More questions…. Fewer this time though

[Littleman]

ok so just a quick back story,i posted about the last plant i had In flower for some advice and came to the conclusion that he had re vegged due to a light leak and maybe some over done defo. This is what it looked like the co2 levels where at about 400 entire time. The temp was kind of in consistent until i got a controller towards the end then they where pretty on point. But never got over 95 if that or under 70. It was fed pbp grow and then pbp bloom.

That one didn’t amount to much as predicted m. The one I have in flower now is doing a bit better than that imo but I’ll let yall be the judge. This one is at 3 and half weeks into flower (the other was about 7-8 weeks at the time of photo) it’s 16in under a 1000w hps (the other one was under.m a 315cmh). Co2 levels a lot better since I got a controller, and totally sealed the room; along with the temps which have stayed at 75 all day and night. I know it’s supposed to be at least 10deg cooler at night but I haven’t had the time to figure what I did to the schedule it was on, and why it won’t go back to it I’m using the itc380 inkbird. got super busy with work, And with the amount of money I spent on basically a hobby at this point I gotta get the bread when it’s good. the first one was black Betty and this one I’m not quite sure. It was fed gh floranova grow and then pbp bloom with humboldts crystal burst
All through out flower( probably waste of money and may be causing more harm rhmm5 good but I was a desperate man tying anything!) just want t some advice in what would be causing some of the issues I’m having now, is it on a good pace/track, and what I can do to help it. Thanks

 

[Aqua Man]

16 inches with a 1000w hps is probably to close.

What media are younin?

Pots size?

Ppm and ph of nutrients?

Watering practices… how much and how often?

 

[Littleman]

DWC hydroton
Ppm is around 800-900 it’s been a min since I check it. But ph after nutrient added is 6.0

 

[Aqua Man]

DWC hydroton
Ppm is around 800-900 it’s been a min since I check it. But ph after nutrient added is 6.0

Id raise light to 24” min

Drop your ppm to 500-600

Ph down to 5.8 and let it drift up to 6.2

You want a PH drift of around 0.2 per day.

Read this in PH to help you understand how and if you have any questions on it just ask.

Marijuana pH Levels for Growing Weed: A Basic Explanation

OK I'm going to do my best to explain PH since its something that is for the most part greatly misunderstood and can be confusing to new growers and even experienced growers alike. This will explain why we need both ppm and PH meters to give us informed information about PH This will be a...

www.thcfarmer.com

 

[Littleman]

Id raise light to 24” min

Drop your ppm to 500-600

Ph down to 5.8 and let it drift up to 6.2

You want a PH drift of around 0.2 per day.

Read this in PH to help you understand how and if you have any questions on it just ask.

Marijuana pH Levels for Growing Weed: A Basic Explanation

OK I'm going to do my best to explain PH since its something that is for the most part greatly misunderstood and can be confusing to new growers and even experienced growers alike. This will explain why we need both ppm and PH meters to give us informed information about PH This will be a...

www.thcfarmer.com

Ok so I went a head and read through it a couple times, I kept getting interrupted with phone calls so it took me a bit to digest it all. First I wanna say, that is one hell of a informative piece there. I’ve done some reading on ph and that one covered more ground than any one that I could find. Second from what i gathered about from that as far what concerns my current situation is somewhere in here.

-In hydro the ideal ppm of carbonate/bicarbonate sources to provide an adequate buffer will be 50-100ppm with 75ppm being the target. Less than this and PH may swing to fast and be unstable, more and it will not drift enough and will require too much acid that could affect nutrient ratio's negatively depending on the acid used. By adding alkalinity and then acid we provide a more stable PH because adding more of either will have less impact on the overall ratio of acidic to basic elements-
I use tap water which is close 8.0 in ph. And about 250ppm. now I’ve Googleed the make up and couldn’t find a decent one that isn’t super confusing or misleading due to them trying to sell me something. I’ll do deeper dive tonight, but since I’m using the tap Im definitely using quite a bit of down which is not great from what I read, so Should I be using RO and if so should I be getting the RO water to 75ppm, then adding my nutrients and lastly checking my ph and adjusting accordingly after I’ve done all that an.
aaaaand lastly I think I should do a good flush before I do any of those things so I know i don’t have any leftover crap or build up of any sorts. And i on the right track yet?

 

[Aqua Man]

Ok so I went a head and read through it a couple times, I kept getting interrupted with phone calls so it took me a bit to digest it all. First I wanna say, that is one hell of a informative piece there. I’ve done some reading on ph and that one covered more ground than any one that I could find. Second from what i gathered about from that as far what concerns my current situation is somewhere in here.

-In hydro the ideal ppm of carbonate/bicarbonate sources to provide an adequate buffer will be 50-100ppm with 75ppm being the target. Less than this and PH may swing to fast and be unstable, more and it will not drift enough and will require too much acid that could affect nutrient ratio's negatively depending on the acid used. By adding alkalinity and then acid we provide a more stable PH because adding more of either will have less impact on the overall ratio of acidic to basic elements-
I use tap water which is close 8.0 in ph. And about 250ppm. now I’ve Googleed the make up and couldn’t find a decent one that isn’t super confusing or misleading due to them trying to sell me something. I’ll do deeper dive tonight, but since I’m using the tap Im definitely using quite a bit of down which is not great from what I read, so Should I be using RO and if so should I be getting the RO water to 75ppm, then adding my nutrients and lastly checking my ph and adjusting accordingly after I’ve done all that an.
aaaaand lastly I think I should do a good flush before I do any of those things so I know i don’t have any leftover crap or build up of any sorts. And i on the right track yet?

Yup your on the right track. If you copy paste or link your water report (suggest removing identifying information) i can interpret it for you if you like.

Even at 250ppm it may be usable but ideally we all start with RO. But by no means is that always needed

 

[Littleman]

Yup your on the right track. If you copy paste or link your water report (suggest removing identifying information) i can interpret it for you if you like.

Even at 250ppm it may be usable but ideally we all start with RO. But by no means is that always needed

I’ll try and get that report cause I definitely would like to have that info.
And I’m glad to hear it’s not a must cause those RO systems or a bit out of my price range at the moment. But in the mean time do you suggest I change any of my watering practices so far as how make my now. I know you said lower the ppm, but the way I do it now is add my nutes, check ph and ppm then adjust my ph, which is adding ph down 99% of the time.should I be doing it in a different order? And what if my ppms are higher than 600 after adding the suggested amount of nutes?

 

[Aqua Man]

Pretty cheap here bro. I ised the 4 stage but the 3 is absolutely fine and will give you about 10-30ppm starting water.

50 GPD 3-Stage RO Buddie Reverse Osmosis System

Description The AQUATICLIFE RO Buddie is a three-stage RO/DI unit designed for residential use to reduce the Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) in tap water. Each RO Buddie includes a Sediment, Carbon and cartridge. Useful applications include smaller aquariums, fountains, humidifiers and more. With...

aquaticlife.com

Can use half grow half bloom or even just grow if you like. Not sure id use the bloom by itself personally.

Add the recommended dose to a gal of water take the ppm reading and add just water to it until you reach about 600ppm if you were using RO the 500-600.

Then PH down using phosphoric acid to 5.6.

Recheck and adjust PH an hr later then test again in 24hr and let me know what the difference is

 

[Littleman]

Ok got it and I do all of that before adding to my res. Can it be the ph down from general hydro or does it have to phosphoric acid.

Definitely gonna get that thing this weekend I hadn’t done a good search online just shopped around at lowes definitely beats there’s that is priced out at like 2 bills! I appreciate that

 

[Aqua Man]

Ok got it and I do all of that before adding to my res. Can it be the ph down from general hydro or does it have to phosphoric acid.

Definitely gonna get that thing this weekend I hadn’t done a good search online just shopped around at lowes definitely beats there’s that is priced out at like 2 bills! I appreciate that

Yeah GH PH down is mostly phosphoric acid

 

[MacroLogos]

Ok so I went a head and read through it a couple times, I kept getting interrupted with phone calls so it took me a bit to digest it all. First I wanna say, that is one hell of a informative piece there. I’ve done some reading on ph and that one covered more ground than any one that I could find. Second from what i gathered about from that as far what concerns my current situation is somewhere in here.

-In hydro the ideal ppm of carbonate/bicarbonate sources to provide an adequate buffer will be 50-100ppm with 75ppm being the target. Less than this and PH may swing to fast and be unstable, more and it will not drift enough and will require too much acid that could affect nutrient ratio's negatively depending on the acid used. By adding alkalinity and then acid we provide a more stable PH because adding more of either will have less impact on the overall ratio of acidic to basic elements-
I use tap water which is close 8.0 in ph. And about 250ppm. now I’ve Googleed the make up and couldn’t find a decent one that isn’t super confusing or misleading due to them trying to sell me something. I’ll do deeper dive tonight, but since I’m using the tap Im definitely using quite a bit of down which is not great from what I read, so Should I be using RO and if so should I be getting the RO water to 75ppm, then adding my nutrients and lastly checking my ph and adjusting accordingly after I’ve done all that an.
aaaaand lastly I think I should do a good flush before I do any of those things so I know i don’t have any leftover crap or build up of any sorts. And i on the right track yet?

When/if we use tap water, we will let it sit for 24 hours in 5g buckets to allow the chlorine to evaporate out of the water and, only then, do we start creating any solutions with it.

We almost always use RO water, and if you're going to invest time & energy into the more advanced chemestry, you should as well so you can strictly manage ppm in the solution.

 

[Aqua Man]

When/if we use tap water, we will let it sit for 24 hours in 5g buckets to allow the chlorine to evaporate out of the water and, only then, do we start creating any solutions with it.

We almost always use RO water, and if you're going to invest time & energy into the more advanced chemestry, you should as well so you can strictly manage ppm in the solution.

While i agree mist water supplies are chloramine now and that wont off gas like chlorine and even aerated will last weeks. Of your worried about it then 1 gram of ascorbic acid will neutralize 1ppm of either chlorine or chloramine in 100 gallons of water.

Most municipalities are around 1ppm of either and the max allowed in drinking water is 4ppm by then it will reek of chlorine.

Ino bothing to worry about unless you uare using it to brew teas and even then its just a better practice to remove them

 

[MacroLogos]

While i agree mist water supplies are chloramine now and that wont off gas like chlorine and even aerated will last weeks. Of your worried about it then 1 gram of ascorbic acid will neutralize 1ppm of either chlorine or chloramine in 100 gallons of water.

Most municipalities are around 1ppm of either and the max allowed in drinking water is 4ppm by then it will reek of chlorine.

Ino bothing to worry about unless you uare using it to brew teas and even then its just a better practice to remove them

What are the byproducts and other reactions of mixing ascorbic acid with chlorine or chloramine? General Hydro pH Down is using phospheric acid... how do those 2 acids react with one another?

Can phosphric acid be replaced with ascorbic acid - not sure if a lb. of crystal C is cheeper than a bottle of GH pH Down, but if so and ascorbic acid isn't going to cause adverse reactions with other elements, I'd see no reason not to switch...

And for raising pH, can simple baking soda be used as a substitute for GH pH up?

 

[Aqua Man]

What are the byproducts and other reactions of mixing ascorbic acid with chlorine or chloramine? General Hydro pH Down is using phospheric acid... how do those 2 acids react with one another?

Can phosphric acid be replaced with ascorbic acid - not sure if a lb. of crystal C is cheeper than a bottle of GH pH Down, but if so and ascorbic acid isn't going to cause adverse reactions with other elements, I'd see no reason not to switch...

And for raising pH, can simple baking soda be used as a substitute for GH pH up?

No they cannot be interchanged and you dont want to use baking soda.

Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate and while sodium is a micro nutrient in thw anounts used it can be toxic.

A cheap alternative to PH up is actually blwhat GH i think uses to make theirs…. Potassium bicarbonate or you can use potassium silicate.

Do not use citric acid as a PH down either. Just search for food grade phosphoric acid its cheap and the higher the concentration the better and less you will need ti adjust ph

 

[MacroLogos]

No they cannot be interchanged and you dont want to use baking soda.

Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate and while sodium is a micro nutrient in thw anounts used it can be toxic.

A cheap alternative to PH up is actually blwhat GH i think uses to make theirs…. Potassium bicarbonate or you can use potassium silicate.

Do not use citric acid as a PH down either. Just search for food grade phosphoric acid its cheap and the higher the concentration the better and less you will need ti adjust ph

Awesome. I was kind of thinking ascorbic acid (aka Vitamin C aka citrus acid) would be more expensive than bulk food grade phosphoric acid (and it's a bit weaker acid).


"This base solution is formulated using potassium hydroxide and potassium carbonate..." -- General Hydro's pH up product page (I'd have pasted the link, but the app is glitching... no 'paste' option).

Anyways, thanks for the responses and insights into pH management.

 

[Aqua Man]

Awesome. I was kind of thinking ascorbic acid (aka Vitamin C aka citrus acid) would be more expensive than bulk food grade phosphoric acid (and it's a bit weaker acid).


"This base solution is formulated using potassium hydroxide and potassium carbonate..." -- General Hydro's pH up product page (I'd have pasted the link, but the app is glitching... no 'paste' option).

Anyways, thanks for the responses and insights into pH management.

No problem… yeah they use a combination of now I remember

 

[Littleman]

No problem… yeah they use a combination of now I remember

Man it’s been a minute but between being, work, all shit that needs to be done around the house, and having our first kid, and then throwing in this hobby I’ve picked up it’s hard to find the time to reply.
That doesn’t mean I don’t listen to advice, I finished that grow out using tap, but doing things you suggested aqua man, along with calibrating my ph meter before every use. And did notice quite a difference and that ended up being my first harvest that produced quality buds that looked smelled and tasted like the stuff I’m used to getting not better. I appreciate all the help it wouldn’t have ended up like that without all the input.

I’m in the middle of vegging my current grow with 3 that are in dwc this time running RO water with the kit from the link you sent me and idk how my plants survived with tap water. It’s a HUGE difference and I’ll never go back to tap. It’s so much easier adjusting ph if I even have to do it. But this three individual dwc is hell to check the pppm and ph, and to top off, it’s just a pain in the ass.
So naturally I’m thinking of rdwc, Just a 4 site One using 4 10 gallon totes that are about 20 inch deep. I can get 5 gallons of water and have pretty good air gap still. I just thought that I would like to grow a little bit taller it gives me just over 1 foot of vertical space, holds more water than the other buckets I was using, and I feel like there is more room for the roots. So that’s 20 gallons of water 25 w the main rez. I should’ve need to strong of pump I hope, and I was gonna run it 1inch plumbing, flowing like this. The return growing back throw the middle. Sorry for the chicken scratch.

Would this work? Would I run all the air stones in the main rez? How much concern should I show about water temp the room stays at about 75. Any thing I need to think about or watch out for. I’m sure I’m missing some stuff but I hope this is enough info. Should I have started a new thread?? My bad. Any helpful input welcome thanks again.