Need Help W/ Missing Living Soil Amendment

[jumpincactus]

In an effort to increase my CEC (cation exchange capacity) in my living soil I wanted to ask what other farmers are using as a clay amendment? It is common knowledge thru various studies that clay in some forms have an excellent CEC rating over many other soil components. Here is a chart of varous CEC ratings for various soil constituents . As you will note clay is very beneficial in CEC

Table 1. Normal Range of CEC Values for Common Color/Texture Soil Groups.
CEC in
Soil groups Examples meg/100g
-----------------------------------------------
Light colored sands Plainfield 3-5
Bloomfield

Dark colored sands Maumee 10-20
Gilford

Light colored loams and Clermont-Miami 10-20
silt loams Miami

Dark colored loams and Sidell 15-25
silt loams Gennesee

Dark colored silty clay Pewamo 30-40
loams and silty clays Hoytville

Organic soils Carlisle muck 50-100



My question is do any of you guys amend your living soil with clay and if so what kind and where do you source it from?

I also am aware that you have to tread lightly with clays as using too much can cause compaction issues around the rhizosphere which in counter productive. If you use clay, assisting me with mix ratio's will be appreciated

Is there a horticultural grade clay that can be used to improve my CEC. I'm hoping maybe @SeaF0ur or others growing organically will chime in. Peace

 

[oldskol4evr]

In an effort to increase my CEC (cation exchange capacity) in my living soil I wanted to ask what other farmers are using as a clay amendment? It is common knowledge thru various studies that clay in some forms have an excellent CEC rating over many other soil components. Here is a chart of varous CEC ratings for various soil constituents . As you will note clay is very beneficial in CEC

Table 1. Normal Range of CEC Values for Common Color/Texture Soil Groups.
CEC in
Soil groups Examples meg/100g
-----------------------------------------------
Light colored sands Plainfield 3-5
Bloomfield

Dark colored sands Maumee 10-20
Gilford

Light colored loams and Clermont-Miami 10-20
silt loams Miami

Dark colored loams and Sidell 15-25
silt loams Gennesee

Dark colored silty clay Pewamo 30-40
loams and silty clays Hoytville

Organic soils Carlisle muck 50-100



My question is do any of you guys amend your living soil with clay and if so what kind and where do you source it from?

I also am aware that you have to tread lightly with clays as using too much can cause compaction issues around the rhizosphere which in counter productive. If you use clay, assisting me with mix ratio's will be appreciated

Is there a horticultural grade clay that can be used to improve my CEC. I'm hoping maybe @SeaF0ur or others growing organically will chime in. Peace

you could go to your local concrete company and get the red iron ore clay,hell if you only need a little they will probally give you 5 gal bucket full,i love this clay for my outdoor garden,watermelons ,canaloupe,honey dew melons they all love it,have you done a test to see if you need any,i use the quart jar to get mine

 

[jumpincactus]

I appreciate your reply. I have a local company close by as a matter of fact. However I am a little concerned with the Fe content and how high it may be. I will have to do some more homework. I'm not in a hurry was considering using some clay in my next run/batch of ROLS

 

[oldskol4evr]

I appreciate your reply. I have a local company close by as a matter of fact. However I am a little concerned with the Fe content and how high it may be. I will have to do some more homework. I'm not in a hurry was considering using some clay in my next run/batch of ROLS

you bet friend

 

[leadsled]

An excessive amount of clay can make the soil heavy.
But If you have the proper mineral profile, the soil will have air even with clay in the soil.
Calcium bentonite has a high CEC and will work to increase CEC.
Tested and proven to work. Have done lab tests with and without adding clay.

 

[oldskol4evr]

i take a quart jar,add 1 cup of water,2tsp of calgon liquid soap,cup of soil in question,shake the crap out of jar,let sit 24 hours,dont disturbe ,you look at jar,your sand is on bottom,clay next,silt next,you will have a water line and then all your compost and stuff for air.
all 3 are equal then you can build your npk just with a cheap kit off ebay,you got to get equal parts of the 3 first,later your gonna add coco or perlite,i use rice hulls,that keeps the clay from going anerobic,just mine opinion here,

 

[Seamaiden]

In an effort to increase my CEC (cation exchange capacity) in my living soil I wanted to ask what other farmers are using as a clay amendment?

My native 'soil' which is a VERY heavy clay. Bereft of Ca. Because it is so heavy I only use very small amounts when making something like potting soil. For my beds I don't bother, I let the plants' roots reach the clay level. In AP I don't worry about it, I work the water like I work the water, which works well.

 

[Patanjali]

In an effort to increase my CEC (cation exchange capacity) in my living soil I wanted to ask what other farmers are using as a clay amendment? It is common knowledge thru various studies that clay in some forms have an excellent CEC rating over many other soil components. Here is a chart of varous CEC ratings for various soil constituents . As you will note clay is very beneficial in CEC

Table 1. Normal Range of CEC Values for Common Color/Texture Soil Groups.
CEC in
Soil groups Examples meg/100g
-----------------------------------------------
Light colored sands Plainfield 3-5
Bloomfield

Dark colored sands Maumee 10-20
Gilford

Light colored loams and Clermont-Miami 10-20
silt loams Miami

Dark colored loams and Sidell 15-25
silt loams Gennesee

Dark colored silty clay Pewamo 30-40
loams and silty clays Hoytville

Organic soils Carlisle muck 50-100



My question is do any of you guys amend your living soil with clay and if so what kind and where do you source it from?

I also am aware that you have to tread lightly with clays as using too much can cause compaction issues around the rhizosphere which in counter productive. If you use clay, assisting me with mix ratio's will be appreciated

Is there a horticultural grade clay that can be used to improve my CEC. I'm hoping maybe SeaF0ur or others growing organically will chime in. Peace

Pottery store - calcium bentonite. With that said, imo humus has plenty of CEC. Ditch the perlite for pumice or scoria and you will increase CEC even more. I have added a little native soil to mixes, but I don't find it necessary.

hth,

P-

 

[Homesteader]

Have you looked into zeolites as an alternative? Fedco carries it.

 

[Seamaiden]

Zeolite is used to ship freshwater fishes like koi and goldfish because it locks onto ammonia (adsorption, IIRC). That aspect could be helpful here.

 

[Homesteader]

I only just learned about zeolites but they are really fascinating.

From Fedco:
Zeolites These aluminosilicate lattices, derived from volcanic ash, hold up to 55% of their weight in water in the small cavities of their crystal structure. Negatively charged, the lattices hold the cations of essential elements. Zeolites can improve the productivity of any texture of soil, improving water and mineral retention in sandy soils and improving aeration and minimizing compaction in heavier soils. Add 2–3# for each 10# of potting soil. In gardens add 15–20#/100 sq ft to the top 6" before planting. Spread 1–2-1/2 tons/acre. Added to compost, zeolites retain ammonium ions and prevent their transformation to ammonia gases, keeping the nitrogen from escaping into the air. Water thoroughly after application so the zeolites will absorb the moisture, holding it in a thin film on their surfaces until needed. OMRI

 

[xavier7995]

Moving over to real full organics myself so been researching soil amendments like a madman, been talking with various people that know their dirt and from what I gather Bentonite Clay (calcium bentonite I am guessing) is great, as others have suggested.

 

[Patanjali]

I only just learned about zeolites but they are really fascinating.

From Fedco:
Zeolites These aluminosilicate lattices, derived from volcanic ash, hold up to 55% of their weight in water in the small cavities of their crystal structure. Negatively charged, the lattices hold the cations of essential elements. Zeolites can improve the productivity of any texture of soil, improving water and mineral retention in sandy soils and improving aeration and minimizing compaction in heavier soils. Add 2–3# for each 10# of potting soil. In gardens add 15–20#/100 sq ft to the top 6" before planting. Spread 1–2-1/2 tons/acre. Added to compost, zeolites retain ammonium ions and prevent their transformation to ammonia gases, keeping the nitrogen from escaping into the air. Water thoroughly after application so the zeolites will absorb the moisture, holding it in a thin film on their surfaces until needed. OMRI

To each their own, but I try and keep the aluminosilicates out of the soil as much as possible. I'm also curious if anyone has any reservation about using aluminosilicates and fulvic acid in the soil?

Peace,

P-

 

[Homesteader]

I certainly am curious as well. Is the concern being aluminum toxicity? What is the concern with fulvic? Or is the combination (reaction) of the two?

 

[xavier7995]

I would guess the reservations are because it is cancerous. I wouldn't put asbestos in my soil...

http://www.mesothelioma.com/mesothelioma/risk-factors/zeolite.htm

 

[pugliese63]

I've been considering using clay as an amendment and found this. Comes in various sizes. For an amendment it seems like it would be beneficial.

 

[Homesteader]

Definitly going to be looking into this much more. Thank you.
I believe the agricultural zeolites are clinoptilolite so therefore not carcinogenic.

"Only one of type of zeolite – erionite – has been specifically linked with mesothelioma."


Read more: http://www.mesothelioma.com/mesothelioma/risk-factors/zeolite.htm#ixzz49VB2Twg1

 

[jumpincactus]

To each their own, but I try and keep the aluminosilicates out of the soil as much as possible. I'm also curious if anyone has any reservation about using aluminosilicates and fulvic acid in the soil?

Peace,

P-

I would also like so more input on your question as well.:D

 

[Patanjali]

I would also like so more input on your question as well.:D

I'm wondering what the possibility is of Fulvic acid chelating the aluminum? I don't know the specifics of how chelation works, so I'm real curious if anyone has any input?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelation

Peace!

P-

 

[Homesteader]

10. Does Zeolite “strip” Minerals from Fulvic and Humic?

Zeolite does not “strip” minerals from fulvic nor humic. The Zeolite molecule – like the fulvic and humic
molecule – is negatively-charged. Zeolite is actually very compatible with fulvic and humic. The humic and fulvic solution acts as a carrier transporting the Zeolite molecules into the body. Then, the negatively-charged zeolite molecules attract and bind to any positively-charged heavy-metals and toxins in the body allowing for safe elimination by the body's elimination systems.

Still looking in terms of soil

Taken from supremefulvic.com