Mad Mold Problems - black spot? Rust?

[sedate]

After some bad mold penetration into my flower room at the end of the last cycle - shut-the-fuck-down with two Whitemire-Gen Fungaflor TR bombs - the next generation isn't doing too well either.

- I can't get this shit to stop - the next generation has fucking lost like 1/2 the leaves - new growth consistantly gets infected ..

I've been getting really aggressive with this - every 48 a rotating application of 1) Serenade Fungicide (baterial fungicide), then 2) Safer Brand Fungicide (sulfur-based concentrate) and 3) Ed Rosenthal's Herbal Fungicide at a 50/50 dilution rate (a bunch of oils - clove, garlic, olive, etc.)

I can't set a fogger off for these at this time.

Plants are 500 - 600ppm's Botanicare cal-mag/pro-grow, hormex, gh's kangaroots - so the root zone looks nice on all the plants and everything's pearly white down there and rooting along nicely. Lamped with 600w MH and some supplementary t12's - each bucket is getting 7ltr's/minute air.

If you look at the pic of all the plants, you can see this shit creeping on the edges all over the place.

Anyway - this is mold right? - some sort of crazy mosiac virus? WTF is going on?

 

[BoCo Buds]

Maybe my screen isn't that good... but the first pic looks to be a white residue that has dried on the leaf surface... not fuzzy white PM.

I'd say you're cooking the leaves with the constant spraying. U raising the lights/flippin off while doing this?


AND, if you want to kill off anything systemic... use a real product... one that really kills on contact & then gets into the plant & keeps on killing. Just not in flowering.

but I didn't see mold...???

 

[sedate]

Maybe my screen isn't that good... but the first pic looks to be a white residue that has dried on the leaf surface... not fuzzy white PM

Yea. That's Safer Fungicide residue.

It seems to be the most effective of the three fungicides I've been using.

U raising the lights/flippin off while doing this?

Yes. Lights off for 6 hours everytime I hit them with a foliar.

The lamp is about 20" off the canopy.

The only foliar that seemed to upset the foliage was the Serenade - so I've been using that at 50% low-bottle-dose.

AND, if you want to kill off anything systemic... use a real product... one that really kills on contact & then gets into the plant & keeps on killing.

Which would be what product that isn't a bomb?

 

[true grit]

Yeah to me looks like something viral/systemic not mold like. Could be wrong, but looks sick or fried from something to me...

so the fungaflor went alright i take it? no more pm?

 

[sedate]

Could be wrong, but looks sick or fried from something to me

Right. I mean that's what they look like to me.

But the pattern of burn certainly isn't fert-burn - and at 600ish ppms - so I can't quite figger this out.

so the fungaflor went alright i take it? no more pm?

Oh yea.

Just like we had discussed - I dropped two bombs 7 days apart - and the mold issues fucking ended right there in the flower room.

But within a week or so - what appereared to be rust developed on the 9 plants you see above - and even under treatment from Safter Fungicide concentrate - the plants progressed to the apperance you see above.

I swear it looked alot like black spot and rust for awhile, but these latest patterns of mottling look like some sort of funky burn . . . .

This video is alot like what it looked like a week or so ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPJCPeqITkI

. . .And now these funky mosiac burns. .

Like the guy in the video says - I got nothing . . .

 

[cemchris]

Had this happened in the past just not as bad. Been getting worse over the last 3 to 4 months?

 

[sedate]

Had this happened in the past just not as bad. Been getting worse over the last 3 to 4 months?

Um. I guess I would say yes - at least what appeared to be rust has been around in a real minor way for awhile - especially toward the end of flowering.

But the plants vegging in the pic above aren't in the flower room, and aren't even on the same floor of the house.

But right when I bombed the flower-room, this shit started on these plants.

I started foliar fungicide right away, but, like I said, the problems seem to be morphing along nicely.

Not so much rust at this point, but black-spot and this funky mottling - it seems to take one leaf at a time - mostly toward the bottom of the plant but not always.

At least one of these problems can be found on the edges of the plants almost everywhere.

The only thing that makes me hope its an eridicatable fungus is that one particular plant has been nearly problem free since starting the aggressive fungicide regimine - but - like I said - "nearly" and with being as aggressive as I've been with the stuff I'm starting to wonder if this is mold at all.

 

[Seamaiden]

Outside of powdery mildew, I usually treat fungal infections with a cupric solution. Turns everything blue, but it works. Try Kop-R-Safe (you may have to treat aggressively and go with the higher dosing rates).

Black spot (Septoria) infections begin from the bottom of the plant and work up, and it absolutely will defoliate the plant. Vectored by splashing water on the ground (soil surface) and I feel it can also be vectored if the plants physically touch each other. Once eradicated, with good QT it need never reappear.

 

[sedate]

Vectored by splashing water on the ground (soil surface) and I feel it can also be vectored if the plants physically touch each other. Once eradicated, with good QT it need never reappear.

Huh? What do you mean QT? Splashing water about increases the chances of causing black-spot?

Does that look like black-spot to you Seamaiden?

 

[Seamaiden]

Huh? What do you mean QT? Splashing water about increases the chances of causing black-spot?

Does that look like black-spot to you Seamaiden?

I apologize, I slipped into abbreviated speech. QT = quarantine. The life cycle of the Septoria spp of fungi (there are MANY species of Septoria that cause what's commonly called black spot) includes time on the ground, and it is spread by water splashing (vectored). The leaves you pictured do not resemble the black spot *I* experienced, however, as I mentioned, there are many species. Did I mention that they defoliate from the bottom up? Yellowing occurs after you see the spotting, and that's what makes the progression of what you describe a little problematic in terms of Dxing positively as black spot.

That said, the shotgun approach may be all you have left here, and to me, especially if we're talking about good genetics, it would make sense to shoot 'em with the Kop-R-Safe, as cupric solutions tend to kill lots of nasty things. And invertebrates, really kills inverts in a big way, so don't let it get into a watershed.

***********************************************
Looking more closely at the photos, I see nothing that really resembles black spot. I want to see what the undersides of the leaves look like. Looking at the last photo those girls are not happy, a bit of a pH problem (the twisting/crinkling crap, I hate on that shit). Reddish-purple stems and necrotic leaf TIPS hint at a phosphorous problem--whether it's a toxicity or a deficiency I couldn't tell. But the rest of the picture otherwise would read as fried plants to me.

How do the roots look? Absolutely no bugs, right?

 

[true grit]

Is there anyway this room got any of the Fungaflor in it? Did this room recieve one too? Because burn from teh Fungaflor looks similar if i remember correctly. I can't remember but Fungaflor may be one of those systemics thats not to be used in conjuction with an oil based topical treatment....this can sometimes lead to burn... I honestly can't remember, but i did stop spraying stylet oil well before setting off the bomb and didn't use it after for that reason...

 

[sedate]

How do the roots look? Absolutely no bugs, right?

Pearly. Branching along - but still stringy for this long into veg - my exp so far makes me think the larger plants should be balling up under the lid - but they aren't yet - roots really are matching the growth rate of the top half here.

No bugs. No way.

Solution has GH's KangaRoots and Hormex at like 2/ml/gallon each - in the past this has proven a really effective rooting combo.

Yellowing occurs after you see the spotting, and that's what makes the progression of what you describe a little problematic in terms of Dxing positively as black spot.

That's consistant with *some* of the leaves/symptoms - but others appear rusted or burned.

 

[sedate]

Is there anyway this room got any of the Fungaflor in it? Did this room recieve one too?

No and no.

It's possible mold spores got from the flower room to these - but as far as the Fungaflor goes - the room was sealed for that and exhausted with a CAN carbon filter for 90 minutes before it was exposed to the rest of the house.

The plant directly under the bomb did (should I say, is doing) better than these are on a different floor and like 5 rooms away - it's looking to be a good 8 oz'er - it's at week 6/bloom with minor, minor burn from the bomb.

Here are a few more pics from a few days ago. White dry-droplet looking things is residue from the Safer Fungicide spray. It takes weeks to go away.

IMHO, everything here is looking a bit worse, not better:

 

[BoCo Buds]

Which would be what product that isn't a bomb?

Well, they still are chemical bombs, just not in a total release fogger... off the top... Heritage & Eagle 20 for the chem fungicides... with Subdue for a soil/medium/rez drench. Each are either systemic or mildly so... and cancer causing. You could throw some chlorothalonil in there too.

But if used safely & responsibly & properly, with good room control afterwards, should kill off anything in there once & for all.

You can get most of all of these items otc... just use a chem respirator & try not to straight shots to the skin.



And, I'd just back off of em a little... no spraying, pH balanced, not overfed, nice & easy...

 

[DOGBUDS]

Outside of powdery mildew, I usually treat fungal infections with a cupric solution. Turns everything blue, but it works. Try Kop-R-Safe (you may have to treat aggressively and go with the higher dosing rates).

Black spot (Septoria) infections begin from the bottom of the plant and work up, and it absolutely will defoliate the plant. Vectored by splashing water on the ground (soil surface) and I feel it can also be vectored if the plants physically touch each other. Once eradicated, with good QT it need never reappear.

Hi Sea,
I need help please.. I have this rust fungus, for sure! Commonly mistaken for a Cal or Mag Def... Since this post have you came up with alternative treatment or still using the blue stuff? I'm 5 weeks into flower ProMix HP.. Thank you DB

 

[Seamaiden]

I haven't had it ever again, but honestly, I'd still go for the cupric solutions. IIRC they're allowable for organic cultivation.

 

[DOGBUDS]

Okie dokie Sea, thank you very much for your time... You are greatly appreciated!

 

[Discretepete]

I too have this in my garden for the first time. Not quite sure why or how but I was told large fluctuations of 10 degrees or more(F) can cause this and I was told indeed this is a form of black mold. I was given some Axoim harpin proteins by RX green solutions to give a try. I was told to cut away everything affected and already this stuff over just the tops of the plant. Not the underside of the leaves and stuff. Not a soaking either I was told. Normal lights out foliar feeding rules apply etc. But I just got done cutting my leaves away and cleaning up my girls. Will b spraying here shortly. I run autos right now and do a 24/0 schedule so I'll have to kill lights and immediately spray. This stuff is a one time use thing. Only good for 2 his after mixing. After that time discard. One packet mixed to 32oz distilled or RO water And misted on. I'll keep you guys posted on how it worked and if I see other new plants being affected. I have them at all stages in there lol

 

[Discretepete]

Let me start by one time use I mean you u can't save the mixture until next use. This is recommended to b used and done to your plants every other week I was told. Good for all stages of growth and will not affect flowers

 

[Seamaiden]

I too have this in my garden for the first time. Not quite sure why or how but I was told large fluctuations of 10 degrees or more(F) can cause this and I was told indeed this is a form of black mold. I was given some Axoim harpin proteins by RX green solutions to give a try. I was told to cut away everything affected and already this stuff over just the tops of the plant. Not the underside of the leaves and stuff. Not a soaking either I was told. Normal lights out foliar feeding rules apply etc. But I just got done cutting my leaves away and cleaning up my girls. Will b spraying here shortly. I run autos right now and do a 24/0 schedule so I'll have to kill lights and immediately spray. This stuff is a one time use thing. Only good for 2 his after mixing. After that time discard. One packet mixed to 32oz distilled or RO water And misted on. I'll keep you guys posted on how it worked and if I see other new plants being affected. I have them at all stages in there lolView attachment 590557 View attachment 590558 View attachment 590559

Honey, you've got deficiencies goin' on there. At first I was thinking P or Ca, but it's not really like Ca-, and it's not a terribly uneven blotchiness/necrosis like P, so I'm going to land on K-/+. What media are you growing in?

In any event, that's not black mold, it certainly isn't black spot (aka Septoria) and I don't believe the harpin proteins are going to do anything to fix what you've got goin' on there.