maybe a switch from 600's to 1000's??

[harley34]

Hi what do use think of this idea

At the moment im running x9 600watt mini grostars, but this time im getting rid of the grostars for adjusta wings, grostars take up too much height etc

So im thinking while im re doing things instead of x9 600watt lights why not go for x6 1000watt lights, and get the large adjusta wings instead of the smaller ones.

The room is 4mx4m so 16m2. But the actual growing area is about 3.5mx3.5m so about 12m2.

The large 1000watt adjusta wing reflectors will more than cover this area, im planning on seting them up in 2 rows of 3 lights so

X-X-X
X-X-X

X=LIGHTS
- =SPACE BETWEEN LIGHTS

Im gaining 600watts if i go with the 1000's over the 600's. If i run the 1000's the bulbs will be more spread out than the 600's you know because of less lights etc than the 600's, so would this make it easier to cool the room, or would the heat of the 1000's be more intense.

Not that i have any problems cooling my room, just wondering if the 6 1000's will make the room alot hotter than the 9 600's. What do use think?

Pro for 600's:

Can just switch over my reflectors, no messing with wires or upgrading to 1000watt ballast. Dont have to make new light rails

Pro's for 1000's:

More intense light, will yield more overall. Any more?

It would be easier to just switch the reflectors and stick with the 600's but if theres any other benefits to switching over to 1000's that will benefit me im prepared to do the work, what do use think?

Which do use think will get a better light coverage over the canopy with the adjusta wings in my space and size, the 9 evenly spaced 600's or more intense 6 1000's. Yield wise?

 

[symbiote420]

I just bought a 1000 was using a six but when I went in one of my friend's house his one 1000w HPS though it didn't cover as much space as my other friends six 600s it was so much brighter with the one lamp that's when I found out lumens don't add up which floored me but it's true, my buddy with the six 600s his room is no brighter than mine which had only one.
I already have a light rail so that will help deal with the heat from the thouwow!

 

[harley34]

what do you mean "the lumens dont add up"

 

[audius]

i say go for it . if you can keep the big boy cool enough do it.

 

[symbiote420]

what do you mean "the lumens dont add up"

Whether you have 1, 2, or 20 - 600 watters the footprint or area they cover will only be larger but the overall light intensity of the garden will still be 90,000 lumens or so. Watts add up, lumens do not.

 

[freegrow]

wonder if PAR is as this also .........lumens are for the human eye not plants
plants use PAR photosynthetically active radiation

what your saying is that all lumens run concurrent not accumulative right?

90,000 beside 90,000 lumens is still 90,000 lumens is this true with PAR?

 

[theTinker]

Whether you have 1, 2, or 20 - 600 watters the footprint or area they cover will only be larger but the overall light intensity of the garden will still be 90,000 lumens or so. Watts add up, lumens do not.

I dont see how this could be true at all. I dont get where this info ever comes from either. Nor can i see how it hasnt been just made a fact or fiction yet. Like its an easily demonstrable theory.

I find my eyes tell me alot different.
If im in a room with 1*600, versus 5*600, I sure see a much brighter room.

If I put 4 cfls around a plant, so that its pretty much 360 spread, versus 50 cfls, I sure see a much brighter lit plant. Any room with 4 light chandliers work on this principle, which is why they exist.

And this lumen measurement, sure its practically derived from this effect. They measure photons hitting the meter. Add more photons, adds more lumen count to the measurement.

I have a room with a 600 on it right now, i added another, i notice a HUGE increase in bud production, and the two lights are right beside each other with only 30CM gap distance max. The increase is huge comparing to my last grow.

Anyways. OP, Can you say what style of growing you have? If its Scrog or SOG for example, then penetration means ALOT less, so buying 1000watters are much less useful over many already purchased 600's.
If you are growing trees, and the distance to center of the tree is large and the extra penetration would be benefical.

I like 600s in for a few reasons,
1, i already own them.
2, i can get closer to my plants (12inchs V 18inches) which adds a huge % of light to 600s for a direct comparison. Sure, i dont think the maths to figure out how much lumens get to a plant from a 18inch 1000watt V 12 inch 600 would be that hard to do. (I dont know the maths btw :))
3, cost of the inital investment must damn well be worth the extra benefits. 6 ballasts + bulbs..
4, As you are putting a gap between the 1000s, i think a better use would be No gap, and more lights? ie: the 600s.


I do like the idea of 1000s, but only for appropriate grows, eg: varying heights in canopy, or tall plants, etc. 600s rock for thier scrog or sog niches.

 

[MakinGoo]

If u can make the upgrade & keep ur room kool I would say do it.. I recently switched from 600 to 1000 watts & I'm very impressed with the 1000 watt light. But I'm a small grower with only 1 light.. But I'm betting u would love the upgrade.. The buds get 2-3 times bigger with a 1000 watt light.. But they r a whole lot hotter. But well worth the extra heat

 

[theTinker]

OP, u mentioned Height problems.

Will the extra height u have to keep the lights from the plants for 1000watters make it possible to gain any height in your situation. Eg: Will you save more than 7-8 inches by replacing these reflectors? and how many inches will you gain..
I guess its 12inches + hood height V 18 inches + reflector height.
Might make a difference to your decision?

 

[harley34]

I dont see how this could be true at all. I dont get where this info ever comes from either. Nor can i see how it hasnt been just made a fact or fiction yet. Like its an easily demonstrable theory.

I find my eyes tell me alot different.
If im in a room with 1*600, versus 5*600, I sure see a much brighter room.

If I put 4 cfls around a plant, so that its pretty much 360 spread, versus 50 cfls, I sure see a much brighter lit plant. Any room with 4 light chandliers work on this principle, which is why they exist.

And this lumen measurement, sure its practically derived from this effect. They measure photons hitting the meter. Add more photons, adds more lumen count to the measurement.

I have a room with a 600 on it right now, i added another, i notice a HUGE increase in bud production, and the two lights are right beside each other with only 30CM gap distance max. The increase is huge comparing to my last grow.

Anyways. OP, Can you say what style of growing you have? If its Scrog or SOG for example, then penetration means ALOT less, so buying 1000watters are much less useful over many already purchased 600's.
If you are growing trees, and the distance to center of the tree is large and the extra penetration would be benefical.

I like 600s in for a few reasons,
1, i already own them.
2, i can get closer to my plants (12inchs V 18inches) which adds a huge % of light to 600s for a direct comparison. Sure, i dont think the maths to figure out how much lumens get to a plant from a 18inch 1000watt V 12 inch 600 would be that hard to do. (I dont know the maths btw :))
3, cost of the inital investment must damn well be worth the extra benefits. 6 ballasts + bulbs..
4, As you are putting a gap between the 1000s, i think a better use would be No gap, and more lights? ie: the 600s.


I do like the idea of 1000s, but only for appropriate grows, eg: varying heights in canopy, or tall plants, etc. 600s rock for thier scrog or sog niches.

my general tactic of growing is pretty simple 11Litre square pots, coco, veg till my chosen height, put them into flower and throw a net over them to support the nugs etc. I dont grow vertically or massive plants. Iv been playing about with 5 gallon smart pots, and growing small bushy plants, but think im gonna go back to 11litre pots with shorter veg time.

I know what your saying about getting the 600's closer. What about them light spreaders you can put on the adjusta wings to dissipate the heat more efficiently with 1000's so you can get them lower to the canopy?

The bad side of getting 1000's is i would need to buy new ballast and bulbs. Then again though, im prepared to put the money in if in any way its going to benefit me.

Would love to fit them 600's in the middle of the 1000's but im maxxed out on power, thats why id only be running the 6 1000's so its only 600watt extra on power than my last setup.

 

[symbiote420]

I dont see how this could be true at all. I dont get where this info ever comes from either. Nor can i see how it hasnt been just made a fact or fiction yet. Like its an easily demonstrable theory.

I find my eyes tell me alot different.
If im in a room with 1*600, versus 5*600, I sure see a much brighter room.

If I put 4 cfls around a plant, so that its pretty much 360 spread, versus 50 cfls, I sure see a much brighter lit plant. Any room with 4 light chandliers work on this principle, which is why they exist.

And this lumen measurement, sure its practically derived from this effect. They measure photons hitting the meter. Add more photons, adds more lumen count to the measurement.

I have a room with a 600 on it right now, i added another, i notice a HUGE increase in bud production, and the two lights are right beside each other with only 30CM gap distance max. The increase is huge comparing to my last grow.

Anyways. OP, Can you say what style of growing you have? If its Scrog or SOG for example, then penetration means ALOT less, so buying 1000watters are much less useful over many already purchased 600's.
If you are growing trees, and the distance to center of the tree is large and the extra penetration would be benefical.

I like 600s in for a few reasons,
1, i already own them.
2, i can get closer to my plants (12inchs V 18inches) which adds a huge % of light to 600s for a direct comparison. Sure, i dont think the maths to figure out how much lumens get to a plant from a 18inch 1000watt V 12 inch 600 would be that hard to do. (I dont know the maths btw :))
3, cost of the inital investment must damn well be worth the extra benefits. 6 ballasts + bulbs..
4, As you are putting a gap between the 1000s, i think a better use would be No ghqwap, and more lights? ie: the 600s.


I do like the idea of 1000s, but only for appropriate grows, eg: varying heights in canopy, or tall plants, etc. 600s rock for thier scrog or sog niches.

Here's the deal if (1) 600 = 90,000 lumens, add 4 more you don't get 450,000 lumens your eye would fry, please believe it! Even with flos when they sell 20,000 lumen (2zx4 bulb) units you will only get 5,000, me and my used a light meter to prove this watch when you put it under all those lights it keeps reading the same as one light...Idk about PAR though.

 

[harley34]

If u can make the upgrade & keep ur room kool I would say do it.. I recently switched from 600 to 1000 watts & I'm very impressed with the 1000 watt light. But I'm a small grower with only 1 light.. But I'm betting u would love the upgrade.. The buds get 2-3 times bigger with a 1000 watt light.. But they r a whole lot hotter. But well worth the extra heat

these are the posts that make me wanna change to 1000's, when people say the size of the buds get alot bigger.

So you reckon 6 1000's would be alot hotter than my current setup (9 600's)

 

[harley34]

OP, u mentioned Height problems.

Will the extra height u have to keep the lights from the plants for 1000watters make it possible to gain any height in your situation. Eg: Will you save more than 7-8 inches by replacing these reflectors? and how many inches will you gain..
I guess its 12inches + hood height V 18 inches + reflector height.
Might make a difference to your decision?

im ok for height now, im getting rid of my raised 2ft platform, so will have no problems for height. Good thought though!

 

[theTinker]

my general tactic of growing is pretty simple 11Litre square pots, coco, veg till my chosen height, put them into flower and throw a net over them to support the nugs etc. I dont grow vertically or massive plants. Iv been playing about with 5 gallon smart pots, and growing small bushy plants, but think im gonna go back to 11litre pots with shorter veg time.

I know what your saying about getting the 600's closer. What about them light spreaders you can put on the adjusta wings to dissipate the heat more efficiently with 1000's so you can get them lower to the canopy?

The bad side of getting 1000's is i would need to buy new ballast and bulbs. Then again though, im prepared to put the money in if in any way its going to benefit me.

Would love to fit them 600's in the middle of the 1000's but im maxxed out on power, thats why id only be running the 6 1000's so its only 600watt extra on power than my last setup.

Yes, Perhaps you are in a different financial situation than me but I'd want to really know thier was a well paying difference to upgrade all that equipment.

Since you are planning shorter veg times in 11 Liter pots, I dont see what help the 1000s will be as you will not be using them for penetration value. Just thier spread.

As thier spread is more than the spread of a 600, but you've less of them, Lets say we knock off 200watts off each to compensate for thier extra coverage required. (extra width + length required for light foot print)
Then knock off a bit more to compensate for thier extra distance from the canopy due to thier heat.
Im only estimating but thats getting alot closer to 600power anyways.
and since your more interested in spread than penetration (assuming you go ahead with the short veg times), then the 600s offer a much more even spread.

They'll run slightly cooler as they are 600 watts less in total, and they are more efficent per watt. Which pretty much compensates for the lesser 600watts. while maintaining cooler temps.

This is how i see it anyways. I'm no pro, only 5-6 grows under my belt.

I dont know about the extra heat dissapation from the spreaders? Im a big fan of keeping all heat possible in the cooltubes/hoods and blowing it out. I prefer to not try dissapate it over a large area in my room. This would just add to ur AC bill to remove it, and admits extra heat will be generated to your room (which i assume you'd only do if thier was a major benefit to doing so!)

 

[theTinker]

Here's the deal if (1) 600 = 90,000 lumens, add 4 more you don't get 450,000 lumens your eye would fry, please believe it! Even with flos when they sell 20,000 lumen (2zx4 bulb) units you will only get 5,000, me and my used a light meter to prove this watch when you put it under all those lights it keeps reading the same as one light...Idk about PAR though.

When i shine a torch/flashlight on a wall. i see some light, when i shine 3-4 of the same type from the same distance on the same spot, its MUCH brighter.
Do you know how this is so? and if its lumens adding? or is thier something else at play im not versed in?

I've no equipment to measure this so im only working with my eyes.

In my grow room, I could work with 2*600 in a white empty room, when i added the third tho, it did become painful to try look around. just too bright, felt like my eyes were trying to contract smaller than possible.

If i lay a stem sideways with a bud and place a 600watt light over. Are you saying that adding another 600 at the same spot above it wouldnt get any extra light to it? (this conflicts against the flashlight example), do you think it would grow the or better?

 

[symbiote420]

What you are noticing is more light coverage not more light intensity, with all those 600s they still will only have the same canopy penetration of one six, they just will be hitting it from more angles getting light to areas that are usually shaded thus increasing yield thru coverage not penetration, taller plants will need 1000 watters and the lumens they provide to fill out the lower buds. My light meter can't be lying, trust me on this I couldn't believe it either bro.

 

[ibTheMan]

i aint read much of this, but 1000w are alot better then 600w'ers for sure, hell 430w is not much different then an 600w.

 

[harley34]

this is doing my nut in, keep reading posts and thinking right fuck it im going for the 1000's then read other posts like tinkers, and think you know what hes got a point.

Theres no way i can mix things up like have a 1000 inbetween the 600's because the reflectors and on a hanger rail system all at the same height, so the 1000's will be burning the canopy at the same level of the 600's

check out this link for the adjusta wings layout option, each 1000watt size reflector covers 2.2mx1.8m thats 4m2. my rooms only 12m2, so with 6 of them nice and spaced out im gonna have tons of light in a good way, im thinking more intense that the more spaced out 9x 600s.

does anyone remember that little picture that was flying about on here a while back detailing the power of a 1000watt bulb compare to 600's and 400's.

tinker when i say smaller veg time, i dont mean il be vegging for hardly nothing, just meant on my last run i veg for ages!, so just gonna cut it down abit.

thanks again for all the replies, helps me so much

 

[freegrow]

1. 1000w'ers penetrate deeper than 600w in a horazontial position

2. 600w converts power more efficently and run cooler

3. 1000w are 110k to 145 k lumens for HPS

but like Sym said if you place each light at the say 600w foot print of 4' x 4' or even the 1000w'ers at 5' x 5' weather you have 1 or 100 each 4' x4' or 5' x 5' space will have a constant lumen out put of for 6s 90k to 95 k and for 1000w'ers 110k to 145k now if you put 3 1000w'ers as close as you can like 1" apart this should increse the lumens for the spicific 5' x5' area hope this helped

 

[theTinker]

this is doing my nut in, keep reading posts and thinking right fuck it im going for the 1000's then read other posts like tinkers, and think you know what hes got a point.

Theres no way i can mix things up like have a 1000 inbetween the 600's because the reflectors and on a hanger rail system all at the same height, so the 1000's will be burning the canopy at the same level of the 600's

check out this link for the adjusta wings layout option, each 1000watt size reflector covers 2.2mx1.8m thats 4m2. my rooms only 12m2, so with 6 of them nice and spaced out im gonna have tons of light in a good way, im thinking more intense that the more spaced out 9x 600s.

does anyone remember that little picture that was flying about on here a while back detailing the power of a 1000watt bulb compare to 600's and 400's.

tinker when i say smaller veg time, i dont mean il be vegging for hardly nothing, just meant on my last run i veg for ages!, so just gonna cut it down abit.

thanks again for all the replies, helps me so much

haha, I know your pain harley. Last week i had to make the exact same decision for a new tent im setting up. It drove me up the wall.
It eventually led to me buying 600s but of course, whatever u buy, u'll be left wondering... What if? :)

I think you should work out a list of pros and cons and let that cleverness do the thinking for you. Thiers pros and cons to both, so recirculating them in ur head never helps much!

I wonder if anyone can do the math for us. A nerd is needed!
total lumens over spread area taken into account the 12inches distance for 600s, and 18inches for 1000s. We know we get 1/4 light at double the distance so it shouldnt be too hard ot figure out. This would really sort this out.

Do you have any heat issues during the hotter months which you may need to knock of 1/3 of your lights etc? This is one of the reasons i went with 600s, May-Aug, I cant run full power.