Name that deficiency!

[BCrocker]

I'm running Massive and Green Planet Finisher. Seems to be working well but I'm running them in conjunction with Cutting Edge 3 part. I'm pretty happy with it. Maybe its the mix of GH with the GP. BUT: when people have weird phantom deficiencies happen that are perplexing, check your roots for root aphids. Necrosis, weird yellowing of leaves, could be RA's. For your sake I hope its not. But check it out. Good luck.
Also, you want to check your ppm's with Massive. Sometimes you need to come down from 20 ml. Overferting is common with all this stuff.

I will check for root aphids. I have never seen them before.

Hey finally someone that uses Massive! I have used it successfully on other setups. On these ones in the pics they are only getting about 11.5mL per gallon!

The thing is, I have used this exact feed schedule on the same strain in a different setup. (many small plants) and it worked well to very well.

 

[altitudefarmer]

Epsons will not fix that as its for an Mg deff.
:worried

That's not a Nitrogen deficiency. An foliar epsom will give the plants necessary Mg and sulphur, even if the Mg is locked out from too much K in the soil.

Another thing to consider when using chem nutrients in soil is toxic salt buildup- I battled it forever when I used chems in soil. If the soil in your pots is crusted with white powder or hard as a rock, it's toxic salt buildup.

 

[RareDanknessRep]

Anyone else notice the burn on many the leaf tips? If it's not burning from the light, it's burning from nutes... This could be a combination of pH lockout & nute burn. Do you have a proper soil pH test?

 

[BCrocker]

That's not a Nitrogen deficiency. An foliar epsom will give the plants necessary Mg and sulphur, even if the Mg is locked out from too much K in the soil.

Another thing to consider when using chem nutrients in soil is toxic salt buildup- I battled it forever when I used chems in soil. If the soil in your pots is crusted with white powder or hard as a rock, it's toxic salt buildup.

Ya they are for sure getting enough N. Should I drop it down?

I will check the pots for build up. Maybe should switch to the GH organics line.

Anyone else notice the burn on many the leaf tips? If it's not burning from the light, it's burning from nutes... This could be a combination of pH lockout & nute burn. Do you have a proper soil pH test?

Yes a bit of burning on tips. Not sure why, when it's nit that much food. I don't have a proper soil ph test, but I will get one. Can I do it with a nuts ph probe? I have read that you can mix a certain amount of water and soil and get a good idea of what the soil is at.

 

[RareDanknessRep]

Ya they are for sure getting enough N. Should I drop it down?

I will check the pots for build up. Maybe should switch to the GH organics line.




Yes a bit of burning on tips. Not sure why, when it's nit that much food. I don't have a proper soil ph test, but I will get one. Can I do it with a nuts ph probe? I have read that you can mix a certain amount of water and soil and get a good idea of what the soil is at.

My money's officially on magnesium deficiency, but could be a phantom def. caused by pH lockout... I've never had great luck with a probe style pH soil meter - the little tests are fantastic though.

These are great pH kits - - they make a full line that does N, P, K & pH which is clutch when you have soil mysteries.

 

[GettinHeadband]

Luda is the man! Who else is gonna help you grow dank. :evilgrin0040:

 

[LUDACRIS.]

Luda is the man! Who else is gonna help you grow dank. :evilgrin0040:

Thanks.

CHRIS.
:)

 

[LUDACRIS.]

Double post. Sorry.

CHRIS.

 

[CHILKaT]

That is not a nitrogen deficiency. It's molybdenum deficiency which can often look like or mimic a nitrogen deficiency. In a nitrogen deficiency the whole leaf yellows, and starts from the bottom of the plant. Molybdenum starts in the middle of the plant, not at the bottom like nitrogen, it causes the leaf tips to yellow inward and necrosis to develop from the tips inward often curling up, as well as purplish leaf discoloration. Molybdenum is needed by the plants for chemical changes associated with nitrogen nutrition and enables the plant to use nitrogen taken up from the soil. When molybdenum is insufficient the nitrates accumulate in the leaves and the plant cannot use them to make proteins. The plants become stunted with symptoms similar to nitrogen deficiency. The edges of the leaves will become scorched by the accumulation of unused nitrates. A molybdenum deficiency is rarely seen at a ph of 6.0 or above because the plant needs very little of this element, but an acidic ph will lock it out. Speaking from experience, if you have an 8 or 9 week strain, you should be okay, if you have a longer growing strain your plants will suffer horribly if you don't get your ph corrected.

 

[dank_]

IMO its a tad of overfert/lockout. When hand watering, sometimes we hit them a little too hot when the medium is a little too dry, can cause some root friage and hurts nute uptake, causing plant to feed off its leaves

being too close too,the bulbs seems I always have an area of a plant that is really close to a bulb yellow fast

That's what it looks like... I'd recommend using Clearex.

 

[dank_]

That is not a nitrogen deficiency. It's molybdenum deficiency which can often look like or mimic a nitrogen deficiency. In a nitrogen deficiency the whole leaf yellows, and starts from the bottom of the plant. Molybdenum starts in the middle of the plant, not at the bottom like nitrogen, it causes the leaf tips to yellow inward and necrosis to develop from the tips inward often curling up, as well as purplish leaf discoloration. Molybdenum is needed by the plants for chemical changes associated with nitrogen nutrition and enables the plant to use nitrogen taken up from the soil. When molybdenum is insufficient the nitrates accumulate in the leaves and the plant cannot use them to make proteins. The plants become stunted with symptoms similar to nitrogen deficiency. The edges of the leaves will become scorched by the accumulation of unused nitrates. A molybdenum deficiency is rarely seen at a ph of 6.0 or above because the plant needs very little of this element, but an acidic ph will lock it out. Speaking from experience, if you have an 8 or 9 week strain, you should be okay, if you have a longer growing strain your plants will suffer horribly if you don't get your ph corrected.

Interesting!

 

[kuz]

I'm not 100% sure on how to calculate this correctly, can you let me know?

Find the spreadsheet from cannastats, the one you can download. Plug in the guaranteed analysis and ml per gallon. You didnt give us the Ca or Mg numbers but i ran the npk. In ppm's you are N132 P103 K864, the massive is strong stuff. Dont know much about growing in dirt but you might try cutting the massive in half next time and see how it looks. 400 ppm potassium and K four times N. Did you foliar with epsom? Looks like Altitude was right on.

If you just increased N that might work too. I would lighten up then see how strong you could run it.

 

[kuz]

I dont spray anything on the buds after they get that far along though, I might try and just hit some fans and not hit the buds directly, idk if epsom burns them or not. I mean they get rained on outdoors, but I just get pananoid when spaying them inside, late in flower.

That is interesting what Chilkat said, some of the leaves look a little purple. could be a little of both, ph problem and excess K.

 

[CHILKaT]

I really just think your ph is too low. You're going to run into more deficiencies from nutrient lockout. I wouldn't spray my plants 6 weeks into flower, but that's my personal opinion. If they are getting close to flushing them, and I am assuming you will be flushing, flushing the soil may bring your soil back into proper ph. I have intentionally grown plants in a soil ph of 5.5. Deficiencies can be quite tricky, many may appear at the same time. When you can see the deficiency start and progress you have a better idea of what is going on. If you're looking at a picture of a late deficiency they can tend to look similar. But I've have seen many in acidic soil due to lockout. It doesn't look like magnesium to me, it looks like molybdenum, but it might very likely be both since a low ph will lockout quite a few nutrients.

Mg deficiencies occur first on the lower leaves. There is chlorosis of tissue between the veins, which remain green, and starting from the tips the blades die and usually curl upward. Purple color builds up on stems and petioles.

You may first notice Mg symptoms at the top of the plant. The leaves in the growing shoot are lime-colored. In extreme cases, all the leaves turn practically white, with green veins. Treat Mg symptoms with one-half teaspoon of epsom salts to each quart of water, and water as usual.

Mg deficiency encompasses the whole leaf, you won't have half the leaf green and looking at the pictures in both threads this appears to be the case. Here are some photos of early and mid mg deficiency and followed by molyd deficiency. Hope you find this helpful.

 

[altitudefarmer]

Great info, chilkat.

 

[BCrocker]

PH of soil, or nutrients? I have yet to find a soil kit ph test, will look agian today.

The nutrients are always 6.2 to 6.5

 

[altitudefarmer]

I pH my nutrients to 6.6-6.8 using Roots Organic soil (with a little extra dolomite lime), and the pH in the soil stays around 6.4-6.5. When straight watering, I don't pH- the water I use hovers right around 7. Soil test kits are pretty inexpensive at a garden center (maybe not at the hydro shop, tho). I never trusted a soil probe after the first few uses; I seem to jack 'em up somehow. But they are available.

 

[CHILKaT]

If you're using straight Promix HP, it has been anywhere from 4.8 - 5.5 out of the bag, it's usually around 5.5. Straight Sphagnum Peat Moss can be anywhere between 3.5 - 4.5 so the manufacturer is adding lime to bring it up to 5.5, depends on the bale you get, sometimes it's right on, sometimes not. Since this is not a hydro grow, you'll still need to bring it up into the 6.5 range, if you're completely soilless though I think you can hover around 6.0 and avoid nutrient lockouts. If you're not adjusting your medium with dolomite or something prior to planting, then that's probably where your problem is. You definitely need to ph your water and medium otherwise it's just a guessing game. With a grow the size you're doing, I don't think I would want to leave it to chance. Good luck though, hope you get everything worked out.

Oh, and I too have not had any luck with the soil probe type ph testers, I never got a reading other than 7. The soil test kits from the garden centers seem to work just fine though and are cheap enough.

I admit, I am a lazy farmer! I switched to a living organic soil, now I just set it and forget it, watering is all I do...it makes me and my plants happy!:)

 

[BCrocker]

I pH my nutrients to 6.6-6.8 using Roots Organic soil (with a little extra dolomite lime), and the pH in the soil stays around 6.4-6.5. When straight watering, I don't pH- the water I use hovers right around 7. Soil test kits are pretty inexpensive at a garden center (maybe not at the hydro shop, tho). I never trusted a soil probe after the first few uses; I seem to jack 'em up somehow. But they are available.

Ya looking at getting a soil test asap.

If you're using straight Promix HP, it has been anywhere from 4.8 - 5.5 out of the bag, it's usually around 5.5. Straight Sphagnum Peat Moss can be anywhere between 3.5 - 4.5 so the manufacturer is adding lime to bring it up to 5.5, depends on the bale you get, sometimes it's right on, sometimes not. Since this is not a hydro grow, you'll still need to bring it up into the 6.5 range, if you're completely soilless though I think you can hover around 6.0 and avoid nutrient lockouts. If you're not adjusting your medium with dolomite or something prior to planting, then that's probably where your problem is. You definitely need to ph your water and medium otherwise it's just a guessing game. With a grow the size you're doing, I don't think I would want to leave it to chance. Good luck though, hope you get everything worked out.

Oh, and I too have not had any luck with the soil probe type ph testers, I never got a reading other than 7. The soil test kits from the garden centers seem to work just fine though and are cheap enough.

I admit, I am a lazy farmer! I switched to a living organic soil, now I just set it and forget it, watering is all I do...it makes me and my plants happy!:)

How did you PH the Pro Mix? I didn't know it was that low out of the bag.

 

[CHILKaT]

I use a LaMotte soil analysis kit, Model STH-14.