Monkey's UC and Organic Grow

[skankymonkey23]

Hello Folks,

I have been working with the Undercurrent for around 1 1/2 years now and still haven't gotten it working like the Big Boys. I have had 3 good runs, one great run(my first run), and 2 HORRIBLE runs. Each time I have had major problems with the PH dropping. Some worse than others, but always a drop. I am about ready to scrap the system but want to give it one more run with some help from the Farm.

Room:

- 16 ft length x 11 ft wide x 8 ft tall
- Two 600W HPS and one 1000W HPS (tried dual arc but the bulb kept flickering and going out on me).
- 15,000 BTU wall mounted AC
- 8 X 13G UC System in the middle under lights
- 1 row of plants growing in organic soil on either side of UC
- Sealed, CO2.
- 5 wall mounts fans

Nutrients:
Zone @ 1ml/G
MagiCal @ 1ml/G
Epsom Salt @ whatever rate brings PPM up to 150 or 200 (had serious Magnesium deficiency(i suspect) during week 5 of both bad runs) **added P/K boost each time and had the problems... maybe someone can enlighted me**
Canna Flores A and B
PH up (sometimes Silica, sometimes tap water, sometimes PH UP)
Each time I have run the system the plants get angry if I go past 650 PPM, no higher. Anyone else have this happen all ?

I used to run Canna Boost and Roots Excell without Zone but decided to run a sterile system because i have had brown roots in the past and am wondering if that is the problem.
Each time I have run the system the plants are happy under 650 PPM, no higher. Anyone else have this issue?


Here are a few pics of the Room, my Super Skunk run, and my current run.

Can anyone tell me what they think is happening to the plant from my current run? My PH is surprisingly stable this run @ 5.5 PPM @ 560 but the plants aren't looking well.

I want to upload more photos but I am having trouble with the upload process failing and timing out. I will try again tomorrow.

 

[medmaneast]

How high is ur water level? plants that size, water should be well bellow the net pot.

 

[medmaneast]

About your ppm levels. If your running canna I believe you should be reading ppm on the 700 scale seeing as how canna is made in Europe. what kind of meter are you using because if you are running on the 500 scale, 650ppm is actually almost 1000ppm.
just a thought?

 

[woodsmaneh]

650 is not that rare, it's where I run my plants ans some times I go to 750 but never any higher.

I think your problem is humidity, not enough! You should try to be around 60%+ except for the last 10 days let it go down to 40%.

I used Canna for 2 runs than switched to DM and have not looked back. We all have bad runs once in a while, but when this all comes together there is no system like it.

 

[Legallyflying]

WHat are your temps and are you running co2? They almost look like they are getting too much light or too much of something else. I say that as the leaves are curling down away from the light. I have seen the bumpy leaves happen when I am driving the plants to hard...like harder than there roots can support. The water level is an excellent question as well. I have seen water logged plants look like that as well.

So if you put a gun to my head I would say raise your lights a little and lower your water level.

 

[Legallyflying]

After seeing woodsmen's post that makes allot of sense as well.

Bottom line, your plants are drooping because of low turgor pressure. So your plants are currently able to transport enough water. This could be caused by excessive evapotranspiration. Either by being overly dry, too hot, or root issues that are inhibiting water uptake which could be a number of things... Disease, lack of oxygen, insufficient root mass, or (and I know little about this) excessive silica?? I only say that because I have read about silica covered roots.

If I were you, I would also switch nutes

 

[skankymonkey23]

@medmaneast - my floor is at a slight incline so the 4 netpots closest to the res are in the water. how far away from the net pot should the water be? Can I be in inch away without damaging the higher roots? should I top feed?(would have to be by hand)

I believe you are right about the PPM meter. I am using a HANNA meter on the 500 scale (using 1500 calibrating liquid). so maybe this is the problem and I am really running the plants too high.

The last few days a boosted my PH from 5.5 to 5.8 and brought my PPM down to 540. There has been no change in PPM but the PH has dropped to 5.7. It is amazing to me how stable the PH is considering i used to have it at 6.2 before going to sleep and would wake up to 4.5. talk about a nightmare... hopefully this is because I am running a sterile solution.

@woodsmaneh - my Dehu broke(just reminded me and I'm bringing it in right after this) so my humidity is between 50 and 80% depending on if the AC is on or not.

I am seriously considering switching to DM. Anyone else use Canna and then switch over to DM?

Legallyflying - my day temp is 80, night at 70 in veg. I don't have any CO2 running right now cause it is veg. Should i change that in a sealed room?

your second post offers interesting insight and I think you are on the right track. I kind of understand but might need a different explanation. During my last run, at week 5 my plants turned really dry. it was as if the room was to hot (wasn't) and they weren't able to receive water. I thought it was a magnesium deficiency but it turned into an "everything" deficiency.

Thank you all for looking at this thread and offering your insight. It really helps to talk to people about issues I am having and listen to new ideas.

 

[medmaneast]

Once roots come out of the pot water level should begin to drop almost to tease the roots so they chase the water. In the 8 gal mods 1-2 inches below the pot is normal...in the 13 gal mods 5-6 inches below pot...roots expel unneeded gases so the rots above the water and the air space make that possible.

As for the ph dropping, not good! ec/ppm levels are to high causing lock out...I would bring the ppms down to 250-300 if your meter runs on the 500 scale...which will actually be 400-450ppm.

I would switch off canna solely because of the cost but definetly not your problem just need a few minor tweeks.

Good luck buddy...Med

 

[crossouttheiis]

I still use canna on and off, I just like trying new things. It has always been stable and the other people I know that run UC just run the canna line with exceptional results. I have not switched or tried DM though. I guess whatever you can get to work for you.

 

[Legallyflying]

You shouldn't need to supplement co2 in a sealed room as they give it off at night. I have seen suggestions that you cut your water level in half during flower so I would say at least 2" below the net pot. You stick a couple boards or hell, even some cardboard under the lower pots and get rid of that uneven floor issue.

I had crispy leaves once as well. It was a humidity issue.

About the PH, typically PH only lowers when you have bad bacteria issues. You may consider hitting the whole system with some bleach, heavy h2o2 or physian. Or all three really.

Lower the water an level your plants and see of that helps first.

 

[desertsquirrel]

bleach and h202 are toxic to mix. do not use them all at the same time.

 

[sealed138]

You shouldn't need to supplement co2 in a sealed room as they give it off at night..

Sealed rooms can definitely benefit from co2 supplementation.
You must have all the other environmental elements dialed in, but then IMO co2 is where it's at. I've been running co2 in sealed rooms for 7 yrs.

 

[ZombieSlave]

I think im going to run high lvls of cal mag (sensical bloom) untill at least week 4/5.
Im in veg and my girls are super npk eaters.

 

[skankymonkey23]

Any idea what might be happening here? I flushed my system because I saw this deficiency (calcium perhaps?) and now have the nutes at 480 but I have no response from them(PPM and PH is stable with NO movement in either direction) and this deficiency seems like its spreading even after the flush.

 

[desertsquirrel]

looks like low RH to me.

 

[phup]

If you are not supplementing with CO2 and your room isn't that big, I'm curious what your ambient level of CO2 is in that room with lights on? There is decent amount of plant matter in there so they are going to eat that carbon fairly quickly. Anything below 300ppm CO2 will dramatically reduce growth and 200ppm will basically make it stop entirely.

The deficiency does look like calcium, but just adding Calmag isn't the solution. Calcium is very immobile, so you need to get those girls transporting water. (lets see a pic of the new growth, burned tips?) If you suspect Ca, Try running for 12 hours with just 1ml/gallon CalMag and 1g/gallon Epsom. This will help transport water and get them Ca to where it needs to go. Then SLOWLY add back your base nutes to bring your ppm back up over the nxt 2-3 days. Respond to your plants, if they eat some nutes overnight then bump the ppms another 50-75 with your base. Repeat.

+1 on humidity

 

[skankymonkey23]

Ok I have been seeing better results with the ladies. My PH is at 6.2 PPM at 510 staying constant with a 1120 PPM drip feed. The girls are growing nicely BUT they I am still seeing a little rusting on the older leaves. new growth looks healthy with a few rust spots near the tips as the leaves age. I don't have any nutrient burn on the tips.

 

[HydroRocks]

Just curious, why is your drip feed 1120PPM when your system is at 510PPM?

If that is correct and not a typo there is an issue here somewhere.

The older rusted leaves will not improve, check new growth for rust spots or better looking conditions. As long as new growth looks good and no tip burning then you should be ok. Let them recover and bounce back.

Glad to hear they are getting better, sounds like you are getting things back on track.

Cheers!

 

[skankymonkey23]

alright folks, I am still running into the same problems that have plagued me in the past. I am getting massive rust spots all over my leaves, and now my PH is dropping from 5.8 to 4.8 overnight. I have switched nutrients to dutch master, adjusted my water levels, kept my humidity in check... nothing is working. This is definitely going to be my last run in the UnderCurrent by I need a good crop out of it. right now I am at 650 PPM 6.0 PH and things are stable but the never leaves are rusting and the lower ones are basically rusted to death. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[growgrow]

flush the hell out of that system.... fill w/ ro, dm a b, add 27 at 1/4 strength or until 300 ppm. add zone or uc roots at 2 ml per gal and 2.5 ml per gal of 35% h202.... foliar feed w/ liquid light @ half strength every 2 days until you see buds forming.... it'll take a week to get em out of shock but should do the trick.. also what r the water temps @, get ur RH to 55-70, and what brand of ph up/down r u using..... mine was messing up from using advanced, i switched to mad farmer and works well.... ive gotten myself out of 2 different issues this way