Need help, any supersoil studies?

[Scallywagg]

First question. Is the quality bad or the yield shitty? Why switch? Reason I ask is why are you trying to give the "head" grower tips or ideas. Not sure how long you have been working in the industry but keep that shit to yourself unless someone pays for you to be in that position or you do the right thing and consult.

I sure hope thats not the kind of environment you work in, or worse you are the one in charge that discourages frank discussion about what you are doing. We talk frequently about current trends and whats going on in the industry

 

[Deadstill]

First question. Is the quality bad or the yield shitty? Why switch? Reason I ask is why are you trying to give the "head" grower tips or ideas. Not sure how long you have been working in the industry but keep that shit to yourself unless someone pays for you to be in that position or you do the right thing and consult.

I sure hope thats not the kind of environment you work in, or worse you are the one in charge that discourages frank discussion about what you are doing. We talk frequently about current trends and whats going on in the industry

Sadly I've seen a lot of operations just like that. Shut up, do your job. Don't ask questions, don't derive from the plan. First one who tries to suggest a better way to do ... anything.. gets to find a new job.

 

[greengenes44]

I went back to super soil. I got tired of fucking with the nutes constantly. I love this stuff. I mix the concentrate in at the beginning of the grow, then simply water untill harvest. Everything grows perfectly. My flowers are frostier. And grow's faster. I am disabled, so it makes much less work for me. I hope this helps.
s

 

[dward]

Organic soil or super soil is best for quality. Yield is low but u get a better flavour profile and clear headed high. I use my own clay soil from the ground and mix that with coco 70/30 with about 20% perlite and 15% dry ferts. U get good rapid growth when its set up right because the environment for the roots are efficient. A good rhizosphere creates more white fuzzy roots. Its actually really simple u get what u put into the soil, by feeding the soil high quality fertilisers.
I would start with just buying compost then growing with some added kelp and bat guano top feeding it every 4 weeks. Then when u get good results try experiment with the soil mixture like adding more coco and calcium dolomite lime etc. The super soil bit is really just like how not to let the soil deplete itself, instead feeding the soil.

The book s I recommend r Jeff lowensteins: teaming with microbes and The revs: true living organics. u can get the ebooks free.
Science is all about the content of salts and how that passes into the plant. The quality soil is measured in cation exchange capacity. If u look at Cannas website they have a good amount of info.
The books from www.b-ok.org and search marijuana

 

[REDiJEDi160]

Like he said ☝. Making a good living soil is pretty easy and cheap if you use the quality ingredients produced in your area. Your first couple runs may be lower yield but over time your harvests will begin to even out. You can't have the mentality that most of the cannabis sector have as in tiny pot huge plant. Look at switching to fabric beds. Another good resource for info is the kis organics podcast and shaping fire podcast they are wonderful and teaming with knowledge

 

[Scallywagg]

Greengenes, that is why I switched to SS. It is just so much easier during the grow. (I havent posted pics here yet but i'll try) This was my last grow. This plant is way bigger than I typically flower with. Towards the end it really needed more nutes, I tried some teas but I think it was to little to late. I think It was just in the pot to long before I flowered (i was waiting on one more plant) It was about 5 feet wide. Yeild was great though

 

[cemchris]

First question. Is the quality bad or the yield shitty? Why switch? Reason I ask is why are you trying to give the "head" grower tips or ideas. Not sure how long you have been working in the industry but keep that shit to yourself unless someone pays for you to be in that position or you do the right thing and consult.

I sure hope thats not the kind of environment you work in, or worse you are the one in charge that discourages frank discussion about what you are doing. We talk frequently about current trends and whats going on in the industry

It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with in a position like that you are up on the "trends" or know what you are doing. I mean if you approach your commercial spots like a home grow. Good luck and godspeed. Nowhere I work is like that since I'm not employed by these companies I just do work for them. I get to fix problems from people like this all the time. Why I was curious if what you were doing wasnt working or the quality was bad.

The point im making is are you trying to be a guy suggesting stuff and having a casual convo with some coffee in the industry or are you trying to be a guy doing the stuff in the industry? Some people just want a paycheck and go home and that's perfectly ok.

Sadly I've seen a lot of operations just like that. Shut up, do your job. Don't ask questions, don't derive from the plan. First one who tries to suggest a better way to do ... anything.. gets to find a new job.

I have never seen that happen. Usually people get fired for frying a room of 500 plants claiming they know what they are doing but don't. Like mixing something wrong and going "Oops". Everyone always comes in with suggestions on a better way to do things but strangely 95% of them haven't grown plants at scale or grown plants at all. 10k home grow is way different from a 200 lighter. By the time you are running a commercial spot you should already have everything figured out. Not saying you still cant and won't learn but most of the time you are learning from your own testing and approach and keeping it under wraps or in house. The last thing you want to do is totally switch up what you are doing unless what you are doing isnt working. There's the whole point. If it's not working the wrong guy/girl is running things. There is multi ways to grow plants in a warehouse. This is nothing new. You shouldn't be jumping around in a commercial spot "trying" to figure that out.

Most everyone I've seen do that is now out of business and sold their licenses. I'm just being real.

 

[cemchris]

My best suggestion is talk to some large scale super soil people. I haven't seen it yet indoors. Most everyone I know still using soil in warehouses are using something like 707, ocean forest, or buying bulk from a supplier like B.A.S. The amount of time and labor involved is the deal killer. Outdoors I understand. Indoors on multi crop flips and year. You would almost have to employee people just to mix and tend soil. Not to mention the amount of room you would need to let the soil cook depending on the plant count and # of lights. Why you just buy it from a processor and have it delivered. Cuts all of that out of the picture.

 

[Scallywagg]

Chris Im not really sure what your intent is here. You think you know everything you need to know and dont need to keep working towards a better product, and that is fine.

We are always looking for ways to do things better. Im not sure why looking for data at a commercial grow is so aggravating for you. Lots of people say growing in super soil has a higher terpene profile. I am trying to come up with data to support that or refute it.

Do you have anything to contribute? Or are you just going to keep saying you should just do your job and shut up? Is it bro science, maybe but I guess you just want me to take your word for it. Ill tell my boss Chris said its crap and we'll just move on. Thanks for the input.

 

[Scallywagg]

Just for info purposes, We are not having problems. We started growing in peat, and are currently growing in large grodans. Our facility is enormous and we are kicking around the idea of doing one small room as a premium grade product (although to date we have been pretty pleased with what we have been producing)

 

[Scallywagg]

My best suggestion is talk to some large scale super soil people. I haven't seen it yet indoors. Most everyone I know still using soil in warehouses are using something like 707, ocean forest, or buying bulk from a supplier like B.A.S. The amount of time and labor involved is the deal killer. Outdoors I understand. Indoors on multi crop flips and year. You would almost have to employee people just to mix and tend soil. Not to mention the amount of room you would need to let the soil cook depending on the plant count and # of lights. Why you just buy it from a processor and have it delivered. Cuts all of that out of the picture.

I started commercial growing in Las Vegas, and at the time Greenlife productions was the only one doing a no-till super soil. They seemed to be doing a pretty good job (I liked the quality of their product) however I dont know them. Someone else suggested looking up build a soil which I plan on doing.

 

[cemchris]

Bro I have zero clue about your business, market, model, # of employees, lights, buildings, how long you have been in business, competition, testing requirements ect. This is all going off general statements and vague info. I'm not trying to tell you how it is and by no means am I claiming I'm weed jesus and already know everything. There are way to many conceded "master growers" like that in this industry already filling that role. Just throwing out what Ive seen time and time again.

Just for info purposes, We are not having problems. We started growing in peat, and are currently growing in large grodans. Our facility is enormous and we are kicking around the idea of doing one small room as a premium grade product (although to date we have been pretty pleased with what we have been producing)

I understand that approach. Ultimately your market dictates that. Lol that info from the get go would have been helpful. Something like 40 lights wouldnt be too much of a chore. More then that you might wanna start looking to buy it already mixed from someone. Just be real careful where you get your materials and bases because if they are testing for heavy metals in your market you might fail that test if you arent careful. Same thing goes for nutes also tho. Why we always had to get raw salts tested before using them. Batches are sometimes not consistent. If you are in Cali or Oregon it's a pretty safe bet if bought in state that it has already been tested but might want to just for the peace of mind still. That would be my only worry about mixing my own soil minus the labor.

I started commercial growing in Las Vegas, and at the time Greenlife productions was the only one doing a no-till super soil. They seemed to be doing a pretty good job (I liked the quality of their product) however I dont know them. Someone else suggested looking up build a soil which I plan on doing.

Build a Soil (B.A.S.) is from out here in CO. Couple of people use them in warehouses and lots of the OD and greenhouse people in Pueblo use them. Nice since you can buy lots of bulk.

 

[greengenes44]

Greengenes, that is why I switched to SS. It is just so much easier during the grow. (I havent posted pics here yet but i'll try) This was my last grow. This plant is way bigger than I typically flower with. Towards the end it really needed more nutes, I tried some teas but I think it was to little to late. I think It was just in the pot to long before I flowered (i was waiting on one more plant) It was about 5 feet wide. Yeild was great thoughView attachment 903817

That's a good looking girl there. As for needing nutes towards the end of cycle, I top off with more ss here and there. That usually works great. And being that the ss is organic, I don't flush either. Keep me posted on your grow, looks nice.

 

[Sloptopp]

There isnt any specifically in super soil. Cause super soil isnt an industry thing. It's just something backyard gardeners made up an pretent is the best thing since sliced bread.

The only studies you will find are organic vs non organic fertilizers. If you're an organic grower, I suggest not reading the studies. You wont like what they say.

living soil is recreating a living soil food web, its not something that "garders just made up in their backyard" we've been growing like this forever, and organic growing is pennies to the dollar compared to bottle feeding and other methods. if you wanna see organic growing on a commercial scale id be more than happy to send you pictures of multiple growers doing it right and saving way more money and producing higher yields in weight and cannabinoid production. Just because its just now being accepted into cannabis growing doesn't mean its not better
-- P.S. I grow commercially and organic

 

[Sloptopp]

A simple 3 part mix
1 part sphagnum peat moss
1 part worm castings
1 part good compost

Then just add some kelp meal, glacial rock dust, red wiggler worms, nightcrawler worms, and some cover crop seed.
You can build the soil hella cheap if you use local sources. I have been getting premium mushroom compost from a mushroom farm for 11$ a yard

Also add something to aereated the soil like coco or perlite

 

[Sloptopp]

First question. Is the quality bad or the yield shitty? Why switch? Reason I ask is why are you trying to give the "head" grower tips or ideas. Not sure how long you have been working in the industry but keep that shit to yourself unless someone pays for you to be in that position or you do the right thing and consult.

If you want to bring something like that to the table figure out how much ( I assume you are already using soil) you are using on a per cycle basis from start to finish and the cost and compare it to super soil cost plus the labor and machinery you will need to mix up large scale batches. The answer is pretty simple from that standpoint. BTW this isnt looking this up online it's calling people and getting quotes on delivery and bulk pricing. Also if you plan to recycle it afterwards and the labor involved in that or not. All depends on scale and if you are indoors or greenhouse or outdoors. It's pretty easy to convince people on scale when the dollars makes sense. As long as YOU know what you are talking about in depth and not just scratching the surface or quoting a phrase someone else said AKA you should prob have been using super soil for a long time or on a large scale to make a suggestion like that and you aren't green behind the ears. I have seen a lot of people talk the talk but when it came time to walk they got their legs nawed off by a rabid beaver and are now dragging themselves everywhere.

Super soil is bro science to a point. The is plenty of science and testing/research on organic soil. Not specifically on super soil. It's just a recipe that was copied and tweaked a little to call it's own. The base recipe was being used and tweaked by Vic High for years. No telling if he was going off testing and analysis but from what I remember he had a pretty long write up of trail and error over years getting it to where he wanted it, not to say he already didn't have many years under his belt mixing soil. This was quite a while ago.

Living soil is not "bro science" all living soil is doing is creating a diversity in microbes and making nutrients plant available. the idea is to make the nutrients plant available and your trees will take up what it needs their is nothing bro science about that. that how all plants thrive essentially.

 

[Sloptopp]

living soil is recreating a living soil food web, its not something that "garders just made up in their backyard" we've been growing like this forever, and organic growing is pennies to the dollar compared to bottle feeding and other methods. if you wanna see organic growing on a commercial scale id be more than happy to send you pictures of multiple growers doing it right and saving way more money and producing higher yields in weight and cannabinoid production. Just because its just now being accepted into cannabis growing doesn't mean its not better
-- P.S. I grow commercially and organic

Also their is copious amount of research on organic growing I suggest you research Jeff lowinsfield maybe you can learn a thing or two

 

[BigCube]

living soil is recreating a living soil food web, its not something that "garders just made up in their backyard" we've been growing like this forever, and organic growing is pennies to the dollar compared to bottle feeding and other methods. if you wanna see organic growing on a commercial scale id be more than happy to send you pictures of multiple growers doing it right and saving way more money and producing higher yields in weight and cannabinoid production. Just because its just now being accepted into cannabis growing doesn't mean its not better
-- P.S. I grow commercially and organic

Yeah, I dont care..

Nothing you said has anything to do with what I said.

Supersoil is a made up marketing term.
Normally scientific studies dont test niche marketing. They would just call it what its. Organic fortified soil.

Anyways. Have fun. I have no interest in inferior growing techniques. I just answered a question. I'm not in to arguing nonsense.

Good luck with whatever you want to do!

 

[Sloptopp]

Yeah, I dont care..

Nothing you said has anything to do with what I said.

Supersoil is a made up marketing term.
Normally scientific studies dont test niche marketing. They would just call it what its. Organic fortified soil.

Anyways. Have fun. I have no interest in inferior growing techniques. I just answered a question. I'm not in to arguing nonsense.

Good luck with whatever you want to do!

Lol Trust me I will, and you have fun growing synthetic mids lmao

 

[Sloptopp]

Lol Trust me I will, and you have fun growing synthetic mids lmao

and you obviously have done 0 research buddy so please keep irrelevant info of this form, he's wanting to learn about organic soil and you and your huge ego trying to crap on living soil when clearly you have no knowledge over it, whats hilarious is your over here over paying for bottled nutrients and organic growers making yall look silly and we pay a fraction of what yall pay