I have 2 almost identical White Widow. I will try to do a side by side and see how it goes. Maybe in about 12 weeks I'm saying you guys were 100% right and you guys are saying "I told you so!" Hahah.

Again I want to emphasize I hope my tone does not come across as someone who thinks he knows better at all. I listen to everything oh guys say and try to learn as much from it. I've just been reading about this technique a while now and I've seen a good amount in person with my own eyes and I have to give it a shot. If I fail, I still win because I'm learning. I wouldn't try something like this for the first time on a whole crop and I would never try to tell someone that I KNOW it works. Because I don't. I just know what I've seen and read and I'm gonna give a shot.

Thejoeybrown said:

I have 2 almost identical White Widow. I will try to do a side by side and see how it goes.

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this is how a true grower learns.good luck brother

Snakeskins said:

Ok where's the proof? Show me pictures of impressive looking buds on non-defoliated plants. It seems that every pic I'm sent are of well-pruned plants about to go into flip.

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Im not saying its 100% beneficial some plants hate it but og strains tend to yeild more if dine at the right time and fed properly and if the environment is right. Check out my boy tommy from black dog leds they are smashing it with this technique. Or even the jungle boys do a heavy defol

Yessir I understand the research but you have to understand what happening. The plant is so stressed it sends dominance hormones everywhere in attempts to regenerate. Once it regenerates it will return dominance to it's most suitable Flowers. There is still only x amount of nutrients that can flow up and down the transport system so at the beginning you see a difference but it gasses out just to produce a decent enough flower to pollinate. Ive grown.single colas and yielded the same and sometimes better because it was a super skunk...heavy yielder.

No defoliation or training whatsoever.

fatawa said:

this is how a true grower learns.good luck brother

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Thanks brotha! Ya it's the only way to know something for yourself. Especially on a subject like this where literally half the people SWEAR by it and half of people think it will absolutely ruin your crop. In my experience nothing in life is that black and white

gravekat303 said:

Im not saying its 100% beneficial some plants hate it but og strains tend to yeild more if dine at the right time and fed properly and if the environment is right. Check out my boy tommy from black dog leds they are smashing it with this technique. Or even the jungle boys do a heavy defol

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Right on brotha I'm definitely gonna check it out right away.
Yes I agree 100% first and foremost the conditions and nutrition have to be dialed in. I think that's one of the first thing I mentioned was I wouldn't even think about trying if it wasn't. Yes and also I believe it's strain/pheno dependant and some plants will not benefit from it.

When I train for budsites I leaf strip. Your plant goes crazy. Half the colas show deficiency while others take off.

Organikz said:

Yessir I understand the research but you have to understand what happening. The plant is so stressed it sends dominance hormones everywhere in attempts to regenerate. Once it regenerates it will return dominance to it's most suitable Flowers. There is still only x amount of nutrients that can flow up and down the transport system so at the beginning you see a difference but it gasses out just to produce a decent enough flower to pollinate. Ive grown.single colas and yielded the same and sometimes better because it was a super skunk...heavy yielder.

No defoliation or training whatsoever.

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Organikz said:

When I train for budsites I leaf strip. Your plant goes crazy. Half the colas show deficiency while others take off.

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I hear ya and that makes sense throwing the dominance hormones everywhere. Couldn't that account for the "blow up" over the first couple days after defoliating? Making more secondary and lower budsites more established and when the plant regains normalcy in just a couple days those established bud sites are recieving nutrition as well as benefiting from the added light and airflow? Not saying they will continue dominance but benefit slightly?

I in no way think this is magic that will make huge buds. Indoor growing is already very unnatural and we try to get small advantages by manipulating nature?

Thejoeybrown said:

@Wisher619

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in the end they're your plants. do as you wish. but as i said the key here is source and sink. research that and draw your own conclusion.

I'm a gas fitter by trade. If we want to increase the amount of gas load we have to upsize the existing pipe or run a dedicated home run to the meter. Sometimes the pipe from the street has to be upsized.

Understand your phloem can only carry so much load just like this gas pipe. try sucking through coffee straw compared to a regular straw.

A better example would be water supply in high rise buildings. The water is pumped up to storage tanks every 4 floors or so or a booster pump has to be installed.

Same in electricity. You have to install a larger circuit if you want to draw more amps. How can you do this in a plant?

We actually call the main pipe that carries the load the trunk line lol. if you install too many branches that require too many BTUs you would need a bigger trunk line. if you don't it will starve some of the appliances of gas or they will all get an equal low pressure. Think of it like that.

@Organikz
what you are describing is correct
the very reason why it is said the root mass=but production
the larger the roots the larger the trunk the more buds you produce

I have disproven that along time ago
so have many others
look up
beds are made for fuckin
I believe it is stickied in the coco section

I run 5"x5" pots and produce between 80-120g per plant
if I had a larger pot and vegged way longer I would probably produce more per plant provided I had enough light source

I also defoliate at day 14
I will post a pic of day 49 which was last night
see what you think

these plants were stripped bare and they now look like they have never been touched

oh and never mind that giant cola on the right
that is my Landrace Mexi *genetics* she will probably end up being about 200 g or more

Organikz said:

I actually want to take the time to congratulate @DemonTrich for photo of the month.

That being said look at the photo of the month. That's the guy who's advice was shot down. A grower that makes me feel like a high school kid dousing seedling with miracle.grow lol.

Edit...i consider him a cultivator

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Oh slow down on going there! Demon is a great grower yes, but a potm picture isnt shit nor is winning an online pic contest. I won grower of the month! Really! Get the truck out of here with that bs!
Hell a new grower got top 3, with a bum ass pic.. This is a retarded ass conversation because of a lot of innuendos for personal gain. There aint one mutherfreaker here with a degree!

To defol or not to defol, who gives a fuck? None of us have the same setup, lights, environment. As for the opinions of more than just this thread, Some of them commenting use hid lights, some use c02, and some cant even spell c02..

I see members that just made it thru there first grow commenting...Oh great you made it to harvest with a plant in ffof feeding water and tea! Well son of a beach you ought to join nasa, and end the food shortage problem... I can take demon and put him in an RDWC system, and I guarantee he is gonna stub his toe! So anybody here that thinks there smarter, or better, is bullshit.. And what are we talking? Another 100 grams? 200? Most of them commenters are prob losing more than that in their showty setup... So many diff things go into this...

And just for the record i stripped all the fans off, and with in a week it was so full I had to do it again!
What was my thoughts on it? A lot more investigation into WHY IT WORKS FOR SOME AND NOT FOR OTHERS, BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS
IT DOES WORK FOR SOME, AND NOT SO WELL FOR OTHERS..
So a real seeker of knowledge would not hurl insults at someone for experimenting, instead he would lay out the ways to help pull that info from the experiments..

Oh and I got 20000 likes for my posts, so I must be super Paw Paw Zan the growing machine...
Ya sure Bo.....

cmon brothers, Are we brothers together in the struggle, or are we all just a bunch of self righteous assholes who are trying to outshow one another...
If someone wants to defol, urge them on, and help them make good decisions when!

See that is what this thread should be about.
When, and why, and your opinion on that!
Just taking demons word for it, wtf is he, Ed Rosenthal?
Just another grower... that doesnt even have the experience of rdwc to even quote on, so how can somebody who hasnt used all effective growing parameters be able to honestly comment about the effects of defol in DWC, where growth and new fan growth is exponentially higher!

Dont take that to hard deamon, I needed someone to use as an example and since he thew you out there, i used you as the example.. My point isnt that you dont know what your doing, my point is that ppl instead of doing their own research, instead just take someones word for it... and then repost it when someone else is asking for previous advice to do their own experiment, and make their own decision!
AND YOU KNOW I JUST GAVE YOU PROPS ON YOUR POTM WINNER IN WHICH I VOTED FOR YOU :)

I see a lot of times on here when someone shoots down somebody else for experimenting...
Here is ther truth for all of us..
Aint none of us special!
This isnt some great thing to accomplish.
Its pretty simple to be honest and all the bs repeated in these forums is what makes it hard...

Rant over...
You can continue with your ORIGINALLY SCHEDULED PROGRAMMING :)

Here is the truth of defol :)

EventHorizan said:

Here is the truth of defol :)

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Zan I love you man. Hahha. I don't think it got too crazy in here tho. I do appreciate @Organikz sharing his knowledge and I do genuinely take it in and try to learn. The smartest man is the one who learns fromEVERYONE.

I always make my own decisions based on what I think is best with the information gathered. I was just encouraging the OP do give it a shot. You don't know anything until you try it. Hopefully he gained some information from this conversation

I will be trying and I look forward to you guys seeing my results and giving me your opinion. Jump on my thread and let me know what you think, what I can do better, anything.

.

Thejoeybrown said:

Zan I love you man. Hahha. I don't think it got too crazy in here tho. I do appreciate @Organikz sharing his knowledge and I do genuinely take it in and try to learn. The smartest man is the one who learns fromEVERYONE.

I always make my own decisions based on what I think is best with the information gathered. I was just encouraging the OP do give it a shot. You don't know anything until you try it. Hopefully he gained some information from this conversation

I will be trying and I look forward to you guys seeing my results and giving me your opinion. Jump on my thread and let me know what you think, what I can do better, anything.

.

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lol Awe shucks jimmy,, u didnt have to say them nice things,,,,

Well I did come here looking for an argument...
Pissed off cause i got a chicken sandwich with no lettuce....
Said they ran out of lettuce..
I asked them,,
Did you freaking defol??????

:)

Thejoeybrown said:

Zan I love you man. Hahha. I don't think it got too crazy in here tho. I do appreciate @Organikz sharing his knowledge and I do genuinely take it in and try to learn. The smartest man is the one who learns fromEVERYONE.

I always make my own decisions based on what I think is best with the information gathered. I was just encouraging the OP do give it a shot. You don't know anything until you try it. Hopefully he gained some information from this conversation

I will be trying and I look forward to you guys seeing my results and giving me your opinion. Jump on my thread and let me know what you think, what I can do better, anything.

.

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lol no it wasnt bad, till I showed up!
Now shots are fired...
I even heard antifa will be here soon :)

I figured I could pull everyone together, by saying im not shit, and nobody is better than someone else..
Truth be known, we all won if your smoking your own!

I will add this too, so that i input something constructive to the conversation...
We cant compare results from one grower to another unless exact conditions are met!
With that said, WHEN you defol is more impotant most likely than weather you do.
And are you following vpd? Why?
Well if rh is higher then air flow is critical for mold prevention as well as air/c02 flow to the underneath of the leaves.
So different arrangements prob bring different results...
I know there is some big time growers that defol.
And exactly what are we trying for in defol, more yield?
See to me how many weeks of veg you have to waste is 10x more important,
since i can gain another flowering run in a year(12k) which to me is more important.
I guess i look at in different..
I dont ask how much this run will get me... At least not totally..
I also when designing my setup, asked myself how many runs can i get in in a year... And transition between them..

And we know defoling certain fans will have a direct effect on that node, including in stretch.. So maybe when you call it defol like your only reason is for light to the new bud sites, would be solely missing all the reasons ppl incorporate these techniques.....

EventHorizan said:

lol Awe shucks jimmy,, u didnt have to say them nice things,,,,

Well I did come here looking for an argument...
Pissed off cause i got a chicken sandwich with no lettuce....
Said they ran out of lettuce..
I asked them,,
Did you freaking defol??????

:)

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Hahahaha

EventHorizan said:

I will add this too, so that i input something constructive to the conversation...
We cant compare results from one grower to another unless exact conditions are met!
With that said, WHEN you defol is more impotant most likely than weather you do.
And are you following vpd? Why?
Well if rh is higher then air flow is critical for mold prevention as well as air/c02 flow to the underneath of the leaves.
So different arrangements prob bring different results...
I know there is some big time growers that defol.
And exactly what are we trying for in defol, more yield?
See to me how many weeks of veg you have to waste is 10x more important,
since i can gain another flowering run in a year(12k) which to me is more important.
I guess i look at in different..
I dont ask how much this run will get me... At least not totally..
I also when designing my setup, asked myself how many runs can i get in in a year... And transition between them..

And we know defoling certain fans will have a direct effect on that node, including in stretch.. So maybe when you call it defol like your only reason is for light to the new bud sites, would be solely missing all the reasons ppl incorporate these techniques.....

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That is the main thing. What works for one might not work for another. It's all about what benefits you.
And like I said before this is about gaining small advantages. I don't think a plant that harvested 1/2 lb could have harvested 3/4 if defoliated. Not at all. But any small advantages YOU can gain and imply to YOUR Grow is the idea. It's the small details. It could prove to be worthless or even detrimental TO ME. or it could prove to add a small amount to MY bud production. And if it does I want it to be shared with others so they can decide if it's something that would help THEM.
My feeling is that in my situation it will help. with 1 1k light I don't want to go outside a 4x4 area. It will allow more budsites to thrive and receive more light and much more airflow.

I'm jumping over to your thread to bug you now. I don't want to annoy anyone on here. I enjoy discussing this stuff I hope nobody got annoyed. Lol

Thejoeybrown said:

Hahahaha


That is the main thing. What works for one might not work for another. It's all about what benefits you.
And like I said before this is about gaining small advantages. I don't think a plant that harvested 1/2 lb could have harvested 3/4 if defoliated. Not at all. But any small advantages YOU can gain and imply to YOUR Grow is the idea. It's the small details. It could prove to be worthless or even detrimental TO ME. or it could prove to add a small amount to MY bud production. And if it does I want it to be shared with others so they can decide if it's something that would help THEM.
My feeling is that in my situation it will help. with 1 1k light I don't want to go outside a 4x4 area. It will allow more budsites to thrive and receive more light and much more airflow.

I'm jumping over to your thread to bug you now. I don't want to annoy anyone on here. I enjoy discussing this stuff I hope nobody got annoyed. Lol

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lol whos thread is this ???
hahahaha..

Hey Im Paw Paw Zan:fire: :smoking::drunk::cool: