Nearly perfect environment STILL PROBLEMS please help

[cannafarmer420]

Hello! What does pia mean?

Pain in the ass

Ιt is more difficult to master, but there are some advantages (higher yields and faster growth if done correctly of course)and if you are looking for TOTAL control over all aspects of growing, it's one of your very few choices... It's really a preference,some people just go outdoor, have no control over anything, and at the same time enjoy that they only have to water the plant from the hose

Inferior to a great living soil IMHO, but interesting for sure if you want huge yields and short veg time

 

[Trash_2002]

@FlyingToast how they going?

 

[Choppr]

Pain in the ass

Its really so simple, unlike soil or even coco with water there is "no buffer". Which is the good and bad, if a pathogen is on the loose it happens very quickly, but its also very quick to remedy, the same reason they grow so much quicker w/ higher yield/brix, is again because of no buffer, guys like me (and you) who have grown many years in Soil, transition to Coco and then Full Water very quickly! as you already know the plants needs and phase timings... The guys that struggle are usually "new gardeners" who start out in Hydro, Their learning curve is mostly because they've never grown Cannabis.

 

[Choppr]

Alright,sounds like a plan! Let's wait for @Choppr to weigh in, I'd love his opinion

If your going to continue the run, I would advise research calcium hypochlorite, but easier for now use UC Roots. Do a full water/rez change (bleach wash all submerged equipment), Use UC roots at 1/2 dosage (half ml per gal). Run base nutrients only! (no additives at all)! let the system run sterile for 10 days. For the size of your plants 400ppm nutrient solution is fine. Good Aeration is important as we talked about, and 1.5 to 2 inches air space. Also pH to 5.9, and dont chase pH, "let it drift up and down along the pH scale"(this is good for nutrient uptake/availability) only adjust back to 5.9 if it drifts out of range below 5.5 or above 6.6 - You should see changes within a few days...

Its good to keep the run going because of fundamentals, and teaches trouble shooting. It may not be very good for final product - lol,
You also need to have "Process Control" figured out before your next run!

Process Control: Every Reservoir Change is to bleach clean everything, and Start Each Rez Change as a Sterile System. Let the Hypochlorite dissipate 10 days, then run as a Living System (add your microbials), Until the next Water Change and repeat. The Sterile Start each time will kill off any Pathogens that may have started in the Previous Reservoir (resetting the Rhizo and System). I will also be able to run a little longer between full water changes.

I dont use any black gunky additives. No Enzymes either.
My Reservoirs Have Power Si, and MegaCrop 2 Part Salt Ferts - Crystal Clear, White Roots. (well until I start flowering, "sweet candy" Pt C will stain roots "tea colored") good luck my'dude

 

[Choppr]

@FlyingToast - These are the same Auto Flowering Plants I posted march 8, post# 26 - they are 5.3 wks - doubled in size, Pre flowering.

 

[FlyingToast]

If your going to continue the run, I would advise research calcium hypochlorite, but easier for now use UC Roots. Do a full water/rez change (bleach wash all submerged equipment), Use UC roots at 1/2 dosage (half ml per gal). Run base nutrients only! (no additives at all)! let the system run sterile for 10 days. For the size of your plants 400ppm nutrient solution is fine. Good Aeration is important as we talked about, and 1.5 to 2 inches air space. Also pH to 5.9, and dont chase pH, "let it drift up and down along the pH scale"(this is good for nutrient uptake/availability) only adjust back to 5.9 if it drifts out of range below 5.5 or above 6.6 - You should see changes within a few days...

Its good to keep the run going because of fundamentals, and teaches trouble shooting. It may not be very good for final product - lol,
You also need to have "Process Control" figured out before your next run!

Process Control: Every Reservoir Change is to bleach clean everything, and Start Each Rez Change as a Sterile System. Let the Hypochlorite dissipate 10 days, then run as a Living System (add your microbials), Until the next Water Change and repeat. The Sterile Start each time will kill off any Pathogens that may have started in the Previous Reservoir (resetting the Rhizo and System). I will also be able to run a little longer between full water changes.

I dont use any black gunky additives. No Enzymes either.
My Reservoirs Have Power Si, and MegaCrop 2 Part Salt Ferts - Crystal Clear, White Roots. (well until I start flowering, "sweet candy" Pt C will stain roots "tea colored") good luck my'dude

I will provide pictures of the plants in the coming days, 1 healed completely, another one is 80% there, the others not so much.
My country does not sell UC roots :( i am gonna have to find another root zone optimizer, i will tho! or try amazon for UC roots. i'll let you know what i come up with.

FYI my tap water is 150ppm, should i run 400 on base nutrients? so 250 ppm of nutrients?

Now process control is something i would like to cement in the way i grow, and thank you so much for bringing it up! i have some questions :
Every reservoir change i have to disconnect the buckets between them and basically take the grow apart and submerge it in chlorine? if i do that i will for sure have leak issues on the connections between the buckets (i had for a long time and it was so so hard to figure it out i would LOVE to not have those problems again). then there is the problem that i don't have the time to dismantle the system because i don't have anywhere to put the plants and the roots will dry up. what i can do is empty the buckets, clean their inner walls of all gunk and stuff, and then fill the system with water and a HEAVY dose of chlorine and let it run for say 15' at full pump speed, would that be sufficiently disinfecting? i can even rub the inside of the system while chlorine is circulating. then empty it again and fill it up with a 400ppm nutrient mix,would that be ok? after this run i will be completely redisigning the system, hopefully with your help :)

i did not understand the "Let the Hypochlorite dissipate 10 days" i should let chlorine 10 days in the system before using it? every water change? what happens to the plants? in 10 days there wont be a single leaf alive. i think i didn't understand that at all xD

i would also like to ask, is chlorine bad for the rootzone? i imagine that its highly toxic, but i see your water bubbling, why is this? is this chlorine or something?

 

[FlyingToast]

@FlyingToast how they going?

ill upload photos soon, they doin a bit better! <3

 

[FlyingToast]

Here are some photos @Choppr @Trash_2002
They are trying for sure
But super super slow growth

 

[Choppr]

i did not understand the "Let the Hypochlorite dissipate 10 days" i should let chlorine 10 days in the system before using it?

the UC Roots is Hypochlorous Acid, It goes in with the Plants. It loses strength in 5-10 days depending on aeration.

Cleaning your Rigid system should be as simple as mixing household bleach/water in a spray bottle spray everything down wipe clean.

As I explained above, at each water change, I will mix my 4 gal of nutrient Solution in each spare bucket/rez, pH to 5.9 and then add 6ml of UC Roots to the 4gal Mix Solution, I drop my Plants in. (depending on how you aerate the UC Roots will dissipate in 3-10 days). note: It is also good to run 6-8ml/4gal in the current (dirty reservoir(s) 24 hrs before the full rez change this will insure to kill off any pathogens prior to placing the plants into their fresh reservoirs. In your situation not wanting to tear apart your system you will need 6 spare buckets/Air stones.

If your plants are healthy again? You can just add UC Roots 1-2ml per gal. and each week repeat(adding the same amount). But remember this kills off all microbial life (good and bad) You can run sterile the whole run, Plants will remain Healthy and Vigorous without Microbial Life.

Yes, Amazon sells UC Roots.

The Bubbles are caused by Saponin that is in the "Power Si" Product I Use, (Sio2) Silicon Dioxide, The Power Si Product Is the only other Input I add to a Sterile System, Its expensive but essential (my opinion). I have done side by side same strain Testing, it Works! (healthier, stronger, thicker Plants) (expensive but lasts long, only 1/2ml to 1ml/ gal)

there are 2 ways to run Living Systems or Sterile Systems.

any more questions, DM Me as this can become long winded - Right On!

 

[Trash_2002]

Here are some photos @Choppr @Trash_2002
They are trying for sure
But super super slow growth

Two of them started to get better and roots started to get white, maybe clone the two that started to recover and restart from scratch now that you know what caused the problems? (Too Strong fertilizer and low dissolved oxygen), sterilize the system clean it really well after the clones root and start again would be my advice.

Or if you have access to new clones/seeds and those genetics aren't top notch premium stuff you need to save, it could be a good idea.

They are still struggling because of the root rot, I would prune that root that's half brown, and leave only the white healthy half, To try recover faster that plant for cloning so you can restart fresh faster if you don't have access to healthy rooted clones or new seeds.

 

[monkey47]

Greetings, I run a RDWC 6 plant system and I am doing most of the things correctly, yet I have problems, I will list all the details of my environment here and maybe you can help me identify what's wrong with these guys cause I am absolutely lost...
So 6 plant RDWC 70liters of water in total

Environment:25 Celsius during the day 20 during the nighttime
60 RH at day 70Rh at night
Ambient Co2 400ppm unless I'm in the room (which is not often)
Water change every 15 days sterilising buckets every time with small amounts of antiseptic gel)
VPD is almost constantly at 1.1 (I have the pulse pro thingy so I am monitoring it and I can be sure that the environment is consistent)


I have an automatic pH controller so it is at 6.0 ALWAYS no fluctuations ever not even for a moment, it's rock solid.



Nutes : GH Trio at equal quantities ( nutrient order : first atami cal mag, then micro, then grow, then bloom (cal mag 1ml/lt) it all amounts to about 750ppm (see picture of ppm meter) then fulvic acid (NO SILICA because I could never get it to not fog/crystallize no matter how much I tried)

LIGHTING : lumatek Zeus 600w pro led
Growing space 1 square meter
(Plants are recieving 300ppfd see picture for full data about the light ppfd DLI spectrum etc)

Water temps 23-24celsius

Used to have airstones but they clogged up and now I have just the end of the plastic tube in the water(but directly underneath the roots so the bubbles go right on the roots this could be an issue)

I have a fan gently blowing on the leaves (they are gently dancing)

Looks like a deficiency to me, and it showed up when I was feeding 400ppm
So I upped the feed to 750ppm gradually, saw a little difference, they were more yellowish before, and they got green and perked up slightly but stopped kinda "in the middle" of the process to full health/praying
I also should mention these are photoperiods.

I've been collecting data about almost everything any other questions I'm happy to answer please help me

water temp is to high bro. look up the charts and look at the curve the amount of available oxygen lowers with every degree. I run my buckets at 23 degrees i get root problems.

 

[FlyingToast]

water temp is to high bro. look up the charts and look at the curve the amount of available oxygen lowers with every degree. I run my buckets at 23 degrees i get root problems.

i agree, but unfortunately i don't have a chiller, i do have complete temperature control of the space though, i could lower temps in the tent, but how would that play out for the plants? lets say i can do 20c at day and 17c at night, would that hurt the plants? i think it is on the limits (and then i could get 20c water)

 

[FlyingToast]

Two of them started to get better and roots started to get white, maybe clone the two that started to recover and restart from scratch now that you know what caused the problems? (Too Strong fertilizer and low dissolved oxygen), sterilize the system clean it really well after the clones root and start again would be my advice.

Or if you have access to new clones/seeds and those genetics aren't top notch premium stuff you need to save, it could be a good idea.

They are still struggling because of the root rot, I would prune that root that's half brown, and leave only the white healthy half, To try recover faster that plant for cloning so you can restart fresh faster if you don't have access to healthy rooted clones or new seeds.

just dropped 4 seeds of anesia seeds Future#1, i have never cloned and rdwc is already a task by itself, i think im not ready for the whole clone thing yet... im planning to keep the 2 that healed running (for the lessons they will provide along the way mostly, and the fact that they are growing slowly so i believe they will be the same size as the new ones when its flowering time (if i dont fuck up again) ill sterilize, prune some roots,drop the water temps a bit and try my best

 

[FlyingToast]

So I did what we all talked about... Emptied the system removed the plants, washed everything with chlorine, rinsed thoroughly and filled it up with 250ppm of equal parts of the general hydroponics trio on and nothing else.(The tap water was 100ppm so 350ppm total)
The only thing that remained is the high water temps
The ppms are slowly rising as you will see in the picture below which means the plants are not using nutes probably they perked up for 2 days and now they are starting to die off, roots are browning etc...

I don't know what else to do I am very very disappointed and I am considering to stop growing for ever after 8 years of continuous growing, I'm very sad that nothing is working and I am trying my best constantly, here's some pictures at this point I'll do what you guys say I have no opinion any more....

I even threw new seeds on paper towel with a 6ph water and like +30ppm of clonex, then placed them on 4 days PHed and pre-soaked 6ph Rock wool and they died off, I really DON'T UNDERSTAND WHATS WRONG Ive done this a thousand times, its fucking killing me.

Thanks for everything guys, what can I say I might be useless after all

 

[BuffNuts]

Same problems different pheno.

When you've grown millions of Marijuana plants, you understand there's only like 3 problems people have over and over and over in different grows. Until they find a shitty trash pheno that tolerates their shit nutes. It's a conspiracy man.. You gotta get the Manganese OUT! Fuck monoterps!

 

[Trash_2002]

So I did what we all talked about... Emptied the system removed the plants, washed everything with chlorine, rinsed thoroughly and filled it up with 250ppm of equal parts of the general hydroponics trio on and nothing else.(The tap water was 100ppm so 350ppm total)
The only thing that remained is the high water temps
The ppms are slowly rising as you will see in the picture below which means the plants are not using nutes probably they perked up for 2 days and now they are starting to die off, roots are browning etc...

I don't know what else to do I am very very disappointed and I am considering to stop growing for ever after 8 years of continuous growing, I'm very sad that nothing is working and I am trying my best constantly, here's some pictures at this point I'll do what you guys say I have no opinion any more....

I even threw new seeds on paper towel with a 6ph water and like +30ppm of clonex, then placed them on 4 days PHed and pre-soaked 6ph Rock wool and they died off, I really DON'T UNDERSTAND WHATS WRONG Ive done this a thousand times, its fucking killing me.

Thanks for everything guys, what can I say I might be useless after all
View attachment 2147259

I know it's a bummer, but shit happens we are dealing with living things, I pretty much lost 75% of a crop yield this year because of not proper bufferd peat ph (ph3.5-4.0) horrible plants uptake, and that fucked me really good, than got a pre made living soilbut that locked half of my prized seeds, had to move them to a green house on a friend in new soil for it to recover....that made me so fucking angry that I went back to making my own living organics soil after so many years, and so far I couldn't be happier. It also made me re-realize how much I love organics.
Don't stress it out, seeds can sometimes fail to germinate.
Just rinse and repeat with fresh seeds, you could also maybe make one dwc for learning and testing and the other plants with your old proven ways?

 

[FlyingToast]

Same problems different pheno.

View attachment 2147514

When you've grown millions of Marijuana plants, you understand there's only like 3 problems people have over and over and over in different grows. Until they find a shitty trash pheno that tolerates their shit nutes. It's a conspiracy man.. You gotta get the Manganese OUT! Fuck monoterps!

I agree... Do you think I'm lacking CalMag?

 

[FlyingToast]

I know it's a bummer, but shit happens we are dealing with living things, I pretty much lost 75% of a crop yield this year because of not proper bufferd peat ph (ph3.5-4.0) horrible plants uptake, and that fucked me really good, than got a pre made living soilbut that locked half of my prized seeds, had to move them to a green house on a friend in new soil for it to recover....that made me so fucking angry that I went back to making my own living organics soil after so many years, and so far I couldn't be happier. It also made me re-realize how much I love organics.
Don't stress it out, seeds can sometimes fail to germinate.
Just rinse and repeat with fresh seeds, you could also maybe make one dwc for learning and testing and the other plants with your old proven ways?

Ouch man I feel for you, I hope it turned out okay... I don't want to go back to soil...I've been extremely successful but I can't carry soil and pots any more, i am a kinda disabled person I can't walk right or lift anything so hydro is the way to go for me (also I don't have time to water the plants myself and many other things soil requires)
So soil isn't an option. I'd love to get to know hydro but honestly I am doing almost anything AT LEAST at a mediocre level. Most people get bud under mediocre growing, I don't get why I have to suffer that much with a nice environment (honestly almost perfect) and a nice 350 ppm solution on a clean reservoir

 

[Trash_2002]

Ouch man I feel for you, I hope it turned out okay... I don't want to go back to soil...I've been extremely successful but I can't carry soil and pots any more, i am a kinda disabled person I can't walk right or lift anything so hydro is the way to go for me (also I don't have time to water the plants myself and many other things soil requires)
So soil isn't an option. I'd love to get to know hydro but honestly I am doing almost anything AT LEAST at a mediocre level. Most people get bud under mediocre growing, I don't get why I have to suffer that much with a nice environment (honestly almost perfect) and a nice 350 ppm solution on a clean reservoir

it went out that instead of two harvests im harvesting my first round this year on friday;.. with a 75% yield penalty LOL
the good thing is the ones at my friend greenhouse recovered amazinly good.. so in two months i will have a good harvest to split with him while i veg my super soil ladies.

its just because when root rot takes place its a damn battle in DWC, there's not much that can be done other than sterilize it hardcore, but plants will suffer hardcore too, it can be a chasing tails battle, i've seen that many times, the dissolved oxygen was too low from the start. That brown slime is preventing your roots to uptake what they need.

My advice, scratch it all "hospital level" clean and restart like it "never happened", with much valuable lessons learned on the way.

 

[Trash_2002]

So I did what we all talked about... Emptied the system removed the plants, washed everything with chlorine, rinsed thoroughly and filled it up with 250ppm of equal parts of the general hydroponics trio on and nothing else.(The tap water was 100ppm so 350ppm total)
The only thing that remained is the high water temps
The ppms are slowly rising as you will see in the picture below which means the plants are not using nutes probably they perked up for 2 days and now they are starting to die off, roots are browning etc...

I don't know what else to do I am very very disappointed and I am considering to stop growing for ever after 8 years of continuous growing, I'm very sad that nothing is working and I am trying my best constantly, here's some pictures at this point I'll do what you guys say I have no opinion any more....

I even threw new seeds on paper towel with a 6ph water and like +30ppm of clonex, then placed them on 4 days PHed and pre-soaked 6ph Rock wool and they died off, I really DON'T UNDERSTAND WHATS WRONG Ive done this a thousand times, its fucking killing me.

Thanks for everything guys, what can I say I might be useless after all
View attachment 2147259

Another very important thing, think in investing on a chiller, 24c water temp is not good to water oxygen holding capabilities and will also breed ground for possible root rot in the future. Since its already a RDWC it will be easy to install.
Water has its best oxygen holding capability at 21c, thats the sweet spot. In fact that could be a large portion of why root rot took place.