My next grow...Whats your thoughts?

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Flowerpower420

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Hi people after a few chopping and changing around ideas and trying to strike a balance between cost and production i think ive settled on an idea.

First off a brief description of my setup.

5ftx5ft grow tent,
645w LED Gavita 1700E (1000w HPS Equivalent)
4ftx4ft drip tray,
Manual watering,
2x scrog nets 3.5x3.5" holes,
9 plants,
12.5L Airpots.
70/30 Coco coir with small layer of clay balls at bottom of pots,
Mills nutrients,
And as for beans, well im going to try a fresh pack of super kush with a yeild of UPTO 600g per square metre.

Now my previous grows where 4 plants in 11L standard square pots in 70/30 coco with a 4-6week veg and didnt notice much difference between the extra 2 weeks.

Average yeild was around 3oz per plant.

Has anyone got any thoughts on how long i should veg 9 plants in 12.5L airpots in a 25sqft Or 2.3m2 space.

My plan is to get them to root out in small cups then plant them into the final 12.5L pots, carry on vegging untill pots have been fully rooted and then install the first scrog net.

My reason for this is because if i start weaving the plants in the early stages i can imagine its going to be a nightmare to "pot up" into final pots when 9 plants are woven tightly into the nets so i think im going to have to root out the final pots before i apply the nets. (Any advice on this would be great)

So how long would you guys "veg" for?

My expectations are, im looking to pull atleast 2lbs. Maybe a little ambitious i know but there are people out there using this light thats pulling 52oz with ease. Now i know that theres alot more to consider and variables comparing to other peoples grows but all things considered i would like to think i could aim for the 32oz mark as the seeds have the potential to produce...600g per m2,

5x5 or 2.3m2....
600g x 2.3 = 1380g
1380÷28g = 49.2oz

If everything goes to plan and plants are super healthy and environment is spot on.

With 12.5L airpots being a decent size for root development and a good feeding regime how long would you guys recommend to veg my 9 girls for?

I think in my last runs i maybe kept my girls on the small/short side which probably is the biggest factor in the lower yeild as the plants where on the small side. But i went off general guidelines of between 4-6 weeks then flip.

I will also be topping my girls atleast twice and lollipopping below the bottom net and i will also be defoliating around day 21 of flower to maximise light penetration to developing bud sites.

Any advice or opinions on this grow will be greatly appreciated foks.

Peace out ✌️
 
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BigCube

BigCube

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263
My first suggestion would be more light. I'm willing to bet if you've used that setup already, you were a little disappointed with your yield.

Standard formula for led lighting is 30 to 35 watts per square foot.
5x5=25x35=875 means your over 200 watts short of the standard minimum. You may notice less dense flowers and dramatic lack of growth especially in the corners and edges.

Putting an additional 200w in the tent will definitely help. With 1 fixture in the center, you will most likely use led bars. Try to put them in the corners and edges to even the light canopy out.

Any yield numbers you get from the breeder will be unobtainable without sufficient light and nutrients. Take them as a guideline only. Definitely not as a goal, you will only be disappointed.

Most I have ever seen or achieved without CO2 is 1.5 to 1.7g per watt of led light. Meaning with the light you have, 900 to 1000g is the most you can hope for. And unless you address the lack of light that product you do get will be fluffier than what we expect from bud.

Hope this helps man, good luck 👍
 
F

Flowerpower420

95
33
My first suggestion would be more light. I'm willing to bet if you've used that setup already, you were a little disappointed with your yield.

Standard formula for led lighting is 30 to 35 watts per square foot.
5x5=25x35=875 means your over 200 watts short of the standard minimum. You may notice less dense flowers and dramatic lack of growth especially in the corners and edges.

Putting an additional 200w in the tent will definitely help. With 1 fixture in the center, you will most likely use led bars. Try to put them in the corners and edges to even the light canopy out.

Any yield numbers you get from the breeder will be unobtainable without sufficient light and nutrients. Take them as a guideline only. Definitely not as a goal, you will only be disappointed.

Most I have ever seen or achieved without CO2 is 1.5 to 1.7g per watt of led light. Meaning with the light you have, 900 to 1000g is the most you can hope for. And unless you address the lack of light that product you do get will be fluffier than what we expect from bud.

Hope this helps man, good luck 👍
Hey mate thanks for your reply, tbh i was thinking that. For a 5x5 space all i have to offer is only 645w! Which compared to some other grow tents is as much as half the power!!!

I was thinking of getring some of these and putting one in every corner on the tent poles and with the extra 180w plus the far red light to boost flower...what you think?
 
BigCube

BigCube

2,676
263
Hey mate thanks for your reply, tbh i was thinking that. For a 5x5 space all i have to offer is only 645w! Which compared to some other grow tents is as much as half the power!!!

I was thinking of getring some of these and putting one in every corner on the tent poles and with the extra 180w plus the far red light to boost flower...what you think?
That should put her right. I use similar light to fill in my main fixture.
20210709 074708
 
Madmax

Madmax

5,928
313
My first suggestion would be more light. I'm willing to bet if you've used that setup already, you were a little disappointed with your yield.

Standard formula for led lighting is 30 to 35 watts per square foot.
5x5=25x35=875 means your over 200 watts short of the standard minimum. You may notice less dense flowers and dramatic lack of growth especially in the corners and edges.

Putting an additional 200w in the tent will definitely help. With 1 fixture in the center, you will most likely use led bars. Try to put them in the corners and edges to even the light canopy out.

Any yield numbers you get from the breeder will be unobtainable without sufficient light and nutrients. Take them as a guideline only. Definitely not as a goal, you will only be disappointed.

Most I have ever seen or achieved without CO2 is 1.5 to 1.7g per watt of led light. Meaning with the light you have, 900 to 1000g is the most you can hope for. And unless you address the lack of light that product you do get will be fluffier than what we expect from bud.

Hope this helps man, good luck 👍
Nonsense mate .im in a 5x5 using 5x4 area and consistently yielding 2p ea grow using 600 watt led vegging 6 plants 5 weeks..the gavita is perfect for that space..
 
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Flowerpower420

95
33
Nonsense mate .im in a 5x5 using 5x4 rea and consistently yielding 2p ea grow using 600 watt led vegging 6 plants 5 weeks..the gavita is perfet for that space..
I was told by my hydro store that the gavita has a coverage area for a 4x4 OR 5x5 but tbh im not seeing the results that i probably should be using the gavita and for what i paid for the light im quite disappointed. Maybe theres other issues in the tent which could be contributing to the low yeild. Ive been toying with adding extra light but im confused as im sill within range as of gavitas recommendations. 🤔
 
BigCube

BigCube

2,676
263
Nonsense mate .im in a 5x5 using 5x4 area and consistently yielding 2p ea grow using 600 watt led vegging 6 plants 5 weeks..the gavita is perfect for that space..

I'd like to see that. I've browsed over your threads and couldn't find one where you show a fully ripe plant in the tent. I'm sure they exist but I'm sure they would be much better with an extra 200w.

As the guy above said, its lacking what you'd expect.
 
Madmax

Madmax

5,928
313
Whatever you think mate 👍 i go 11 weeks with 7-9 week strains .

Yes thats correct what you have been told 4x4 or 5x5 .i have a mate getting over 3 a light in a 4x4 so 2lb is easily obtainable..

Maybe your enviroment isnt quite dialed n bud..these guys can help you as they are running this light @Anthem @saddlesores
 
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Flowerpower420

95
33
Whatever you think mate 👍 i go 11 weeks with 7-9 week strains .

Yes thats correct what you have been told 4x4 or 5x5 .i have a mate getting over 3 a light in a 4x4 so 2lb is easily obtainable..

Maybe your enviroment isnt quite dialed n bud..these guys can help you as they are running this light @Anthem @saddlesores
Awesome mate thank you very much for your input and advice 👍
 
BigCube

BigCube

2,676
263
Your led fixture isnt any different from most others. We are all running lm301h or b with red/or. 35w/sq ft has been the rule for led for years. Nothing new in your fixture.

I have a few 240w fixtures that say 2x2 or 3x3. But in a 3x3 it sucks and I need to supplement 100w.

Manufacturers will literally tell you anything.
 
BigCube

BigCube

2,676
263
I was told by my hydro store that the gavita has a coverage area for a 4x4 OR 5x5 but tbh im not seeing the results that i probably should be using the gavita and for what i paid for the light im quite disappointed. Maybe theres other issues in the tent which could be contributing to the low yeild. Ive been toying with adding extra light but im confused as im sill within range as of gavitas recommendations. 🤔
Gravitas is in the buisness of selling grow lights. You can use it in a 5x5 but, your results wont be as good.
 
BigCube

BigCube

2,676
263
Browsing their website, gavita doesnt actually mention tent size anywhere. The only place I see gavita and tent size mentioned is 3rd party companies selling kits. So obviously they are invested in making you pay more for less. That's how they make their money.

Pulling up testing with a par meter of an actual gavita 1700e ina tent I found this.

PPFDgavita 1024x6392


As you can see even at 18 inches from the canopy, even in a 4x4 the last foot drops well below 1000.
You are aiming for 1000 even across the entire footprint.

In a 4x4 the light doesnt fall off too much but remember the 4x4 has the benefit for reflective walls right beside it. In a 5x5 the numbers will be close to half on all extremities. Both by the nature of the light not being enough for the environment and too far away to reflect much back in to the growspace.

Dont take my word for it. Do some research and above all, dont listen to the kit builders or the people that paid twice as much for a light than they should have. They are invested in the product and will literally tell you anything.

If your still unsure, do a run with it by itself, then try one with 200w more.
I'm sure we all know what one will turn out better 👍
 
BigCube

BigCube

2,676
263
Now that I'm home and have more time I can address your other questions 🤣

That is exactly what I and most people do. Repot before you scrog. In fact I don't put the net in for about a week after reporting to larger pots. As you did imagine, repotting after it has been scrogging is a nightmare. But can be done before flower.

What I do is start my clones/seedlings in solo cups. Then when the roots start comming out the bottom holes I make, I repot them in to their 3gal pots that I flower them in. Then I dont put the net I untill the plants are 4 to 6 inches above the room I leave for watering.

Obviously you cant put the net all the way down to the pots cause you need room to water. In my 3x3 the net is 8 to 10 inches above the pots. This may change for your watering needs.

So once the plant is say 14 inches above the pots I put the net in at 10 inches above the pot, and weave in the 4 inches of the tops of the plant.

Depending on how long you are willing to wait vrs how many plants you are willing to grow at one time. Veg could be week to a month.

If you're going with a SOG scrog method (scrog but also with many plants) then your veg time could be as low as 1 week after the net is in. If you do what I do and scrog 1 plant out in to a 3x3, it takes over a month.

Whatever you choose, you veg until the net is filled. Try to keep it all the same level under the net. Then when the net is full, flip to flower. The plants will double in size all above the net. 2 or 3 weeks in to flower, do yourself a favor and literally strip anything that is not a branch supporting a bud above the net. This will give you good airflow and help prevent mould and bud rott. Also anything below the net gets such little light it is popcorn and not worth the plants energy to produce when it could put that energy into your nice buds 👍

Then you basically just watch for it to be ready. Depending on your nutrient regiment, you may need to add another net to stop the dongs from falling over.
 
F

Flowerpower420

95
33
Now that I'm home and have more time I can address your other questions 🤣

That is exactly what I and most people do. Repot before you scrog. In fact I don't put the net in for about a week after reporting to larger pots. As you did imagine, repotting after it has been scrogging is a nightmare. But can be done before flower.

What I do is start my clones/seedlings in solo cups. Then when the roots start comming out the bottom holes I make, I repot them in to their 3gal pots that I flower them in. Then I dont put the net I untill the plants are 4 to 6 inches above the room I leave for watering.

Obviously you cant put the net all the way down to the pots cause you need room to water. In my 3x3 the net is 8 to 10 inches above the pots. This may change for your watering needs.

So once the plant is say 14 inches above the pots I put the net in at 10 inches above the pot, and weave in the 4 inches of the tops of the plant.

Depending on how long you are willing to wait vrs how many plants you are willing to grow at one time. Veg could be week to a month.

If you're going with a SOG scrog method (scrog but also with many plants) then your veg time could be as low as 1 week after the net is in. If you do what I do and scrog 1 plant out in to a 3x3, it takes over a month.

Whatever you choose, you veg until the net is filled. Try to keep it all the same level under the net. Then when the net is full, flip to flower. The plants will double in size all above the net. 2 or 3 weeks in to flower, do yourself a favor and literally strip anything that is not a branch supporting a bud above the net. This will give you good airflow and help prevent mould and bud rott. Also anything below the net gets such little light it is popcorn and not worth the plants energy to produce when it could put that energy into your nice buds 👍

Then you basically just watch for it to be ready. Depending on your nutrient regiment, you may need to add another net to stop the dongs from falling over.
Hey man thanks so much for spending the time and posting such a detailed description for me! Yeah thats what i would like and im aiming for, wether or not it works out that good is another story as its my first time "scrogging" so like everything it normally takes a few mistakes to get in nailed! I will keep you posted throughout the grow, Cheers mate 👍
 
F

Flowerpower420

95
33
Whatever you think mate 👍 i go 11 weeks with 7-9 week strains .

Yes thats correct what you have been told 4x4 or 5x5 .i have a mate getting over 3 a light in a 4x4 so 2lb is easily obtainable..

Maybe your enviroment isnt quite dialed n bud..these guys can help you as they are running this light @Anthem @saddlesores
Cheers for the info mate 👍,

Best ive gotten is 14oz from 2 plants in 18L pots in 70/30....7oz each,

And

12.5oz from 4 plants in 11L pots 70/30 around 3oz each.

My strain was mimosa evo x orange punch (supposed to be a heavy yeilder) And i was pretty impressed with nug density and crystal, the total overall yeild suffered compared to some grow diaries. My RH was 78% in veg with temps of 85-80 and week 3 of flower i kept temps the same but dropped my RH to 50-55% until the last 2 weeks when i dropped it further to around 40-45% right before harvest. I feel my climate is pretty controlled and consistent.
Plants seem healthy etc, and i also ran clones so all where of the same pheno and genetics. I honestly dont know why im getting such poor results 😕 so i feel if im going to be averaging 3oz per plant then i need to put in more plants to be hitting the 2lb mark. Seems logical to me but im learning as im going and things that seem to make sense dosnt really apply through several factors. Im stumped lol 😆
 
BigCube

BigCube

2,676
263
Cheers for the info mate 👍,

Best ive gotten is 14oz from 2 plants in 18L pots in 70/30....7oz each,

And

12.5oz from 4 plants in 11L pots 70/30 around 3oz each.

My strain was mimosa evo x orange punch (supposed to be a heavy yeilder) And i was pretty impressed with nug density and crystal, the total overall yeild suffered compared to some grow diaries. My RH was 78% in veg with temps of 85-80 and week 3 of flower i kept temps the same but dropped my RH to 50-55% until the last 2 weeks when i dropped it further to around 40-45% right before harvest. I feel my climate is pretty controlled and consistent.
Plants seem healthy etc, and i also ran clones so all where of the same pheno and genetics. I honestly dont know why im getting such poor results 😕 so i feel if im going to be averaging 3oz per plant then i need to put in more plants to be hitting the 2lb mark. Seems logical to me but im learning as im going and things that seem to make sense dosnt really apply through several factors. Im stumped lol 😆

You can easily hit 2lb in there after you get her dialed in. I get 1lb out of a 3x3 on 400w ([email protected] [email protected] [email protected]/ir) regularly.

You have over twice the room. (9sf vrs 25sf) mind if I ask what your total yield was last grow?
 
F

Flowerpower420

95
33
You can easily hit 2lb in there after you get her dialed in. I get 1lb out of a 3x3 on 400w ([email protected] [email protected] [email protected]/ir) regularly.

You have over twice the room. (9sf vrs 25sf) mind if I ask what your total yield was last grow?
Yeah mate my last grow was 4 cloned plants, in 11L standard square pots, in 70/30, vegged for 5 weeks and total yeild was 12.5oz.

Nugs where absolutely amazing but really small golfball sized and nothing with the wow factor i was basically promised when investing into the gavita.

Tbh the grow previous to that was way better as i had 2 plants that yeilded 7oz each for a total of 14oz dried.

But still nowhere near the weight i should be pulling....

On all of my grows ive applied,
Topping 2x
LST
Defoliation on day 21 of flower.

Hope this helps 😁👍
 
F

Flowerpower420

95
33
Im definitely using SCROG this time with 2x nets, and with all other factors discussed staying the same,

Which would probably yeild more?...

5x plants in 20L airpots

OR

9x plants in 11L airpots?

Tbh im trying my hardest and spending all my free time researching and watching youtube vids but my grows just wont replicate what i read and watch.
 
BigCube

BigCube

2,676
263
Yeah that's about 400g. You should get at least 1g per w unless somethings wrong. 1.2 is average for a home grower on led who doesnt push their plants.

It may be worth looking into a light meter. You dont have to use super expensive par meters. Any lux/lumen meter will do. Place the meter 18" below the light (reccomended flower distance) right under the middle of the fixture and measure the lux/lumens. Then measure the rest of the tent in comparison. Obviously with the dimmer turned up full 🤣

Then seek to build something like I did.
20220725 061510


That is 2 aluminum u channel lengths bolted in the sides of a 240w kingbrite 3k fixture. I also pre drilled holes for 4 aluminum rods that hang the 4x25w supplemental 4k led tubes and also holes to bolt on the 2x30w kingbrite 550nm + ir. I can also use it to hang my supplemental uvb bulbs should I use them.

Try to build something or even just hang them and raise or lower them individually. The benefit of building something like this is, raising and lowering multiple lights is easy and it helps me cover my entire footprint.

Perhaps next grow you should keep a diary here? So we can help fix anything happening before it's too late?
 
BigCube

BigCube

2,676
263
Im definitely using SCROG this time with 2x nets, and with all other factors discussed staying the same,

Which would probably yeild more?...

5x plants in 20L airpots

OR

9x plants in 11L airpots?

Tbh im trying my hardest and spending all my free time researching and watching youtube vids but my grows just wont replicate what i read and watch.

I would go with less plants just for ease of watering. I'm not in a hurry so a couple more weeks isnt going to hurt. They yield would be the same ether way if grown properly. One would just be faster than the other.

With scrog, once the net is full the timer is set. The only benefit to more plants is less time in veg filling the net. The disadvantage is hand watering several pots every 2 days or even every day in some cases.
 
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