculture and the production of certain crops.

I've seen no proof that it is detrimental to marijuana
I've never seen a side by side where the defoliated plant was outdone by the bushy plant.

I won't knock it until I've tried it.

I still love your stuff and knowledge. And I love following your work and learning from you. I hope I don't sound like I think I know something. Lol I just beleive his technique works. I've seen great results too many times
 
Thejoeybrown

Thejoeybrown

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"In the current study we observed substantial compensation in defoliated plants growing at low density, despite losing 75% of leaf area prior to the onset of flowering. Plant responses associated with compensation included (1) increased reproductive efficiency, which may in turn may have resulted from increased canopy light penetration and transient increases in leaf-level photosynthetic rates; (2) greater allocation to reproduction (RA); (3) changes in biomass allocation from roots to shoots; (4) lower leaf longevity, and (5) increased percent fruit set. Although some of these responses were also observed in defoliated plants grown at high density, the inability of high-density plants to compensate appeared to result from competition for light; these plants delayed reproduction and continued to produce new leaves late in the growing season after low-density, defoliated plants had shifted allocation of resources to reproduction."

-- Oecologia July 1997, Volume 111, Issue 2, pp 225-232 Defoliation of the annual herb Abutilon theophrasti: mechanisms underlying reproductive compensation



"Floral development in emerging shoots of unrooted hardwood Chinese gooseberry (Actinidia chinensis Planch.) cuttings was enhanced by continuous defoliation, inhibited by total shading, and unaffected by tipping. Leaf production and growth, shoot elongation and thickening, and new bud development were similarly affected by such treatments. These effects were generally related to severity of treatment and length of time treatments were applied."

-- New Zealand Journal of Agricultural Research Volume 18, Issue 4, 1975. Effect of defoliation, shading, and tipping of shoots on flower bud development and vegetative growth of Chinese gooseberry (Actinidia chinensis Planch.).

"Three experiments were done in an open-sided glasshouse during the normal winter growing season. In experiment 1, swards of the Dwalganup strain which were severely defoliated, either after flower initiation or at early flowering, had 17% more flowers per unit ground area than uncut controls. Swards which were defoliated at both stages had 28% more flowers than the controls."

-- Australian Journal of Agricultural Research 23(3) 427 - 435. The effect of defoliation on flower production in subterranean clover (T. subterraneum L.).

"Swards of three strains of subterranean clover (Seaton Park, Yarloop, Midland B) were subjected to a range of defoliation treatments.
In all strains, cutting at weekly intervals at a height of 1.5–2 cm from 1 month after sowing until the onset of flowering led to a slight delay in flower initiation but the time of flowering was little affected. The rate of inflorescence production, however, was always increased, as was the total number of inflorescences produced by the end of flowering. In particular, seed yields were increased by at least 30% compared with uncut controls."

-- Australian Journal of Agricultural Research 29(4) 789 - 801. The effect of defoliation on inflorescence production, seed yield and hard-seededness in swards of subterranean clover.

"When the external nutrient supply was high, removal of the laminae of fully expanded leaves, which comprised about two-thirds of the total leaf area, did not reduce leaf expansion. When the nutrient status was low, these leaves were of primary importance, presumably because of their role as a source of labile nutrients."

-- Annals of Botany Volume 30 Issue 2 Pp. 173-184. Leaf Growth in Dactylis glomerate following Defoliation.

"Partial defoliation always induced rejuvenation in photosynthetic rate of remaining leaves. Young and middle-aged leaves rejuvenated to rates comparable to those of recently expanded leaves but old leaves only partially rejuvenated. Time after defoliation to attain peak rates increased as leaves aged; values were 5, 9 and 12 days for plants partially defoliated on days 16, 30 and 65 of regrowth respectively. Peak rates were maintained for only 3 or 4 days before declining. Rates of photorespiration and photosynthesis were closely coupled. Transpiration rates varied over time in a similar but more erratic pattern to net photosynthetic rates.
Changes in net photosynthetic rates associated with senescence, defoliation treatments and irradiance levels were largely attributable to changes in intracellular resistance to CO2 transfer. Intracellular resistances ranged from 2.6 to 30 s cm-1, constituting 67-95 % of the total resistance to photosynthesis. Stomatal resistance to CO2 diffusion remained low, 0.2 - 1.0 s cm-1, for all but very old leaves.
Partial defoliation followed by continual removal of new crown and stubble shoots induced very high net photosynthetic rates, c. 15 days later. Highest net photosynthetic rate was 238 ng CO2 cm-2 s-1."

-- Australian Journal of Plant Physiology 1(4) 561 - 578. Influence of Partial Defoliation on Photosynthesis, Photorespiration and Transpiration by Lucerne Leaves of Different Ages.


So it seems to be important which leaves you remove, if you do it correctly you can expect more "above the earth" growth afterwards. Interestingly older Leaves may be able to rejuvenate and take the role of the removed leaves. Nevertheless defoliation seems to slow down the root growth, because assimilates are reallocated to the new growth and not longer to the roots. This retardation lasts for the recovery time, until the plant has re established a new balance. Those are some basic things which will be mostly important in the vegetative state. Additionally it seems to be important how much nutrients are available for the plant to work with. If soil nutrient levels are low, defoliation hits the plant more.


Just some stuff I found. Like I said there isn't much info that is focused on marijuana plants but it is a technique.

A very well developed root structure and a very healthy mature plant seems to be key.
 
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