Need help. PM and working with a Partner

[GreenSpoon]

you siad you cut off spots the size of a thumb nail , im confused did you say the PM was on the buds?

and i would just like to say, i live in the PNW PM is everywhere most of the year, every bush, every tree, every shrub, and in the air i breath everyday. Dont make stuff up, PM doesnt do anything harmfull in normal amounts of exposure, its common sense, a lot of vitamin C will do bad things to your liver but its supposed to be good right? PM is bad because the spores dont die, and they will reproduce over and over till everything is dead, or make your pot harsh and hot(hot air constantly being breathed in while smoking plant matter can cause lung issues yes, so can burning leaves and inhaling the smoke, means nothing) and taste bad.

PM is bad for the gardner and smoker by preference to quality not a threat to your health, you will find zero documents connecting powdery mildew, which is everywhere in nature, to health issues

and eagle20aw is what i use to stay safe, plus new heppa filters on all intakes keep me as safe as can be, oh ya and sulfur burns between harvest in all rooms

 

[kolah]

I am so glad I started growing my own.

No thanks to anyones shit-ridden PM weed. I'll use my common sense and my personal integrity which is to grow the highest quality of PURELY organic MMJ.

I have no interest to debate it or argue about it.

I sure hope those of you who think PM MMJ is just fine that you let others know what they are getting. (and what chemicals you sprayed all over it)

oh..and BTW I hear there is a sale on old rotten tomatoes. Don't worry, they may (or may not) hurt you but they will taste a little funky. They got some wormy apples too.

 

[Seamaiden]

I'm sorry kolah, but your corollaries just don't match.

Have you ever eaten a slightly rotten tomato? I have. Wanna know what happens? It tastes bad. That's it.

Bad milk? Different story, and you won't find me arguing that it will cause no harm.

Do you ever see PM on your squashes or other veggies? Do you automatically toss them because you see some spores on the leaves? I sure don't, that's wasteful in my book.

I am the woman who cuts off the moldy bits from the cheese to get to the parts that are still good. I think it helps build our immunities to be in direct contact with that godawful earth (dust & dirt, with all its accoutrement molds, fungi, microbes, GERMS), and guess what--the research supports my position. I am also the woman who'll make her own yogurt in the microwave...! And I keep the culture going, oh my God!

:damnhippie: <--- yet probably like few other hippies you've ever known.

If you don't believe it's harmful to human beings, and you need a scientific paper for you to believe that breathing in any foreign contaminant is bad for you, then I think you should go do a simple experiment go breathe in a small handful of dust/dirt/mold/PM or just regular mildew. Almost anyone of those things being breathed in by a human being could cause problems ranging from sinus infection to basic allergies. I wish no one harm, but I think you need to use a little common sense sometimes. No offense seamaiden but imo your just grasping for straws, my article doesn't talk about PM or a direct infection, I didn't come to my conclusion based on that 1 article, I used common sense and experience(molds/mildews affect some ppl more than others). I also never claimed it would lead to a direct infection, I claimed that it is bad for humans/animals to be breathing it in, and that it would affect the taste of your herb. I don't need a scientific paper to tell me if I inhale in foreign spores of any kind it won't be good for my breathing. Unfortunately I'm certain most of us have tasted PM, before we learned to produce our own quality meds.

Whoa... seriously? ANY 'contaminant'? You mean like, say... pot smoke?

You're not making a very convincing argument right now, and you should know that I can and do debate issues with my doctor(s) on an equal level. That means you're gonna have to step up your game and not make such basic mistakes in logic and reasoning as you've made above.

There is a growing body of good evidence, scientifically based, cited even, that demonstrates that pot smoke can actually be beneficial (except in extreme cases, i.e. very heavy users). It has been shown to shrink lung tumors, and does not automatically increase the user's chances of developing lung cancer when used alone.

Common sense isn't the same for everyone. I like to use my critical thinking skills instead of making automatic assumptions. This is one area where I've looked into it, trying to learn definitively, and I'm reporting back what I've found. You can use Google Scholar, too, ya know. I still assert that simple ingestion of the PM fungi isn't known to cause an infection *of* PM fungi in humans. There seems to be no mechanism for this fungi to become established in humans. If you can find a paper, I'm happy to read it and become better informed.

Btw, you *do* happen to know that the air around you is already LOADED with a shit-ton (this is a scientific term) of stuff like, for example, powdery mildew spores, right?

 

[putembk]

Why don't we start a thread then on who would knowingly smoke pm infected meds. Put me down for a NO!!

Sorry maiden, but there may be no proof that pm is harmful but I would rather mitigate it than smoke it.

I have had it and my conscience would NOT allow me or my patients to ingest it. I hated doing it because of all the effort put forth but I threw it out. I'm glad I grow my own so I know exactly what I'm smoking.

This argument could and I am sure will go on and on, but this is another old hippie that has learned how to deal with and avoid it.

 

[Aerojoe]

I have to agree w/ putembk, put me down for no also. I'm not trying to debate whether it will or won't infect human beings. I have no evidence for it or the contrary(maybe you have some to share w/ us sea?). I'm against it because I think/believe it is bad for you, and that whether you find it in food or meds, you should tell the people consuming it just in case it bothers them physically or just mentally. I admire your quest for knowledge/truth, but you must consider that others like bulldog74 might use your arguments as justification for not revealing truthfully to consumers about his PM ridden medicine, because he thinks it's not harmful to others.

 

[GreenSpoon]

Why don't we start a thread then on who would knowingly smoke pm infected meds. Put me down for a NO!!

Sorry maiden, but there may be no proof that pm is harmful but I would rather mitigate it than smoke it.

I have had it and my conscience would NOT allow me or my patients to ingest it. I hated doing it because of all the effort put forth but I threw it out. I'm glad I grow my own so I know exactly what I'm smoking.

This argument could and I am sure will go on and on, but this is another old hippie that has learned how to deal with and avoid it.

its a no, for everyone but to ignore a fact like where i have lived for almost 30 years PM is on every plant . . . .to be honest i seems more than lately, but i just atribute that to i didnt know what to notice before.

obviously quality product is dictated by its quality but to demonize PM as a health risk directly is a little off imo,that being said i dont think any patient that need MMJ to live comfortably should ever smoke PM bud, but for those with non compromised immune systems i see no issue other than preference as a being important

PM is not good and should be eradicated with extreme prejudice. In my early days i had to use green cure and then found sulfer treatments of rooms and mid veg dips in eagle20aw and filters, and worst case scnenerio use green cure to treat room as you flower(I try to not have to spray plants with it) and use zone for spot treatments of infected areas will reduce outbreaks, but if you dont have or cant use eagle20aw( as it is systemic with a life span of around 6 weeks in your plant) then you should think about starting over and clean your area with bleach and peroxide(wear a mask w/filter)


i re read my post and it came off as a PM sympathizer lol fact is i just had to deal with it so much and had other friends with same issues .. . . learning to treat and perceive outbreaks was necessary

a very smart farmer(not a pun) said an oz of prevention is worth pounds . . . .. .

 

[Seamaiden]

I have another question for all of you. There seems to be what appears to me a logical disconnect when you're concerned with fruiting bodies, but not the systemic infection. I see people often recommending, advocating, whatever, cutting off the apparently infected portions, or wiping them off, and moving on with the grow.

??

I'd rather smoke *my* PM-infected bud than almost anyone else's. I know two, maybe three people who do as I do and keep it 100% organic, 100% of the time. I'm also the one who burned about 12lbs of bud that was infected with a brown/black rot rather than try to do anything with it, because I didn't know what it was, but knew what it wasn't. So please don't assume I'm someone who advocates for using shit like, say, Eagle20, or going with a truly unknown/risky route casually. I have really and truly tried my very best to find documentation that supported my previous belief that ingesting PM-infected material, which means that I include material that's infected but not showing active fruiting bodies, would be harmful. It just made sense to me, so believe me, I understand where all of you are coming from.

But, since I couldn't find what I was looking for, I figured it was time to challenge my own long-held beliefs. <shrug>

 

[putembk]

This thread just keeps on ticken. First I would like to apologize to green punk for coming across as aggressive. Second, maiden you surprise me, I have been watching your posts since I first started on the farm and frankly I thought you would be on the other side of this argument. Remember, you carry a lot of respect on this forum and I am afraid that you are encouraging a beginner with pm to keep on doing what they are doing. Instead I think advice on how to mitigate pm would be more beneficial.

If you remember this thread started with a grower selling pm infected meds to a dispensary who will ultimately sell to unsuspecting patients. I think that is immoral and this practice should be discontinued.

Another point that has come out of this thread is are all plants infected with pm? And even if the pm is under control are we smoking pm. After thinking about it, that is a good question. I grow from clones and there is a good probability that they are infected, I just don't know it using my mitigation technique. I think seeds would still be virgin to pm but there is a good chance all others are infected.

I wish some of you breeders would chime in and give your opinion on this.

 

[ftwendy]

My understanding is that PM is systemic, however it does not infect the RNA of the plant. Subsequent generations (seeds) are susceptible to PM (like the parents), but they are not 'born' with it.

While we're at it, can somebody from the rainy portions of the country recommend some strains they have personally seen resist PM in an otherwise infected garden? That might help. Cheers, ftw

 

[nightfun]

well all know PM is bad ... but for the OP.. consider removing yourself from your partner and go on your own. I've been where you are and it made something fun turn into a lot of negative frustration. Having a partner is one of the hardest things to work with in my opinion.

 

[GreenSpoon]

edit im a tard nm



PM is a problem but i tend to agree with maiden and have only have used eagle when needing to save a cycle, due to poverty that did not go to MMJ patients, or strains and always at least 12 weeks before finish date, PM is not nearly as bad as some of the so called safe pesticides/miticides, some nutrient brands/blends, out there, it is the classic lesser of two evils, and everyone has a opinion/preference and everyone has the right to it as well

and coming from the PNW it something that we deal with or have had to deal with constantly, when PM is in the air you breath 10 months out of the year only preventatives and extremely controlled contact with room environments will make a difference(seeds help).......

........no air gets in unless its is filtered and i still sulfer every room every month(now) taking plants out if i have too, small rooms dont take long to treat with sulfur, i also spray my rooms with green cure throughout flower, not spraying plants directly but spraying the rooms surface.

 

[Seamaiden]

This thread just keeps on ticken. First I would like to apologize to green punk for coming across as aggressive. Second, maiden you surprise me, I have been watching your posts since I first started on the farm and frankly I thought you would be on the other side of this argument. Remember, you carry a lot of respect on this forum and I am afraid that you are encouraging a beginner with pm to keep on doing what they are doing. Instead I think advice on how to mitigate pm would be more beneficial.

If you remember this thread started with a grower selling pm infected meds to a dispensary who will ultimately sell to unsuspecting patients. I think that is immoral and this practice should be discontinued.

I'm still on the fence about it. I don't disagree with the idea that advice on how to mitigate PM is good, but I'm still left with the question, What if the plant is simply not demonstrating fruiting bodies? It's still infected, right?

I appreciate your points as well, however, I am not a moderator nor have any other special powers on this site. I do my best to share the knowledge I've gathered, as well as how one might use critical thinking skills to determine what's best for them. In other words, I'm simply saying two things; first, just because the fruiting bodies are gone doesn't mean the PM fungi isn't still within plant tissues, second, I question just how dangerous it is to ingest PM-infected material vs ingesting, say, Eagle20 treated material. Is it really better to ingest the E20 vs PM..? Not in my world.

Another point that has come out of this thread is are all plants infected with pm? And even if the pm is under control are we smoking pm. After thinking about it, that is a good question. I grow from clones and there is a good probability that they are infected, I just don't know it using my mitigation technique. I think seeds would still be virgin to pm but there is a good chance all others are infected.

I wish some of you breeders would chime in and give your opinion on this.

I don't know that all plants are infected with PM, but I do know that if you see fruiting bodies, you're seeing the last reproductive stage of the infection. Which means by default that the plant was already infected, it just took a while for fruiting bodies to express.

What if the plants are able to fight it off completely after an episode of fruiting bodies? What if they're exposed daily, and some can fight it off, while others can't? What does that mean in the larger context of use?

Making the whole thing worse is that we cannot really rely on any of these new labs that are popping up to test our weed. They're not regulated and use no common standard, because none has been established, and so the results one gets vary widely from lab to lab, let alone from plant to plant.

I honestly think these are all good questions.

 

[putembk]

All good points to think about. I also agree that some products like a systemic probably do more damage than good and I hear about people using them all the time. Too bad!!

Am spending the day in my trim room harvesting my latest strawdawg an see no visible sign of pm even though I know they are infected I just keep it dormant with quantum. I have been using the same mothers for a while now and PM mitigation is a necessary evil.

I may smoke it but at least I don't see it.

 

[Mississip Hip]

i would rather have PM than a partner.

Pm is easier to be rid of.

 

[The Joker]

Misinformation

Remember , there is a lot of stupidity repeated on the internet. People read it and repeat it.
You will often find that you are using a method in your garden with success and then read that it's terrible and will never work. But yet, you used it and it worked.

I've gotten rid of pm in my flower room and on my mother plants as well as vegging plants. For flowering plants, I've made hash out of the bud.

I've used two simple tools: hydrogen peroxide and Serenade.

Serenade is the only product I use after trying many others. My orange tree and roses both get hit pretty hard and weekly or biweekly sprays get rid of it.

PM travels by spore , and that means a single spore can bring it back. So in my experience , I fill a spray bottle with hydrogen peroxide and spray and wipe everything. Fans , lights, bulbs , ballasts, every single surface. The spray bottle gets places you can't with a washcloth or sponge. You can use bleach but you need a respirator and a hazmat suit. This works.

I've read once a plant has pm it will always have it. Yet, I've sprayed bonsai mothers with serenade and have had pm free clones and grows from those plants! I just got pm from a gifted clone. ( my fault , did not spray).
This is what worked for me based on working on my roses. Vegging plants only... Cut off all leaves with pm, don't care if it looks like a Charlie Brown Christmas. Spray with Serenade. Leave in the dark for at least 12 hours.
48 hours later, do it again. Leave then away from HID for at least 4 hours . Spray down with water to rinse the serenade.

Leaves that had pm you could not see will have pale green spots. Once new leaves start growing, cut the leaves with the spots off even if you don't see pm. Spray weekly with Serenade for at least 3 weeks.
Of course, you have disinfected the room as soon as you started treating your plants. Wipe the pots down too and spray the top of the soil.

The spaces for my mothers and veg spaces are small, so cleaning them is easy. I own a sulfur burner. I have yet to use it.

For my mother plants, I do take new clones ASAP . So far , I've never had it come back. If it were systemic, then those new clones from the treated mothers would have it. But so far no.

This has worked for me in cabs and a small grow room. For a larger op, it may need a different approach. I'm surprised no one has recommended Serenade concentrate.
My neighborhood is covered in PM, trees, bushes, it's everywhere. I breathe it all the time cutting roses, trimming magnolias etc. So far, I'm alive.

 

[budseyeveiw]

I'm sorry kolah, but your corollaries just don't match.

Have you ever eaten a slightly rotten tomato? I have. Wanna know what happens? It tastes bad. That's it.

Bad milk? Different story, and you won't find me arguing that it will cause no harm.

Do you ever see PM on your squashes or other veggies? Do you automatically toss them because you see some spores on the leaves? I sure don't, that's wasteful in my book.

I am the woman who cuts off the moldy bits from the cheese to get to the parts that are still good. I think it helps build our immunities to be in direct contact with that godawful earth (dust & dirt, with all its accoutrement molds, fungi, microbes, GERMS), and guess what--the research supports my position. I am also the woman who'll make her own yogurt in the microwave...! And I keep the culture going, oh my God!

:damnhippie: <--- yet probably like few other hippies you've ever known.

Whoa... seriously? ANY 'contaminant'? You mean like, say... pot smoke?

You're not making a very convincing argument right now, and you should know that I can and do debate issues with my doctor(s) on an equal level. That means you're gonna have to step up your game and not make such basic mistakes in logic and reasoning as you've made above.

There is a growing body of good evidence, scientifically based, cited even, that demonstrates that pot smoke can actually be beneficial (except in extreme cases, i.e. very heavy users). It has been shown to shrink lung tumors, and does not automatically increase the user's chances of developing lung cancer when used alone.

Common sense isn't the same for everyone. I like to use my critical thinking skills instead of making automatic assumptions. This is one area where I've looked into it, trying to learn definitively, and I'm reporting back what I've found. You can use Google Scholar, too, ya know. I still assert that simple ingestion of the PM fungi isn't known to cause an infection *of* PM fungi in humans. There seems to be no mechanism for this fungi to become established in humans. If you can find a paper, I'm happy to read it and become better informed.

Btw, you *do* happen to know that the air around you is already LOADED with a shit-ton (this is a scientific term) of stuff like, for example, powdery mildew spores, right?

ffs seamaiden not again???

ive actually been moved house before and my landlord was taken to court buy the department of enviromental health. you know why?? because the apartments he was renting out had mold outbreaks which are deemed dangerous to human health.
you need to stop with this silly argument about eagle 20 and pm.

you should be more worried about the fibre glass you are smoking seamaiden did it smoke good??

 

[green punk]

come on dude, put the flame thrower away

 

[budseyeveiw]

come on dude, put the flame thrower away

im not flamming bro, ive had my fair share of sea maidens lashings. if you are gonna go around slamming eagle20 and/or saying pm is not bad for human health, people are entitled to an opinion. and that is a genuine pic bro not a piss take.

 

[green punk]

Ive observed your battles. I find any of the pm threads interesting. Mostly, because I have been hacking for years and never saw the stuff until 09. Im talking in some real low tech indoor set ups.
Im mostly curious cause some of the old gardening books I have published in 40's and 50's say that it is species specific. So.. If that is the case the stuff on the roses is different then the cannabis. Right?
Also, in this thread some interesting points have been raised.

 

[budseyeveiw]

im not sure tbh, im pretty sure that alot of people bring it into their grow via an infected clone so it wouldnt suprise me. i quarentine any new cuts i get so ive never had a pm outbreak. i have recieved clones with it though