Need advice - best Ebb & Flow growing material?

[singingcrow]

Hi folks,

Thought I would reach out to all of you experts for some advice; I am using this new ebb and flow botanicare tray and reservoir and have been trying to figure out the best growing materials. I need some help!

Right now I am using grodan slabs, scored to hold 2X2 rockwool cubes. Thought this was a fabulous idea. Notsomuch. The slabs seem to get algae because of excessive water-holding. I really dislike them and am getting to hate rockwool in general.

You can see residual "green" on the bottom of the tray if you look closely at the pic.

I know from past experience that hydroton sheds water much more quickly. I hate working with hydroton, though since I work full-time, have a small child, and it is so darned messy (plus stains everything clay-colored pretty much forever). My last few grows have been hydroton and I tried to avoid it this time.

Anyone have any advice about the best grow mediums and setups? I've thought about using those mats. How do they work? With rockwool? Any and all advice welcome. Below is a picture.

Oh, and if anyone wants to answer a second question: If you were me and wanted to correct it this grow, how would you do it? I have a few stunted clones because of these crazy slabs.

 

[FromGROtoFLO]

Could switch to smart pots and sometype of soil, soilless or coco mix. That would help with keeping things cleaner. Also make sure their is a decent slant to your table so it drains smooth. With cubes i'd run with coco mats, gives the roots a place to hide and let everything get pretty close to dry before watering to avoid algea (root rot). You could try running H202, the peroxide will kill any and all bacteria including algea. Another idea, if you have the money would be a beneficial enzyme like hygrozyme. Very expensive but will break down the algea and turn it into beneficials for the plant. Again, slant your table slightly and avoid overwatering.

 

[cemchris]

If money isn't an object Dyna Rok II by Dyna-gro. Silica Rocks that hold some water and release silica. Last time I bought them they were a little more then 50 bucks a 1.4 Cu bag. Since you have experience with hydroton this would be an easy step for you. I would say its between coco and hydroton on the water holding ability. Not as messy and wont stain stuff. Granted I washed them but not to much of a hassle as hydroton. Results were stellar and only reason I switched was the price.

Link:

 

[singingcrow]

Thanks very much to both of you. I'll check them both out. Question, if you are reading this: I've read conflicting opinions about beneficial bacteria via compost tea in hydroponic systems. I DID forget to mention that my grow is all organic (mostly due to two cancer patients who need organic meds because of compromised immune systems!)

So... is dynorok or hydrozyme organic? I did add hydrogen peroxide to the res and they seem to be improving a *tiny* bit already, but I still have an algae issue. Ugh.

 

[GirlCarny]

Have a friend that runs ebb and flow. He uses "sure to grow" growing medium. He does really well with it, may be worth a few minutes checking out there web site.

 

[singingcrow]

I did check out that material. I certainly would give it a try, next grow. Completely innate, full of air, similar to rockwool. Nice stuff! The only thing will depend on cost. Hopefully not too high end. Thank you very much for the suggestion. I like the Sure to Grow idea come mid Jan...

 

[sincethe80s]

i use 6" rockwool on thick cocomats real simple flood for 15-20 minutes once or twice a day. i tried flooding and draining smartpots in coco, but packing all those smartpots with coco is alot of work. check out my thread . i keep it real simple all i do is check the resevoir every 4 days til i chop.

 

[cemchris]

Thanks very much to both of you. I'll check them both out. Question, if you are reading this: I've read conflicting opinions about beneficial bacteria via compost tea in hydroponic systems. I DID forget to mention that my grow is all organic (mostly due to two cancer patients who need organic meds because of compromised immune systems!)

So... is dynorok or hydrozyme organic? I did add hydrogen peroxide to the res and they seem to be improving a *tiny* bit already, but I still have an algae issue. Ugh.

Dyna Roks are 100 % organic. Hygrozyme have no idea. Covering with panda will get rid of the algae. If you only need one bag I would totally rock them. When you have to buy 5 or more bags it starts getting a little steep.

People say compost tea is really good in hydro for root problems. Thats more for DWC then ebb and flo because that method doesnt have the root issues usually associated with it unless its rot from drowning the roots.

 

[singingcrow]

Dyna Roks are 100 % organic. Hygrozyme have no idea. Covering with panda will get rid of the algae. If you only need one bag I would totally rock them. When you have to buy 5 or more bags it starts getting a little steep.

People say compost tea is really good in hydro for root problems. Thats more for DWC then ebb and flo because that method doesnt have the root issues usually associated with it unless its rot from drowning the roots.

Thats great to know. Thanks Cemchris! I think I will try a compost tea until payday lol....Why is this damned hobby SO expensive? Sorry, vent over!

 

[Blucross]

singingcrow,

I would give RW another chance.. The key is watering.. The norm seems to be water 4 X a light cycle.. I feel this is totally incorrect... I transplant from the ez cloner to 6" cubes, and water once.. Depending on the temp. i usually will not again for a week.. This allows the RW to dry up a bit and allowing root to explode.. Also i go by the weight of the cubes, to decide if water is necessary. As the plant becomes bigger increase the amount of watering.. I hope this helps.. I'm currently love'n the easy of rockwool....

 

[ttystikk]

Thats great to know. Thanks Cemchris! I think I will try a compost tea until payday lol....Why is this damned hobby SO expensive? Sorry, vent over!

This hobby- err, profession- is expensive only because people think they're going to get rich growing a plant. The more you learn about growing indoors, the more you learn that it need not be so expensive. There are nearly always better or less expensive ways to do anything that you might get at a hydro store.

Nutrients, for example: nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium, plus micros- no matter what the label promises, that's all that's in there! You wonder why greenhouses don't buy the stuff? Because they know better! Get Jacks hydroponic and you will be DONE buying nutes for a long, long time. And don't worry about it being 'non-organic'- it's what your plants need and it won't introduce any pathogens into your system.

 

[closethippie]

I completely agree about being "non organic" not being a problem + it would be very hard for you to do in an ebb & flow.. in rockwool.... I think i pesticide would be your main concern there. If you want to try organic hydroponics in your ebb & flow I would maybe try coco coir mixed with coco chips in smart pots & flood once a day and don't forget your benefical bacteria.. GH has their organic "gobox" (I think that's the name) its also all vegan organic (minus 1 of them has fish something I think)
Honestly to be able to fully take advatage of organics easily you need soil..
I would give hydroton ecp a go again it is a great medium to take advantage of the root getting a lot of oxygen to them and holds a good amout of water. Make sure you rinse it very good before using it because it really shouldn't ever make a mess and stain things. I like to rinse hydroton until it runs clear when coming out of the bottom then let it sit in ph'ed RO water over night before transplants.
Good luck with your grow

 

[singingcrow]

Thanks everyone. Good advice! Does anyone have any advice as to a solid regimen plan based on these? Im thinking of going semi-organic for the most of my grow (minus the plants for cancer patients)

For Bloom? For Veg? For seedlings? For clones? (any advice is welcome)
Here is what I own:
-Foxfarm Bloom
-Foxfarm Grow (veg)
-Botanicare Liquid Karma
-Botanicare Aquashield
-Botanicare SeaGreen
-Hygrozyme
-Molasses
-K-L-N
-Dutchmaster Saturator
-Cal-Mag

 

[ttystikk]

I will be blunt; if you want an organic grow, get dirt. If you grow in hydro, it pretty much can't be all organic because the system is too small to support the microbial life necessary to support the needs of high producing plants.

Organics is the practice to using microbes to break down organic, INSUOLUBLE sources of nutrients so your plants can use them. This won't happen in water.

I'm no big fan of rockwool either but it does seem to be effective, especially for rooting clones and vegetative stages. I tried an all hydroton system and it isn't efficient.

If you want to grow with microbes and then use H2O2 then you've just killed your microherd.

Hygrozyme is as much a cleaner of residues as it is anything else. I don't recommend it for continual hydroponic use.

Contrary to the hype out there, growing with nutrient salts in hydroponic settings is fine for patients, no matter hot sick they are. For one, they're the same nutrients! For two, you can be sure of what's in your nutrients. Organics have a nasty habit of hiding a lot of heavy metals, which don't have to be on the label because the maker didn't actively add them.

If your patients are too sick for Jacks Professional in your reservoir, then I submit they're too sick to use medical cannabis, period. The stuff is very clean, and comes with what's on the label, and nothing else.

I've been in your shoes, and I'm sharing with you what I learned along the way- I hope it helps, and I wish you all the success your hard efforts deserve!

 

[hiboy]

Rw is so simple, especially when placed on 1/2" coco matts for drainage and root growth. Its all ive done and ive succeded every time.
In veg u water less, like once a day,
then after 2nd week in flower u can step it up to 2 times a day.
h

 

[singingcrow]

I will be blunt; if you want an organic grow, get dirt. If you grow in hydro, it pretty much can't be all organic because the system is too small to support the microbial life necessary to support the needs of high producing plants.

Organics is the practice to using microbes to break down organic, INSUOLUBLE sources of nutrients so your plants can use them. This won't happen in water.

I'm no big fan of rockwool either but it does seem to be effective, especially for rooting clones and vegetative stages. I tried an all hydroton system and it isn't efficient.

If you want to grow with microbes and then use H2O2 then you've just killed your microherd.

Hygrozyme is as much a cleaner of residues as it is anything else. I don't recommend it for continual hydroponic use.

Contrary to the hype out there, growing with nutrient salts in hydroponic settings is fine for patients, no matter hot sick they are. For one, they're the same nutrients! For two, you can be sure of what's in your nutrients. Organics have a nasty habit of hiding a lot of heavy metals, which don't have to be on the label because the maker didn't actively add them.

If your patients are too sick for Jacks Professional in your reservoir, then I submit they're too sick to use medical cannabis, period. The stuff is very clean, and comes with what's on the label, and nothing else.

I've been in your shoes, and I'm sharing with you what I learned along the way- I hope it helps, and I wish you all the success your hard efforts deserve!

Thank you for the good advice there. I've sort of just beefed up my botanicare line with buying silica, aquashield, sweet and seagrow alongside liquid karma. Think ill follow a botanicare feeding schedule that maybe someone's got out there for next grow?

 

[ttystikk]

www.jrpeters.com

Get Jacks Hydroponic and Calcium nitrate. $70 or so total for 25 POUNDS of both, available through your local gardening/greenhouse wholesaler. It's so ridiculously cheap compared to what you've just spent that the worst side effect is the feeling of being 'had' about being duped into paying so much more for the same stuff. Don't worry though, that feeling will go away the more you use it... :)