Micronized Sulfur vs Neem Oil (outdoor; broad mites)

[Zill]

You’re growing outside? I was wondering if the seed lot in general had a genetic defect. But you say it comes and goes with same seed lot. Just for giggles, I wonder if you cloned, rooted a side shoot if it would also display the same characteristics. We don’t want to this into a dissertation, got that.

If you choose to cut and burn and you’re growing indoors I can help you with good disinfection practices. I worked and managed for years vaccine filling clean rooms. No, you don’t have classified clean room but some disinfection products work really well.

 

[deadbeet]

You’re growing outside? I was wondering if the seed lot in general had a genetic defect. But you say it comes and goes with same seed lot. Just for giggles, I wonder if you cloned, rooted a side shoot if it would also display the same characteristics. We don’t want to this into a dissertation, got that.

If you choose to cut and burn and you’re growing indoors I can help you with good disinfection practices. I worked and managed for years vaccine filling clean rooms. No, you don’t have classified clean room but some disinfection products work really well.

Outdoors, yea. This is my first year experiencing these symptoms in any degree.

 

[Zill]

Outdoors, yea. This is my first year experiencing these symptoms in any degree.

DB,

Let me know if you need information regarding disinfecting a grow tent or grow room. Jeez, wish we knew the causative agent.

 

[Trash_2002]

i'm really sorry to see this. if you didn't spotted broad or russet mites under microscope
i'm thinking it could probably be a root problem like Fusarium Wilt or some kind of bad fungi root attack.
Maybe (less probable), it could a virus even when i don't know any that would cause what i see in this pictures.

if its fungi related, the raised beds you use exchange fully the soil for a brand new batch for next cycle.. and before putting the new soil in do a good cleaning sanitization of the beds. Use a good different soil/media brand too if possible.
And maybe even relocate the garden for a different area of your land.

 

[Deadstill]

i'm really sorry to see this. if you didn't spotted broad or russet mites under microscope
i'm thinking it could probably be a root problem like Fusarium Wilt or some kind of bad fungi root attack.
Maybe (less probable), it could a virus even when i don't know any that would cause what i see in this pictures.

if its fungi related, the raised beds you use exchange fully the soil for a brand new batch for next cycle.. and before putting the new soil in do a good cleaning sanitization of the beds. Use a good different soil/media brand too if possible.
And maybe even relocate the garden for a different area of your land.

I would buy some Xtreme Gardening Mykos and use that to inoculate the soil for future runs.

Personally, I've found it to be a great product and you can reproduce it yourself very easily. I used 1 part molasses to 4 parts water in a 5 gallon bucket, add Mykos to the mix at recommended mix ratio listed on the package, and cover the bucket and let it sit in a relatively cool dark place (around 60 to 70 degrees) for a couple of months. Then you'll have basically an unlimited supply of beneficial fungi.

 

[Trash_2002]

I would buy some Xtreme Gardening Mykos and use that to inoculate the soil for future runs.

Personally, I've found it to be a great product and you can reproduce it yourself very easily. I used 1 part molasses to 4 parts water in a 5 gallon bucket, add Mykos to the mix at recommended mix ratio listed on the package, and cover the bucket and let it sit in a relatively cool dark place (around 60 to 70 degrees) for a couple of months. Then you'll have basically an unlimited supply of beneficial fungi.

yep i use great white for years, just love that stuff, its kinda expensive but it lasts a very long time. you could even make a perpetual aerated culture tea with it if you really want.. smells like horse ass but plants love it LOL

 

[deadbeet]

i'm really sorry to see this. if you didn't spotted broad or russet mites under microscope
i'm thinking it could probably be a root problem like Fusarium Wilt or some kind of bad fungi root attack.
Maybe (less probable), it could a virus even when i don't know any that would cause what i see in this pictures.

if its fungi related, the raised beds you use exchange fully the soil for a brand new batch for next cycle.. and before putting the new soil in do a good cleaning sanitization of the beds. Use a good different soil/media brand too if possible.
And maybe even relocate the garden for a different area of your land.

Any way you know of to test for fusarium? And/or other symptoms I might look for? I’ve uncovered some roots here n there and they appear healthy.

Gosh I dread the idea of moving my grow. These beds are years in the making and now fenced. That being said, I’m sure I’ll spread out next year, probably plant a few in this old space as well as start anew.

 

[Trash_2002]

Any way you know of to test for fusarium? And/or other symptoms I might look for? I’ve uncovered some roots here n there and they appear healthy.

Gosh I dread the idea of moving my grow. These beds are years in the making and now fenced. That being said, I’m sure I’ll spread out next year, probably plant a few in this old space as well as start anew.

With fusarium normally there's rotten base stalks, and general wilting of plants.

using a good timely mykos or great white inoculation in a new media will prevent future root bad fungi infections.

 

[Zill]

Db,

Don’t relocate. You have a microscope. Trash makes a good point about a fusarium infection. Fusarium creates really elegant looking spores. Very diagnostic. The only problem is you may see fusarium spores but it may not the the fungus casing the problem. We don’t want to get involved with Koch’s Postulate's to definitively ID the pest either.

Trash and burn. When those plants were seedlings did you notice any peculiarities?

 

[deadbeet]

Db,

Don’t relocate. You have a microscope. Trash makes a good point about a fusarium infection. Fusarium creates really elegant looking spores. Very diagnostic. The only problem is you may see fusarium spores but it may not the the fungus casing the problem. We don’t want to get involved with Koch’s Postulate's to definitively ID the pest either.

Trash and burn. When those plants were seedlings did you notice any peculiarities?

Nothing unusual as seedlings, no. And I’m not finding rotten stalks or general wilting either.

Wish there was a way to test for Witches Broom cuz my gut tells me that’s what I’m up against.

And there’s those words! “Trash and burn!” I don’t wanna admit it but my gut also tells me that’s what I oughta do. If basically every plant is affected by whatever I have going on, is there much risk to just letting em run their course? What I’ve read about Witches Broom (and phytoplasmas in general) is that they live solely on plant matter and inside insects, namely leafhoppers rather than in soil. So long as I pull everything out at season’s end and bring it straight to the burn pile, seem risky to let em go in the meantime?

Say, a quick bit sincere ‘thank you’ to the folks I’m presently rapping with about this. In 13 years, I’ve never faced a scenario like this. It’s heartbreaking. Helpful to have a community of folks to troubleshoot with, truly. Thanks again..

 

[Scoopaloop]

Hey, folks.

My outdoor grow here in the (very) Upper Midwest is in ruff shape. I've posted a couple times, done some troubleshooting on my own, and have concluded that I may have (among other things) a broad mite infestation. It's a first for me as someone who's grown here, outdoors, for 13+ years.

I've been spraying primarily Azamax & Essentria IC3 the last couple weeks, occasionally throwing Spinosad into the mix. The infestation is bad enough that it's hard to tell if I'm making a dent.

My question(s) at the moment pertain to sulfur and/or neem oil. I ordered some of each and they'll likely arrive by the end of this week. I understand I can't use sulfur within approx 2 weeks of any oil-based product or risk burning. My first question, then, is do folks have a preference of one over the other, particularly as it applies to battling mites? My concern is that if I spray sulfur I may not have time to apply anything else before I presumably head into flower by the end of the month. I'm reluctant to spray really anything once my plants are flowering although maybe folks have opinions on that. Perhaps I'm alright up until the buds really start taking shape?

I'll also mention that I'm aware that once a grow has been as overcome by broad mites (among other things) as mine has, most treatments will only be so effective. I've considered removing the worst looking portions of my plants but, to be perfectly honest, that may well be 60-75% of my garden. Is this a band-aid I should rip off at this point? Can folks speak to what broad mites will likely do to my finished buds? I understand that in some cases the buds will brown out and die but am I just as likely to see some decent flowers out there? Further, will these little buggers post up in my soil, necessitating I move my grow next year?

Thanks for your time. Although I've included them in previous posts, I've attached a couple "Greatest Hits" pics of my grow this year just to bring folks up to speed on my situation. Thanks again.. very helpful community here!

Is that what mites do to the leaves?

You’re growing outside? I was wondering if the seed lot in general had a genetic defect. But you say it comes and goes with same seed lot. Just for giggles, I wonder if you cloned, rooted a side shoot if it would also display the same characteristics. We don’t want to this into a dissertation, got that.

If you choose to cut and burn and you’re growing indoors I can help you with good disinfection practices. I worked and managed for years vaccine filling clean rooms. No, you don’t have classified clean room but some disinfection products work really well.

Is that what mites do to the leaves? Make them curl like that?

 

[Zill]

Scoop,

Good question and typically mites don’t do that. We are simply in a quandary diagnosing this. It’s odd. Hopefully a one off and doesn’t return.

 

[deadbeet]

i'm really sorry to see this. if you didn't spotted broad or russet mites under microscope
i'm thinking it could probably be a root problem like Fusarium Wilt or some kind of bad fungi root attack.
Maybe (less probable), it could a virus even when i don't know any that would cause what i see in this pictures.

if its fungi related, the raised beds you use exchange fully the soil for a brand new batch for next cycle.. and before putting the new soil in do a good cleaning sanitization of the beds. Use a good different soil/media brand too if possible.
And maybe even relocate the garden for a different area of your land.

I pulled one of my worst looking plants in order to have a look at the roots as well as the inside of the trunk (see: attached). I feel like it's pretty healthy looking, no? I don't detect anything that resembles what I've read about fusarium but maybe you wanna weigh in?

I spied a single mite under my microscope earlier and wish I would've tried to snap a pic (seems like I could pull that off with the limited technology I have at my fingertips). It was clear w/ brown eyes and long antennae. No notable stripe down the back (as with broad mites). The bottoms of most leaves I look at under the microscope definitely have some eggs of some kind on them. However, they're not dimpled like I would suspect with broad mites.. they look a little milky I guess.

 

[Trash_2002]

I pulled one of my worst looking plants in order to have a look at the roots as well as the inside of the trunk (see: attached). I feel like it's pretty healthy looking, no? I don't detect anything that resembles what I've read about fusarium but maybe you wanna weigh in?

I spied a single mite under my microscope earlier and wish I would've tried to snap a pic (seems like I could pull that off with the limited technology I have at my fingertips). It was clear w/ brown eyes and long antennae. No notable stripe down the back (as with broad mites). The bottoms of most leaves I look at under the microscope definitely have some eggs of some kind on them. However, they're not dimpled like I would suspect with broad mites.. they look a little milky I guess.

Yep roots and stems doesn't look bad at all.
Quite a strange problem you have there, to be fair. Only thing left is a different pathogen/virus brought by a vector insect, maybe that one that layed down the milky eggs. What is crazy is that there are pretty nasty apical nodes mutations happening there. I'm puzzled by this one, I even made a search for look a like images to not much pertinent results.

 

[Trash_2002]

Yep roots and stems doesn't look bad at all.
Quite a strange problem you have there, to be fair. Only thing left is a different pathogen/virus brought by a vector insect, maybe that one that layed down the milky eggs. What is crazy is that there are pretty nasty apical nodes mutations happening there. I'm puzzled by this one, I even made a search for look a like images to not much pertinent results.

Some leaves looks like that "freakshow" genetic witch was bred trough a mutation trait and stabilized with the mutation trait to look "freaky".

 

[deadbeet]

Yep roots and stems doesn't look bad at all.
Quite a strange problem you have there, to be fair. Only thing left is a different pathogen/virus brought by a vector insect, maybe that one that layed down the milky eggs. What is crazy is that there are pretty nasty apical nodes mutations happening there. I'm puzzled by this one, I even made a search for look a like images to not much pertinent results.

Yea, the closest thing I can find that resembles my situation is Witches Broom. I felt like I read somewhere that there can even be regional variations to symptoms associated with WB although the overall effect is stunted plants, abnormal growth, etc. Sigh. First near-total crop loss of any plant of any kind I've grown in 13 years. It hits hard! Oh well.. I learned a little bit this year for sure.

 

[Trash_2002]

Yea, the closest thing I can find that resembles my situation is Witches Broom. I felt like I read somewhere that there can even be regional variations to symptoms associated with WB although the overall effect is stunted plants, abnormal growth, etc. Sigh. First near-total crop loss of any plant of any kind I've grown in 13 years. It hits hard! Oh well.. I learned a little bit this year for sure.

only found two papers about witches broom cases in cannabis, one in india and other in china. both more than 10 years ago

and this one 2018 Nevada - USA

https://apsjournals.apsnet.org/doi/10.1094/PDIS-01-19-0098-PDN

 

[Trash_2002]

from the 2018 nevada report they found it at two different site in nevada it seems:

"Symptomatic leaves showed “green islands” that were constrained by the veins on the upper leaf surface, and interveinal discoloration on the lower surface, forming a pale “pustule-like” appearance. One infected plant with 80% of leaves exhibiting symptoms was sampled from the Central Nevada site. One infected plant with 50% of leaves exhibiting symptoms was sampled from the Southern Nevada site."

Could very well be a very rare case of witches broom in cannabis.
The description kinda matches what we see here, with pustule-like appearance and green islands etc ....

 

[Starzfarmer]

Mycorrhized sulfur works incredibly well. I would recommend spraying it every 2 days for at least three sessions, Also, using a BT soil drench. To kill larvae in the soil. Azamax works well to slow them down.