New Caregiver Law

kuz · Sep 26, 2010

SoCoMMJ said:
No it is not.
Caregivers can only sell to patients that have them listed as caregiver.

Why do you say that? Is it because 1284 doesnt specifically define patient to patient sales? Neither did amendment 20, so do you believe its always been illegal or something changed because 1284?

sky high · Sep 26, 2010

SoCoMMJ said:
No it is not.
Caregivers can only sell to patients that have them listed as caregiver.

LEO goes by the number or NOTARIZED Change of Caregiver forms in possession.

Saying somebody is your caregiver does not make them one. Filling out, Notarizing, and Mailing a change of caregiver form does.

The internet is full of bad advice that can land you in jail. You realize that illegal sales are a felony, right?

Sales from MMC's are also felonies, if prosecuted...just like patient-to-patient sales could be felonies, if prosecuted BY THE FED.

the difference, and the sad irony in an MMC owner calling any patient out or giving 'advice" is linked directly to the fact that most MMC's are growing above Federal limits to supply themselves, and by doing so, are much higher on the "bust heirarchy of worth" financially, so it'll be an automatic >Barkowitz< for anyone caught with their name on those forms..'er..a..."speeding".

As far as what you say above. Wrong. 1284 says you only have to furnish the names and card #'s of your patients when requested by LEO...not notarized copies of any of their paperwork (100% confidential and NOT for LEO's eyes).

After that, it's up to the pigglies and the CDPHE to wade through the PILES of mail to find yer info and verify the names/numbers you furnished. Nowhere does it say you must give away your patients personal info to the cops!!

Talk about BAD advice!

In the end, everything you and I and everyone else is doing is illegal. That "I'm legal and yer not" high horse jus' don't ride here.:banana1sv6:

alpine dank · Sep 26, 2010

"In the end, everything you and I and everyone else is doing is illegal."

Bing f'n O Sky! Seems like people all too often forget that Feddies don't give two squats whether You got card or not. In their eyes we all just breakin the law. period.

TurboAllWD · Sep 26, 2010

sky high said:
In the end, everything you and I and everyone else is doing is illegal. That "I'm legal and yer not" high horse jus' don't ride here.:banana1sv6:

That's the truth, cancom is flooded with that kind of crap from him and the releaf center.

sky high · Sep 26, 2010

kuz said:
Why do you say that? Is it because 1284 doesnt specifically define patient to patient sales? Neither did amendment 20, so do you believe its always been illegal or something changed because 1284?

1284 is an ATTEMPT to change A20's allowance for patient-to-patient sales. 1284 >does< contain verbiage that attempts to limit sales to your 5 patients.

I believe the key is whether such a non-voter-approved change is truly legal/"constitutional" and whether the State can merely pick and choose the parts of the Amendment they want to take forward. Keep in mind that the SAME sentence that says sales are OK is the SAME sentence (reverse affirmation, i believe it is called) that includes the word "dispense".

ah...... such fun. Wot a mess!

carry on, kids. Bets are still $250 and there are winning hands bein' played multiple times per day. Fuck "the house"....this is a private game! Same as it ever was!;)

SoCoMMJ · Sep 27, 2010

Honestly, I could care less if you are selling tons into the black market. More power to ya!

I am simply trying to correct "legal advice" that can lead the unknowing into trouble. The newly implemented laws are more than slightly confusing. Having paid thousands to lawyers, I feel that by sharing maybe we can keep somebody out of jail. If you don't care about the laws that is one thing, but please be careful not to misinform somebody that might be trying to conform.

Sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intent.
Carry on...

J-fly · Sep 27, 2010

kuz said:
Why do you say that? Is it because 1284 doesnt specifically define patient to patient sales? Neither did amendment 20, so do you believe its always been illegal or something changed because 1284?

I would guess socommj works at a dispesnsary. This is what all dispensary owners will tell people. Its a marketing ploy to make people think its only legal to buy medical marijuana at a dispensary. 1284 was designed by russian mafia dispensary owners, and the goverment gustapo to put the independent caregiver out of bussiness. Its all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

If im wrong about , socommj, i apologize in advance. Anyone with a medical card can sell to anyone else with a medical card as long as you stay within the limits.:RastaBong:

SoCoMMJ · Sep 27, 2010

kuz said:
Why do you say that? Is it because 1284 doesnt specifically define patient to patient sales? Neither did amendment 20, so do you believe its always been illegal or something changed because 1284?

You are correct that HB10-1284 does not specifically address patient to patient sales. However this is the part that has been interpreted to define [eliminate] patient to patient sales:

(2) THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY FURTHER DECLARES THAT IT IS
UNLAWFUL UNDER STATE LAW TO CULTIVATE, MANUFACTURE, DISTRIBUTE,
OR SELL MEDICAL MARIJUANA, EXCEPT IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE TERMS,
CONDITIONS, LIMITATIONS, AND RESTRICTIONS IN SECTION 14 OF ARTICLE
XVIII OF THE STATE CONSTITUTION AND THIS ARTICLE OR WHEN ACTING AS
A PRIMARY CAREGIVER IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE TERMS, CONDITIONS,
LIMITATIONS, AND RESTRICTIONS OF SECTION 25-1.5-106, C.R.S.

Since only sales by Caregivers, Infused Product Manufacturers , and MMCs is covered in the law, then patient to patient is not.

However, there is some dispute in that Amendment 20 authorizes sale in general:

(d) Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions, no person, including a patient or primary care-giver, shall be entitled to the protection of this section for his or her acquisition, possession, manufacture, production, use, sale, distribution, dispensing, or transportation of marijuana for any use other than medical use.

So to quote the most used terms of high paid Medical Marijuana lawyers, "It's a gray area."

SoCoMMJ · Sep 27, 2010

J-fly said:
I would guess socommj works at a dispesnsary. This is what all dispensary owners will tell people. Its a marketing ploy to make people think its only legal to buy medical marijuana at a dispensary. 1284 was designed by russian mafia dispensary owners, and the goverment gustapo to put the independent caregiver out of bussiness. Its all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

If im wrong about , socommj, i apologize in advance. Anyone with a medical card can sell to anyone else with a medical card as long as you stay within the limits.:RastaBong:

I assure you, it's not a marketing ploy. Why would I care if a patient sells to another patient? In a perfect world, anybody should be able to sell to anybody else without government intervention. I just don't want people going to jail that shouldn't have to.

For that matter, the whole retarded "registry" is nothing but a governmental mess. Caregivers seem to be fairly hostile to MMC's like we are the demons. We were all caregivers at one point too, remember?

I don't have any problem with caregivers and help out several. I do have a problem with people posting things like, "Anyone with a medical card can sell to anyone else with a medical card as long as you stay within the limits"

Can you please indicate which lawyer you received this legal interpretation from ?

I did not support HB10-1284 by any means. Regulation to clear up the gray areas of Amendment 20 yes, but this mess, no way in hell.

Because of that bill we was forced into a decision to cast a number of patients that we were caregivers for to the street, or pay up and sign our lives and rights over to the state.

oh and your Russian mafia claims are sooo 2009 :)

Contrary to what you claim, it is not ALWAYS about the money.

sky high · Sep 27, 2010

IMO, you supported 1284 by buying a license and falling into place as a minion of the State.

Texas Kid · Sep 27, 2010

Playing by the rules, or eventual rules, doesn't mean you support anything, just means your playing by the rules.....following your thought, everyone with a medical card supports Ammendment 20 and 1284 just for paricipating in the state program.

Gotta red card? you support all this as well....

Tex

sky high · Sep 27, 2010

SoCoMMJ said:
Honestly, I could care less if you are selling tons into the black market. More power to ya!

I am simply trying to correct "legal advice" that can lead the unknowing into trouble. The newly implemented laws are more than slightly confusing. Having paid thousands to lawyers, I feel that by sharing maybe we can keep somebody out of jail. If you don't care about the laws that is one thing, but please be careful not to misinform somebody that might be trying to conform.

Sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intent.
Carry on...

No one is going to jail.

And if they do, my guess is that they won't start at the bottom with the patient list, they will start at the top with the "MMC/edible/optional premise" license holders because they are the ones growing and selling the majority of the marijuana in Colorado and are the people who have the most capital to take in forfieture.

you made it easy. you gave them your life on paper.

As far as your legal advice.... appreciated, but not needed.

Again, WE ARE ALL ILLEGAL. ALL OF US.

some just have their ass hangin out a bit father than others, that's all....

and it isn't the guy secretly selling bags under the table to his friends. LOL

be well

s h

sky high · Sep 27, 2010

I supported A20 by VOTING for it.

1284 is the "Johnny-Come-Lately" law for the folks who only came out after they heard it was safe to play.

My VOTE didn't support it, nor did I pay into the pool to support it.

Saying I support 1284 because I have a card I have had for 7 years BEFORE it and the rest of the circus came about is like saying you believe in air pollution merely because you live in Denver.....

Texas Kid · Sep 27, 2010

1284 regulates an industry, has nothing to do with Johnny come lately, Johnny has been here the entire time as you have, and well do what he does to survive and try and thrive in an increasingly diffecult legal enviroment..I am in alot on meetings with despensary owners and most of them are long time Colorado residence that have been caregivers and soldiers of the movement since the beginning as well, there is no us and them at least the way it is being presented here, we are all in this together goin forward and there is definately no goin back.

1284 and Ammendment 20, now and forever will be joined at the hip, it has already happened and not anything any one of us can do about it...except, embrace it and move forward.

It may suck to you but thats the way it is

If your not drivin a Prius, than you definately support pollution, I don't care where you live...lol sounds pretty silly to make that leap to me..

Tex

sky high · Sep 27, 2010

Drivin a Prius only means you pollute in a different way. Ever read about those batteries?

It's funny, all of these folks claim they were here fighting the fight all those years, yet I was #700 on the registry in 2004 and in 2008 i was # 2800 somthin'.... so they musta been good hiders 'cus the registries LOW #'s pre-2009 prove without a doubt that they never stepped up "before" holder said he wasn't comin.

yup..silly leaps abound. Look at thei MMJ program that was desinged for the sick and where we are now for proof. People "helping" people through profit.... quite the LEAP from the original intent of A20 and the voters who passed it, for sure.

must be a leap year.

haole · Sep 27, 2010

sky high said:
Drivin a Prius only means you pollute in a different way. Ever read about those batteries?

It's funny, all of these folks claim they were here fighting the fight all those years, yet I was #700 on the registry in 2004 and in 2008 i was # 2800 somthin'.... so they musta been good hiders 'cus the registries LOW #'s pre-2009 prove without a doubt that they never stepped up "before" holder said he wasn't comin.

yup..silly leaps abound. Look at thei MMJ program that was desinged for the sick and where we are now for proof. People "helping" people through profit.... quite the LEAP from the original intent of A20 and the voters who passed it, for sure.

must be a leap year.

I wonder how many of that first 2800 left cuz of 1284?? I know i did.... and Im pretty texas kid was not one of the first.

No offense intended tk.

sky high · Sep 27, 2010

yo haole.

The more important stat for me will be how many of these folks who bought their cards just to get high and have no medical need in the first place can really qualify for the program once the State really follows the laws and screens EVERY card /patient coming in as they did pre-2009.

Thankfully my county will put the dispensary model to a vote (before they zone it out of existence) so while I didn't have a chance to vote for 1284 as i did A20, I will have a (small) say in the long run, at least locally.

s h

BoCo Buds · Sep 27, 2010

Texas Kid said:
Playing by the rules, or eventual rules, doesn't mean you support anything, just means your playing by the rules.....

We've officially monetized mmj w 1284... it is now available for ownership & use as a control mechanism for wealth consolidation & power.

One clear way to counter this is to grow your own... if they don't come to get us first... then work the patient-to-patient model. We can better protect our wealth (& medications & liberties) between the ordinary, everyday people.

And I do bet they will go after some higher profile mmc's... the ones they don't like/don't play by the rules/don't fit in.

BUT, they will come for the CG's in large numbers... likely very quietly. The patient-to-patient model is the real threat... it is a market they cannot control. Jail em... that's what's coming down the line.

kuz · Sep 27, 2010

sky high said:
1284 is an ATTEMPT to change A20's allowance for patient-to-patient sales. 1284 >does< contain verbiage that attempts to limit sales to your 5 patients.

That is what it boils down to, I know its true because it was stated in the first versions of 1284. Its is an attempt to get rid of patient to patient sales, and to remove profit from the caregiver. Some may not like to hear that but it is what it is.

- no patient to patient sales
- cost of cultivation
- act of selling mmj isnt enough to qualify as caregiver
- patient cant have primary and be primary
- five patient limit.

If you take the above out of the bill then its just an attempt to put the skrews to the commercial side. Get up in front of the judge and try to convince him it costs hundreds of dollars an oz to grow, or use the "everybody else was doing it" excuse your just going to look really dumb. I cant just close my eyes and pretend that crap isnt in the bill.

Whether or not patient to patient sales are illegal is debatable but was clearly the goal. You can sell mmj to a specific patient that designates you primary as long as you dont make any money doing so, thats how it works like it or not.

Texas Kid · Sep 27, 2010

I came out here three years ago and about the only consideration for me was that I could continue growing meds without goin to jail, I looked at Cali and Oregon but for me Colorado made the most since and because of its proximity to alot of my resources back in Texas......everything since then has just been me adapting to the ever changing legal requirements here in Colorado to keep doin what I am doin and stay my ass out of jail.

Unique meds, helping patients, creating products, etc...are all just a by-product of my growing....glad it helps but that is not my primary mission....I grow for myself, its just the scale of what I do that ends up flowing into the medical community.

Tex

New Caregiver Law

New Caregiver Law

kuz

sky high

alpine dank

TurboAllWD

sky high

SoCoMMJ

J-fly

SoCoMMJ

SoCoMMJ

sky high

Texas Kid

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sky high

sky high

Texas Kid

Some guy with a light

sky high

haole

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BoCo Buds

kuz

Texas Kid

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New Caregiver Law

New Caregiver Law

kuz

sky high

alpine dank

TurboAllWD

sky high

SoCoMMJ

J-fly

SoCoMMJ

SoCoMMJ

sky high

Texas Kid

Some guy with a light

sky high

sky high

Texas Kid

Some guy with a light

sky high

haole

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BoCo Buds

kuz

Texas Kid

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