My RDWC thoughts. Lets talk about overflows.

[steamroller]

First off, I have never run any hydro system.
I think I understand the basics of RWDC.
All the systems and set ups I see have the reservoir/ sump running level with the buckets.
I assume this is because if the res was lower the buckets water level would be lower also?
So, when the whole system uses or lose water it is spread out throughout the whole system?
Roots become exposed and then covered again when the system is re filled.
Wouldn't this be problematic/detrimental or possibly beneficial?
I guess everyone just rolls with it?

I don't see one system that controls the amount of water or the water level of the bucket independent of the res. without using gate valves [ this IS problematic, and flow should always be controlled after the pump and not on the returns].
Has no one figured a solution to this yet?
The solution is simple and adds massive amounts of gas exchange.
My experience in aquaria says nothing beats surface extraction for gas exchange.
All you need is to install a pipe to the bulkhead and set it for level you desire water.
Bulkhead could be on bottom or on side using a 90.
Surface extraction encourages the most exchange.
This picture shows examples of simple overflows using side mounted bulkheads with 90s.

The picture is from; https://tos.org/oceanography/articl...-for-manipulating-dissolved-oxygen-in-the-lab

Just wondering what the hydro guys think of this?

 

[Moe.Red]

First off, I have never run any hydro system.
I think I understand the basics of RWDC.
All the systems and set ups I see have the reservoir/ sump running level with the buckets.
I assume this is because if the res was lower the buckets water level would be lower also?
So, when the whole system uses or lose water it is spread out throughout the whole system?
Roots become exposed and then covered again when the system is re filled.
Wouldn't this be problematic/detrimental or possibly beneficial?
I guess everyone just rolls with it?

I don't see one system that controls the amount of water or the water level of the bucket independent of the res. without using gate valves [ this IS problematic, and flow should always be controlled after the pump and not on the returns].
Has no one figured a solution to this yet?
The solution is simple and adds massive amounts of gas exchange.
My experience in aquaria says nothing beats surface extraction for gas exchange.
All you need is to install a pipe to the bulkhead and set it for level you desire water.
Bulkhead could be on bottom or on side using a 90.
Surface extraction encourages the most exchange.
This picture shows examples of simple overflows using side mounted bulkheads with 90s.

The picture is from; https://tos.org/oceanography/articl...-for-manipulating-dissolved-oxygen-in-the-lab

Just wondering what the hydro guys think of this?

Yeah buddy more than one way to approach for sure. I’m a fishy guy too in the past so I know precisely what you are talking about.

Here are my learned design constraints

Plant sites need to be on the floor to maximize vertical space.

System must be gravity fed and in the case of power outage roots must remain wet and no spills.

Return to res must be passive or roots will clog it.

The easiest way I have found to do this is to put the res on the floor too, use a pump to push water to the plant sites with gravity return, and top off the res continuously via a float valve.

Other ways for sure will work.

You might as well dive in and build you a nice system! I’m in for that ride. Love to see what the plumbing master comes up with.

 

[IamN2pot]

First off, I have never run any hydro system.
I think I understand the basics of RWDC.
All the systems and set ups I see have the reservoir/ sump running level with the buckets.
I assume this is because if the res was lower the buckets water level would be lower also?
So, when the whole system uses or lose water it is spread out throughout the whole system?
Roots become exposed and then covered again when the system is re filled.
Wouldn't this be problematic/detrimental or possibly beneficial?
I guess everyone just rolls with it?

I don't see one system that controls the amount of water or the water level of the bucket independent of the res. without using gate valves [ this IS problematic, and flow should always be controlled after the pump and not on the returns].
Has no one figured a solution to this yet?
The solution is simple and adds massive amounts of gas exchange.
My experience in aquaria says nothing beats surface extraction for gas exchange.
All you need is to install a pipe to the bulkhead and set it for level you desire water.
Bulkhead could be on bottom or on side using a 90.
Surface extraction encourages the most exchange.
This picture shows examples of simple overflows using side mounted bulkheads with 90s.

The picture is from; https://tos.org/oceanography/articl...-for-manipulating-dissolved-oxygen-in-the-lab

Just wondering what the hydro guys think of this?

I was thinking along those same line, I just called it a 'spillway' for a lack of aquarium term. Not because of using differant water levels, but because I am using small 1" returns. I was thinking of it as a way to prevent root clogs. It's all new to me as well, so I'll be following along if you do a build. Moe is exactly what I needed to get off on the right foot!

 

[steamroller]

I have no clue about the Arduino control used in the link, but other than that I am leaning this way. I am not sure growers would ever try to limit O2?
I originally liked @Cool_Beans Rubbermaid build , but see the overflow in center over roots to be an issue.
So I am thinking a rectangular pot/bucket like many use with drain on one end and plant and supply on other.

Maybe these or something close if larger is better; https://www.bootstrapfarmer.com/products/dutch-bucket

Anyone use Dutch buckets? They seem easy/ cheap to modify.


The overflow pipes will keep the roots from ever being dry as the water level set by pipe height never changes.
Water has to overflow into pipe to leave pot/bucket. This way all volume changes are in the res only like aquarium sumps. Buckets can be drained by pulling the overflow tube if bulkhead is on/near bottom.
The real beauty is the pipe does not need to be glued in my experiences using this type of overflow and can be removed with a pull and the bulkhead level has full effect again. This of course would require the res/sump to be level with pots.
To have the overflow work properly you need some pitch/drop from buckets to res. for gravity to work as Moe mentioned. Maybe no more than an inch above the res top to allow free flow..
@IamN2pot a spillway would boost O2 even more if used as the return into res. like a waterfall type effect. This can only be achieved with the buckets being above the res.
Simply let return water spill into the res. above the 'full' waterline like an aquarium sump.
Also part of my 'plan'.

 

[smokedareefer]

Store bought current culture 4 site in my flower room that was purchased in 2019 and in the veg room a 4 site current culture store bought setup that i purchased in 2012.

My terminology differs. The "epi" center is where ill add my nutes yellow X, the red arrow is the line from a external 75 gal reservoir that feeds the epi center via float valve so water level is always constant. Danner 500 gph pump on the floor circulating the water through the chiller and dumps the water via water fall back into the epicenter

Edit: maybe time to upgrade?

 

[Cool_Beans]

I have no clue about the Arduino control used in the link, but other than that I am leaning this way. I am not sure growers would ever try to limit O2?
I originally liked @Cool_Beans Rubbermaid build , but see the overflow in center over roots to be an issue.
So I am thinking a rectangular pot/bucket like many use with drain on one end and plant and supply on other.

Maybe these or something close if larger is better; https://www.bootstrapfarmer.com/products/dutch-bucket

Anyone use Dutch buckets? They seem easy/ cheap to modify.


The overflow pipes will keep the roots from ever being dry as the water level set by pipe height never changes.
Water has to overflow into pipe to leave pot/bucket. This way all volume changes are in the res only like aquarium sumps. Buckets can be drained by pulling the overflow tube if bulkhead is on/near bottom.
The real beauty is the pipe does not need to be glued in my experiences using this type of overflow and can be removed with a pull and the bulkhead level has full effect again. This of course would require the res/sump to be level with pots.
To have the overflow work properly you need some pitch/drop from buckets to res. for gravity to work as Moe mentioned. Maybe no more than an inch above the res top to allow free flow..
@IamN2pot a spillway would boost O2 even more if used as the return into res. like a waterfall type effect. This can only be achieved with the buckets being above the res.
Simply let return water spill into the res. above the 'full' waterline like an aquarium sump.
Also part of my 'plan'.

Not to worry my man. If the roots get too close to the drain I'm just gonna leave my old rusty root pruning knife sitting in there and see if they get the message.

 

[steamroller]

Not to worry my man. If the roots get too close to the drain I'm just gonna leave my old rusty root pruning knife sitting in there and see if they get the message.

I don't see a problem with your system. Not the way you are using it.
But if I installed a overflow pipe it would be directly under plant at the surface. That would not work.
I am pretty focused on the overflow in every bucket.
I saw a system that had the overflow in the res for return but that needs topping off often IMO or the float valve.
Also only gives you one overflow for whole system where my idea is an overflow for each plant.

@Moe.Red and @smokedareefer I had not thought about float valves and a second res.
Makes sense to me now.
One could be used in my set up also I guess..
I am just getting up to speed with RWDC set ups.

 

[smokedareefer]

Not to worry my man. If the roots get too close to the drain I'm just gonna leave my old rusty root pruning knife sitting in there and see if they get the message.

I don't see a problem with your system. Not the way you are using it.
But if I installed a overflow pipe it would be directly under plant at the surface. That would not work.
I am pretty focused on the overflow in every bucket.
I saw a system that had the overflow in the res for return but that needs topping off often IMO or the float valve.
Also only gives you one overflow for whole system where my idea is an overflow for each plant.

@Moe.Red and @smokedareefer I had not thought about float valves and a second res.
Makes sense to me now.
One could be used in my set up also I guess..
I am just getting up to speed with RWDC set ups.

RDWC

Recirculating deep water culture

 

[Aqua Man]

First off, I have never run any hydro system.
I think I understand the basics of RWDC.
All the systems and set ups I see have the reservoir/ sump running level with the buckets.
I assume this is because if the res was lower the buckets water level would be lower also?
So, when the whole system uses or lose water it is spread out throughout the whole system?
Roots become exposed and then covered again when the system is re filled.
Wouldn't this be problematic/detrimental or possibly beneficial?
I guess everyone just rolls with it?

I don't see one system that controls the amount of water or the water level of the bucket independent of the res. without using gate valves [ this IS problematic, and flow should always be controlled after the pump and not on the returns].
Has no one figured a solution to this yet?
The solution is simple and adds massive amounts of gas exchange.
My experience in aquaria says nothing beats surface extraction for gas exchange.
All you need is to install a pipe to the bulkhead and set it for level you desire water.
Bulkhead could be on bottom or on side using a 90.
Surface extraction encourages the most exchange.
This picture shows examples of simple overflows using side mounted bulkheads with 90s.

The picture is from; https://tos.org/oceanography/articl...-for-manipulating-dissolved-oxygen-in-the-lab

Just wondering what the hydro guys think of this?

Overflow with a sump is killer in the fish world… that or refugium. I have used both.

They work good to skim the surface and prevent biofilm from interfering with gas exchange. A trickle filer is even better imo because of its abilities to act as further housing for bacteria and aerate unbelievably.

But in these systems we pump in so much air that the surface agitation is so much so that these biofilms are not a hindrance and just like a sump the epi or rez act like a sump providing more water which means more stability and a big reason a sump tank is sooo beneficial to fishkeeping . That and its ability to handle bioloads.

if you look at @Moe.Red system he also takes advantage of biomedia like we do in a sump.

in short i just dont feel its needed as the issues are already addressed it would provide little benefit if any unless trying to do organic and then id say a good sized trickle filter combined with a sump would be great

 

[Moe.Red]

This might help.

 

[steamroller]

RDWC

Recirculating deep water culture

Too late to edit title even!
We are all stoners here!

 

[Aqua Man]

Too late to edit title even!
We are all stoners here!

Fixed

 

[steamroller]

Dyslexia is a terrible thing.
Especially when it is caused by pot!
Thanks man!