Magnesium Defeciency in SFV OG

[KersD]

So I got some "SFV OG" clones from a clinic down the street from my house and they looked real bad when i got em.. Severely Magnesium deficient among other nutes, completely purple stems and the slightly older one (about 5-6 nodes) was further along with all new growth frying tips and around edges curling up.. they were the bottom of the barrel and had been living in coco in a 6oz CLEAR plastic cup for who knows how long, but almost a week in the store in a tub with a bunch of other clones that I'm pretty sure they just dumped a bunch of tap water over em everynight before they turned the lights off and went home.. here's some pics the first night about an hour after bringing em home. Below is the younger one, i call her Babygirl cuz Im gonna flower her.

Below is the slightly older one, I call her Mum cuz i wanna keep her as a bonsai mum of sorts.

Below is a close up of Mum's lower node, still first night.. sorry about the focus:(

So I waited till these shitty little clear cups dried enough and transplanted into coco in dark colored solo cups. Supercharged the coco with Ca/mg 250ppm, a pinch of Mg/Su4 (should have been more) 270ppm, .5ml/gal G.H. FloraBlend, and a drop of SuperThrive. Total about 290ppm and pH 5.9.. I also watered them in with basicly the same solution but i added some "Hormex" trying to help the roots, and some "Great White" beneficial bacteria. After that it started getting better, then after a bit i figured they needed a bit more food. I had a free sample of some veganic tea mix with microbials in it so i thru in a bit of that with the previous mix and added a few ml's of G.H. Micro and ph'd it to 6.0.. BUT soon after a watering or 2 the purple started coming back hard and they didnt seem to like it much. (TRYING to make this short. lol) They were taking about 72 hours on the dot to be almost completely dry then I read from "Swerve" on a thread on this site!(I think..) Anyway he said they're total Mag Whores and he uses like 15ml/gal Ca/Mg, and 30ml/gal of Micro right after they root at like 800ppm and he's up to 1000ppm within a week!! I mixed up a new half gal batch of nutes.. 2.5ml ca/mg=350ppm, 1/8tsp Mg/Su4=150ppm, then the 1-1-1 ratio of G.H. Flora series 1.2ml of each and 1 or 2 drops of superthrive. Total=810ppm pH 5.9
They drank that shit soo fast all of a sudden they were both almost dry in 48 hours! Mum was dry! Babygirl had a lil moisture left, but I wanted to keep em on the same scedule so I fed her too. Heres some more pics, but these were taken BEFORE that first REAL feeding that I was just talking about.. I tied down Mum and pinched the top of babygirl awhile back, these pics are @ day 10. (Day 1 being the day after i bought them) Below Babygirl a few days after pinching out her top. @ the bottom of the pic you see the oldest fan and the damage done from deficiency.

Below is Mum @ day 10, once again you can see the damage done in the old fan leaves and it was severely stunted and lost almost 1 whole leaf and half another one, but you see shes looking better and how I tied her down.

Here's a top shot of Mum, day 10, some of the inner small leaves still have Magnesium Foliar spray on them as you can see. I've been doing one foliar of straight 400ppm Mg/Su4 a day since the first night and still soo much purple stem!!

Those pics were all from day 10, they started looking worse again after this a bit and I fed them their first High dose of nutes on day 14, and like I said they sucked that shit down like they had been waiting for it! After 48 hours I didnt really wanna feed them again so I did a little different mix. I only mixed a 1/4 gal. for in between feedings. Ca/Mg=370ppm, Mg/Su4=118ppm, 2ml FloraBlend=65ppm, a drop of Superthrive, and 0.6ml of "Silica Blast" for a ph up and cuz I started to LST and Supercrop and I want the stems to be nice and flexible.. Anyways Total 575ppm and pH 5.8. That was day 16. Another 48 hours went by and Mum was dry again, i dont just go by the top layer either if thats what you think I do go by weight. Once again Babygirl wasn't completely dry but she definetely had sucked up some water so I went ahead and fed them again with the same feeding mix of 810ppm.. well I know they wanted it and it helped but I should have waited another day before watering babygirl cuz she got just a bit over-watered as you will see in these next photos. But still sooo much purple in the stems!! Mum's leaves all look good but Babygirls older fans are getting an interesting discoloration, Im guessing its the Mag. deficiency showing but why just hers and not the other?? Mum is a bit older and seems to be getting rid of the deficiency a bit better, but does anyone have any clues to this? I've included a close up of what im talking about. Below is "Babygirl" Day 18, with an obvious over-watering but that cleared up real quick.

Below "Mum" Day 18 as well after the same exact waterings and as you can see she's happy with it! I'm going to top her back to 4 or 5 nodes and clone the cut, but I've read from multiple sources that this strain is extremely hard to clone. I've never cloned before so I need practice..

Here's a higher angle Close-up of Mum.. Notice she doesn't have the yellowing in her mature fans Like Babygirl?

Below is a Top shot of "Babygirl" you can see the yellowing I'm talking about in the lower mature Fans.

Below is a Close-up of the Discoloring and below it you can see one of the oldest leaves which I completely understand why they look that way its just the younger Mature ones I'm trippin on. You can also see the over-watering in the younger leaves to the left of the pic. Any Opinions??

So any Input would be GREATLY appreciated.. I'm thinking I gotta feed em at least 400ppm of Ca/Mg, along with another 200ppm of straight Mag. sulfate (Epsom) then just do around 400ppms of the trio @ 1-1-1, and keep doing the foliar feedings. At least until these fucking stems turn green again?? Maybe Swerve will show up and tell me if this is even a "real SFV OG cut" since there was so much debate over that. It looks like it to me from comparing to pics of the "Real Cuts" Plus the fact that they're such Mag. whores like swerve originally said about them.

 

[KersD]

WTF?!?!?!?! Why didnt my fucking Pictures show up???? I went thru all that shit creating a photobucket and shit and made this long ass thread with PLENTY of pics and now all of a sudden I post it and they show up as fucking URL's?? How do you make that work???

 

[KersD]

Ok I fixed it, turns out I didnt need to make a fuckin photobucket after all.. Thank god I was able to fix it...

 

[UNITEDGROOVES]

they don't look that bad.. The older once i'd hit them with a total of about 700-800ppm. 5ml per gal of cal mag should be enough 10ml per gal max if they really are asking for it and you're in RO water... It sounds like you're on top of it, but just keep feeding them with at least 20% runoff until they green up and loose the purple stems... Also don't let the coco dry out too much.. once they are established in their new home don't let the coco dry out at all...

peace

 

[PaperStreet]

I can tell u that yes indeed my sfv and all the hybrids ive made with sfv ogk do like to eat and like a healthy schedule of calmag in there feed regimen. I hit them a couple few time in veg thru early stages from transition to flower they should and will love it by pepaying u with dense frosty nugglets i wouldnt be afraid at all getting a good regimen with the calmag in especially once they settle down and start stacking nuggs into aggressive flower then back off till they start ripening off and u begin to implement your flush.
Hope that helps.

 

[KersD]

For sure, thank you both for your input. I appreciate anyone taking time to give some advice.. This is my first thread so I was hoping for something profound to come about, but I'll give it some time. Thank you PaperStreet especially, I needed some input from someone thats actually grown out the strain. She can get pretty lanky too if you dont stay on top of her!!

 

[KersD]

I cant believe that over 85 people have looked at this thread, but only 2 were cool enough to shed some kinda insight.. Thank you again PaperStreet and UnitedGrooves for at least taking 2 min to write SOMETHING.. I think I was pushing Babygirl to hard with high temps and lots of light, coupled with Supercropping while she was so deficient made it so she couldn't get better cuz Mum got considerably better as she stayed underneath in my little Veg/Clone part with less light and lower temps. + only 18/6 instead of the 24/0. So i put Babygirl back down there too, BUT only till she gets better! Then shes going back up to the big leagues cuz im very curious to see how she flowers out.. and i want her to get bigger first while hardening her off to the higher temps and Assload more light up there. I have Plenty of Exhaust power, but my custom design for running the 2 chambers isn't as efficient as I thought as Even tho I doubled my intake area I can't get my above area below 10 degrees above ambient house temp. which is set between 70-74 so when it gets to 74 in my house its 84F a whole foot away from 300 watts worth of cfls in a custom hood. I mean I could drop the temp more if I turned my exhaust blower to full power, but its pretty loud at full power so I'd rather not, And I shouldnt fucking have to with god damn CFL's thats one of the main reasons I went with CFL's because they supposedly dont give off heat!! LOL BULLSHIT!! Those motherfuckers get pretty fuckin hot, especially when you put enough of em together to grow a decent plant as i did..

 

[UNITEDGROOVES]

No prob Kers..

Post some new pics so we can see how they are responding to your care.. The bottom leaves that are yellowing out Just chop them off, you don't need them.. It'll help grow fresh sets of leaves faster on top.. Also did you top the ladies yet? Another thing I would do is get them out of those cups, they are big enough to for 5x5 square pots or 1 gal... It'll help with the growth rate and you'll see fresh sets of leaves faster..

 

[Seamaiden]

It's a misunderstanding to think *any* light does not give off some heat. CFLs give off heat, but nowhere nearly as much as HIDs, for example.

And, while I saw this thread, I chose not to take the time to respond specifically because the two posters who responded have you covered. There was no need to reiterate what they told you, IMO.

 

[JAWS]

some good guidance in here for sure.

KERSD
your about to go from

THIS

TO THIS

clearly not the same plant but the same exact problem.


good luck:snaphappy:

 

[KersD]

Wow, I think it takes awhile for me to see the alerts and new posts on my thread cuz i was checking yesterday i swore.. Either way THANK YOU for your input, Im new to this shit and just reading the forums for hours i started following JAWS and SeaMaiden cuz I could just tell they knew what they were talking about so to see the BOTH of you posted on here makes me feel better! Jaws, thanks for the pics, Im gonna post new pics just after this cuz they're lights come on at 11am so got another 10 min.. anyway Ive already gone to some nice green new foliage and they are growing pretty fast I'd say its just that the Purple stems aren't going away the way I'd hoped after 1 Mag foliar spray a day at 400ppms straight Mg/So4, and 350ppms cal/mag + 150ppms Mg/So4, with every water, well for the past few weeks at least, I had to step it up cuz they are sucking down the MAG FAST!

 

[KersD]

No prob Kers..

Post some new pics so we can see how they are responding to your care.. The bottom leaves that are yellowing out Just chop them off, you don't need them.. It'll help grow fresh sets of leaves faster on top.. Also did you top the ladies yet? Another thing I would do is get them out of those cups, they are big enough to for 5x5 square pots or 1 gal... It'll help with the growth rate and you'll see fresh sets of leaves faster..

Gonna post the new pics soon, and youll see they look pretty good, Mum looks really good, but babygirls showing way more signs of the deficiency still, I think its cuz i was stressing her so hard. Shes been back underneath in the kushy environment for a few days now and Im sure its helping, Kicked it up to 350ppm cal/mag and 150 ppm Mg/So4 just to water with cuz they need it. As for topping yeah I fimmed out babygirl a long time ago and her two top nodes stretched so I supercropped all the tops poking up and broke only one completely off out of my first 6 supercrops! LOL anyway, I just topped mum the other day and Im trying to clone the top cuz Ive never cloned before, we'll see how that goes. Ive heard its a hard strain to clone, but Im not sure that its even SFV! the pics Ive been looking at from another thread from someone who just sprouted fem beans straight from "cali-connection" arent matching very well with my leaves.. Thanks again tho bro.

 

[PaperStreet]

Well done Jaws its amazeing what a lil cal mag can do. I wouldnt reccomend anyone useing anymore than the max 15ml per gallon in solid mediums like coco and soil and such but ive ran certain strains all the way up too 20-30 ml/gallon in dwc with no ill effects but those where just heavy eating strains.

@ KersD read up a bit most growers that use coco presoak in a mild cal mag drench right from the gate.
Especially useing RO as RO is completely depleted of micro/macro nutrients u must put them back in..
For most strains anyway..

Dont overkill/care man a couple good feedings of calmag is all u need dont overfeed your coco as it has the tendency to build up in solid mediums.
Hope this helps.

 

[KersD]

No prob Kers..

Post some new pics so we can see how they are responding to your care.. The bottom leaves that are yellowing out Just chop them off, you don't need them.. It'll help grow fresh sets of leaves faster on top.. Also did you top the ladies yet? Another thing I would do is get them out of those cups, they are big enough to for 5x5 square pots or 1 gal... It'll help with the growth rate and you'll see fresh sets of leaves faster..

Below is a side shot of Babygirl I tied down the 2 main tops to the side after the supercrops healed up.

Here's the exact opposite side of Babygirl with a bit better lighting and you can see where I tied the tops down, Plus the yellowing in the older leaves and purple stems and veins EVERYWHERE.

Here's a nice top shot of Babygirl, Shes definetely gotten healthier and bigger but im trying to keep on top of her so she doesnt get out of hand, you can still see yellowing in some of the older leaves and DARK purple stems still but they're clearing up fast now with the high dose of cal/mag and Mg/So4 and the lower lighting. Cannopy is coming along pretty nicely so far, trying to keep her bushy, hopefully ScroG when shes ready!

Now this is a pic from the day before the last ones and this Mum, I topped a big chunk off of her a day or 2 before this pic and im cloning it, notice how she's pretty much all better from the deficiency already, and shes sucking down water and nutes fast yet shes a smaller plant. I kept her on the bottom the whole time and only did slight tie down LST, as opposed to Babygirl (above) which i threw up top under the big lights and high temps. for a few days, coupled with Supercropping and breaking one off accidentally. Thats my theory of why Mum cleared up so much faster...

Took another clone from her cuz it was big enough and went ahead and trimmed her up some more, as I said Im trying to keep her a bonsai mom, in case these turn out to be decent genetics id rather take clones from my first Gen. of the strain, if that makes any sense to you guys.. LOL anyway, this is what she looks like now.. sorry its kinda hard to see.

 

[KersD]

Well done Jaws its amazeing what a lil cal mag can do. I wouldnt reccomend anyone useing anymore than the max 15ml per gallon in solid mediums like coco and soil and such but ive ran certain strains all the way up too 20-30 ml/gallon in dwc with no ill effects but those where just heavy eating strains.

@ KersD read up a bit most growers that use coco presoak in a mild cal mag drench right from the gate.
Especially useing RO as RO is completely depleted of micro/macro nutrients u must put them back in..
For most strains anyway..

Dont overkill/care man a couple good feedings of calmag is all u need dont overfeed your coco as it has the tendency to build up in solid mediums.
Hope this helps.

I am a Noob I'll be the first to admit that these are my first to Cannabis plants EVER! Let alone I never did much Gardening before this, BUT I have done PLENTY of reading and I still haven't stopped! I'm on here and YouTube everyday trying to sift thru the BS and find good info. As for Literature I own and have read already, "Medical Horticulture, Bible" -Jorge Cervantes, "Marijuana 101"
-Professor Lee, "Cannabis Grow Bible" 2nd edition -Greg Green, and I'm almost done with Ed Rosenthal's "Marijuana Growers Handbook" Official Course Book of Oaksterdam University. So yeah I did charge my coco with 4ml/gal Cal/Mag, 3ml/gal FloraBlend, and a drop or 2 of Superthrive.. If you read my thread You would have seen in the first paragraph that I purchased the clones With a severe deficiency and got them into some better coco right away.

 

[UNITEDGROOVES]

looking good.. i can see the improvements...:) If the steams on the newst growth are coming out nice and green then you're feeding them right.. Don't worry about the purple steams on the old growth.. But please put her in a bigger container, Look at how thick the steam is, its already been in there for a long time, its time bro.. lol.. Peace

 

[KersD]

Just a lil update for you guys, they girls look better than they ever have as far as the purpling stems and shit, I now see the green from the new growth extending down the branches as the green streaks up the stalk are getting longer and reaching up to meet them so I finally figured I was feeding them with enough Mag. to keep the deficiency away. (SeaMaiden if you're reading this, Im 100% with you on getting seperate Cal. & Mag. additives) Now I'm running into a problem.. I stopped give both of them any actual Nutes over a week ago, they've been getting fed every 2 days with cal/mag 300ppm, Mg/So4 150ppm, 5ml Florablend/gal, and some Superthrive.. Dont get mad at me UnitedGrooves cuz I havent transplanted them up yet.. so now they're drinking everyday, I mixed a new batch of just straight cal/mag water with the same ppms as before with both, but no Florablend, just a bit of silica blast for Ph up, oh yeah the ph Has been 5.9 but i heard mag uptakes better at lower pH so when I watered yesterday it was 5.7. and 450ppm or 0.9 E.C. Anyway, I checked the runoff for the fuck of it and both plants coming out almost exactly the same @ pH 6.3-6.4 and a tds of fucking over 700, this is what Im worried about. So i was reading around last night and found this.
"Coco is a media that tends to retain elements over time. With most coco nutrient systems, plus calcium supplementation, the excessive levels of calcium that are necessary to fill the cation bank when the media is "unconditioned" and the plant is vegetating are no longer needed once the media has built a cation bank and the plant is transitioned to flowering. Typically this coincides to the full transition to flowering when the plant itself needs less calcium. So, as the media requires less, and the plant requires less, we still continue to drop in a high Ca nutrient solution. These calcium ions can then interfere with the uptake of other cations like Magnesium and Potassium. Although the scale has not been tipped completely (or perhaps the issues have not presented yet) it appears that the solution you have been using is imbalanced for the particulars of your phenotype and the maturity of your media. Given that we're talking about coco I am just going to go out on a limb and assume that it's a touch too much Ca in the mixture these days. Do what you can to reduce that element while increasing Magnesium and Potassium, all while trying to keep your runoff EC within 30% of the solution EC, and I think that your plants will continue to be healthy and productive."

NOW, im thinking ok Ive been throwing sooo much Cal/Mag at em and theyve been in those solo cups for about a month already. The Medium is plenty well stocked on CAL. and if i continue to overfeed the Cal. Im gonna lock out Mag. again ALL BAD!! Thats what I DONT WANT!! Some of the newer leaves are yellowing at the tips just slightly and some have started around the edges a bit, is this K deficiency starting due to the high CAL? I would LOVE to get them into bigger containers, but my rookie ass problem is that my room wasn't finished when I was able to get some clones so I brought them in a bit early. In order for me to put the plant that Im gonna flower up in the flowering area I need to get the temps down in the so some more work needs to be done.​

I know this is fucking long, and im sorry. Im just trying to get as much 411 out as i can so i get Good replies. Im thinking maybe I should water them today with a half strength cal/mag (compared to what ive been feeding at) with emphasis on the Mg/So4, and get a good 40-50% runoff i can get my Coco'c E.C. down a bit. then go back to full strength and keep up on the runnoff as to not let it get so high.
P.S. Since Im transplanting the one plant to a much bigger container with new coco I will be feeding it the way I have been with now half strength of anything, for at least about 3 weeks till i feel the coco's established a good CEC bank for CAL. then drop the calimagic down and keep the Mg/So4, obviously by this time she'll be getting a good feeding of Full nutes.

 

[KersD]

I gotta wait another hour till the lights come on in there and ill go take some new pics for you guys

 

[Seamaiden]

I have had Ca problems crop up during flowering, but not many Mg problems. Remember that BOTH can be given via foliar feeds, which will help prevent the very build-up being discussed in that quote (though I'm not 100% + about the balance of Ca to Mg and K), and that it's most important to pay attention to the plant rather than numbers. So, it does sound like the plant is responding, yes? Do that transplant and I think you'll continue to see a good response, the plant will be better able to use what's available as it grows more root mass, responding with more vegetative growth (that you may have to cut away--that's what I'd use for the next round of clones).

Uh... you know you're really pushing the Mg pretty hard if you're using both a Cal-Mag product and MgSO4, right? I wouldn't do that, myself, it pushes the ratio the wrong way IMO. If you're going to use MgSO4, then you should use a Ca-only product and get that ratio right. What's the ratio of Ca:Mg in that product? If it's not 4:1-6:1 Ca:Mg, then it's too low on the Ca IMO and IME.

Are you familiar with the Mulder's Mineral Wheel?

 

[KersD]

Im gonna keep looking at that wheel but its just confusing me more right now... I understand what you meant about pushing the mag so hard, and the ratio of cal to mag in CaliMagic is 1.5% Mag - 5% Ca, and its derived from mag Nitrate. Thats why Im backing off the calimagic, keeping with the Mg/So4 cuz I know they need it, but start giving actual nutes to Her. Im using G.H. Flora series and the micro has 5% Ca + the bloom has 1.5% Mag. I just mixed a low 0.58 EC solution using just 0.2ml/0.25gal. Micro, 0.7ml/0.25gal Bloom, and about a third of an 1/8t tsp of MgSo4 into that same 1/4 Gal. Ph5.6, gonna run that thru em today with close to 50% runoff to bring the E.C. of the Coco down hopefully. Ive been using the 1-1-1 ration they recommend but at half strengh when I did give them nutes and I will continue that now while still in veg, but upping the E.C. as needed. Im thinking Im gonna switch to the lucas formula and Mg/So4 when I flip and as long as it goes well I'll keep with it. BTW THANK YOU sooooo much SeaMaiden for ALL of your help. I hope you're not getting frustrated with me yet, cuz I would be by now! LOL