New Guy Needs Advice

[Disco Duck]

Well... I've been doing nothing but watch over the plants all weekend. They went into my system at about 1PM on Friday. I just took the pictures below right at 8PM, so this these pictures are after 2 days and 7 hours after being put in.

When I first got them home 3 had drooped over. I was worried about this, but assumed it was the stress of the trip in the car. After a few hours you could tell they were going to stand up, and they were all stood up after about 12 hours, but 2 plants had a leaf each that were browning after they stood back up.

I decided to use the full GH expert system and just go by their schedule, but weaker at first after all I've read. So I started with the exact seedling recipe but calculating it as 12 gallons of water when there are really 14. I also used only a 10ml level of concentration of Florablend because it said to start at 15 and reduce to 10 in "mild growth". I saw no way of removing, so I just went with the 10 level so I can add to the seedling forumla to create the mild growth formula. The PPH of just the 3 base nutes was 302, but it was 490 after the addatives (Diamond Nectar, Flora Blend, Floralicious, and FLora Nectar).

After the 3 drooping plants stood up, leaves on all 6 began turning a lighter green and some edges began to yellow. After spending most of the day reading I decided they were N deficient. I also suspected this because the seedling formula uses equal parts of the base 3 but the mild growth uses a lot more of the Gro bottle with the N. So at the beginning of day 2 I added everything to create a weakened version of the mild growth formula, but at about half strength. This was clearly what the plants had been wanting because the all turned green and started looking very healthy (execpt for a few brown parts from the early shock).

This morning they were starting to pale again, so I added more of the base 3 towards the full forumla (calculated at 12 gallons when there is actually 14)... and they quickly turned dark green and started pushing out new leaves. So right now I am at 824 PPM/5.8 PH with the exact GH expert mild growth formula minus 30ml Gro/15ml Micro/15ml Bloom (adding those would create the full strength GH formula for 12 gallons, but I actually have 14). Next time the plants seem to want more I will add the rest of the base nutes, but I am guessing that will be at least a few days. Later I can add the other 2 gallons worth if they seem to want even more. I will do a water change to change to the full veg formula when they are ready. I am high in nutes compared to most advice I have read for this stage, but they suffered without it and perked up as I increased it... so I carefully, thoughtfully, and slowly increased it until I wound up where I am now.

As for the light... I started it about 3.5 feet about the plants set to 280w. After 6 hours I increased to 400w. After 12 hours I increased to 600w. I was planning on leaving it high at 600w for a full day and gradually lowering it on day 3, but the plants seemed to be stretching up toward the light growing stem but not leaves to reach (one became particularly taller than the others), so I began lowering the full power light 2 inches per hour on day 2 until I got it down to 26" where it is now.

Here are some pictures of the plants after 2 days and 7 hours in the tent. I tried to get a good close up of the one with the brown areas on the leaves, but I don't think my cheap camera takes very good closeups.

 

[TrichromeFan]

Duck,
remember that these are fresh transplants. I think that 800ppm is way too high for that stage. Check out some of the posters on this site. Most are going with 400-500 ppm. The base nutes are all you should be running, unless you have something especially for rooting or transplanting. It will take time to see results. Clones need to start producing new leaves and general growth, before you can totally judge nute deficiencies. For now, just keep it light, foliar feed, and ease them into their new home. Once they start getting bigger, then you can hit them up with some increased strength.

 

[Disco Duck]

The PPM would only be 500-550 with just the base nutes. The rest is from the additives. I am just following the GH schedule to the letter, except calculating it at 12 gallons instead of 14. The plants were definately dying at 300 PPM of base nutes. When I added a little they got a little better, and when I added a little more they became truly healthy. They are doing great they way they are now. The only issue is that one plant has some light bleaching. It took me a while to figure out that's what it was, but I've raised the light up to about 2 1/2 feet now to help that one plant.

Right now water temp fluctuates between 68-70, air temp 82-88 (extremes only for a couple hours a day, usually 84-86). Light at 600w and at about 2 1/2' now , raised from 26" this morning. PPM 824, PH 5.8. I could pump out some solution and replace it with PH'd water to dilute it, but the plants were dying until I brought it up to where it is now. They really seem to want this level of nutes. But really, the base nutes are only about 500-550 and the rest comes from the addatives. The some of the addatives improve nutrient uptake, so maybe that is why they want 500 in base nutes instead of the 300 I was expecting.

 

[TrichromeFan]

Well,
just keep a close eye on them. Look for new growth. Also new top growth will be lighter green, normally. Just baby them till they start into showing that they are well adjusted to their new home. You tried the foliar feeding yet? At this stage, it is the quickest way to uptake nutrients, and see changes in health.

 

[Disco Duck]

Oh, i've been taking a look at them at least once an hour since I put them in. Checking the water 3 or 4 times a day too. The only problem I have now is the light bleaching on one of the plants. This plant has seemed very different from the others right from the beginning. It's shorter, wider, and a darker green than the others and always has been. The more they grow, the more different it looks. I am becomming more and more convinced it is a different strain they gave me by mistake. They had some Northern Lights and something else in the same tray and I think they might have accidentally given me one of those. This one has a few areas that are light bleached but I think it has stopped now that I brought the light back up to almost 3 feet.

Yes, I got a spray bottle and made a spray after your post last night. It is at 312 PPM of FloraGro at 5.9 PH. Should the PH be in the same range as the solution like I have it? How many times a day should I spray them? I have started spraying (3 squirts) them every 12 hours and it does seem to be making a difference.

Oh, and will the white light bleached areas turn green after a while if I have corrected the problem or are they bleached white permenantly?

 

[JACKMAYOFFER]

Raise your lights put them on the lowest setting and keep your ppms between 550 and 600. Did the clones have roots busting out of them when you put them in your system? If they did not have a strong root system all they are doing is fighting to stay alive and not growing.JACK

 

[Disco Duck]

Thanks Jack, I've spent a lot of time reading your two UC threads. The tent is really my learning tool in the hopes of someday having a basement with a tree growing UC system like you use. I could legally grow up to 18 plants without having to go commercial, so what you do is what I am reaching for. I want to stay legal and non-commercial in my own basement and your way is the best of I have seen for my needs.

I am going to go turn the light down and raise it all the way up.

Yes, the clones had roots sticking out of them when i put them in. I have also been hand watering the clay pellets twice per day for the first week. Someone who has experiences with Rainforests told me to hand water for the first few days if you put clones into 6" pots. So I use a turkey baster to suck up some solution from the res and water a ring around the plant about half-way between the plant and edge of the pot, then squirt a little on the cube.

How long should I wait before turning the light back up and lowering it back down?

Will the light bleaching (only a few small spots on 1 plant, other 5 look great) turn green again or should I expect it to stay as it is permenantly?

Finally, I am following the GH schedule which says to use some of the addatives. Without the addatives the PPM would be about 500, with them it is at about exactly 800. So I have been assuming I am at 500 on the base nutes, the addatives are other elements the plants can use and that is why they are not burning up. Am I on the right track with this or way off base?

 

[Seafrost]

Definately keep your ppm low in the 400-500 range especially at this stage of growth, they may look healthy now but feeding them that high for a long period of time will for sure take away from your quality and yield. Think of the plants as people, if you were a newborn you would like a medium to light feed(400-500), not a whole pizza and sub aka 900 ppms. Keep it simple.Thats the best advice i have for ya.

FROST:boogie:

 

[Disco Duck]

Plants grow fast. I'm really suprised by how fast plants grow. I just took these pictures at 3PM which is exactly 2 weeks and 2 hours since I put the tiny little clones in.

I only have about 2 feet of chain left to raise the light. How tall should I let them get before switching to flowering? How much taller will they get after I switch?

 

[Disco Duck]

The plants are doing amazing since I change the solution a few days ago. The first batch worked but they clearly didn't like it a lot. The second, switched to the full veg formula at about 60% strength just make them explode with big, perfectly deep green leaves. There is a runt of the litter, one of the plants that was bent over with stress from the drive home (the one that took the longest to recover). You can easily make out the little guy in the pictures above.

What I am worried about now is when to flip them to flowering. Right now most of the plants are about 10" tall. I have 46" between the base of the Rainforest and the light. Subtract 18" for space between the light and the tips of the plants, and I the plants can only be 28" tall.

Should I start flowering when the tallest plant is 14" or 12"? From what I've read it will "about double" in size during flowering. If I have 28" for plant hieght, what height should I start flowering at?

 

[TrichromeFan]

Duck,
Different strains have different amounts of stretch after they are flipped. Since this is your first with this strain, I would flip somewhere around 12" or so. I would rather error on slightly shorter, than to overgrow the area, lose light penetration, and possibly run into the hood. You can do some training if you like and go a bit bigger, but I wouldn't go too big till you get more familiar with your system and the strain that you are running. Hope this helps. By the way, the plants look good and healthy.

-TF

 

[Disco Duck]

Ok, cool, I was thinking the same thing. I don't mind being a little short and possibly wasting a few inches my first time since I have almost no idea what to expect. I will probably switch them tomorrow, then. 3 of the plants are just absolutely exploding and will probably be 12 inces after one more 20 hour day... it would be a really easy choice of which plant to take clones from if I was doing that, haha. They just love the full veg mix at about 60% strength, that showed me how the original mix wasn't very good for them once I saw the difference. I will do a lot better getting them started next time.

I have an evaporative cooler now, too. It did everything I wanted it too just by having it in the same room with the tent, it doesn't even need to be in the tent. Temps now 75-82 with the lights on and it's been over 90 outside. It raises humidity a lot more than I thought, but still at 55-65. From what I know I have everything about perfect except no C02 which I'm not messing with this time around.

Thanks for all the help, it's great to have confirmation of what you think you understand but aren't sure:-)

 

[Disco Duck]

How long is the transition period? These plants are supposed to flower in 9-11 weeks. I can't find much about the transition period anywhere. Do you use the transitition formula for the first 3 weeks after switching the lights? 2 weeks? I can't find much info about the transition anywhere.

 

[TrichromeFan]

Transition period? Do you mean the stretch period once flowering is started, or are you talking about keeping some veg formula for the first few weeks?

 

[Disco Duck]

Transition period? Do you mean the stretch period once flowering is started, or are you talking about keeping some veg formula for the first few weeks?

Yes, the schedule lists a "transition" formula and I've seen people in posts mention "3 phases" of veg, transition, and flower. How long do I use the transition mix before switching to bloom?

 

[TrichromeFan]

I have heard some people on here running a formula that still has a high nitrogen amount into the first 2-3 weeks of flowering. Some say, use till the plants finish their stretch period. I think that the whole point is to have more N in there to support that last big spurt of green growth. And N is the major nutrient that supports that. Hope that helps. You will get there. You have been doing better than many on their first run.

-TF

 

[Disco Duck]

I have heard some people on here running a formula that still has a high nitrogen amount into the first 2-3 weeks of flowering. Some say, use till the plants finish their stretch period. I think that the whole point is to have more N in there to support that last big spurt of green growth. And N is the major nutrient that supports that. Hope that helps. You will get there. You have been doing better than many on their first run.

-TF

Ok, so it is not a critically important thing, more of an optional thing that can help if you actually know what you are doing. I asked because I can find so little about it. Some people speak of "3 phases" of veg, transition, and bloom both others say they just switch right to the bloom formula when they switch the lights. I asked to decide between using the "transition" formula on the GH schedule for a week or two then changing water, or just using a slightly modified version of the bloom formula that can be added to later to create the bloom formula without having to change the water. It costs be about $25 in bottled RO water to change the water so I'd rather change as few times as possible.

Since some just switch right to bloom mix, I feel safe doing a "partial transition" mix like this...

GH Schedule says:

Transition 10/10/10 5/0/5/10/10/2.5/0
Bloom 5/10/15 0/0/5/10/10/5/0

So I am going to use...

5/10/10 0/0/5/10/10/2.5/0

This "homemade" transition mix is the bloom mix "leaning towards" the transition mix. After a week or two I can turn it into the full bloom mix by adding 5 GH Bloom and 2.5 Liguid Koolbloom. This seems like a good comprimise that eases the plants into the nute change without having to change the water.

 

[TrichromeFan]

How's the little ladies there, Duck?

 

[Disco Duck]

Actually I was just coming with pictures. I was too busy last night, so these pictures are 1 week and 1 day into flowering. My only worry is that they are growing too well. I am getting concerned that they are going to get too big.

I have 28 inches for plant hieight, leaving 18" of space between the light. I started 12/12 when the biggest plant was 12" tall, most others were 10-11 and the runt was 9. Today the big one is 20", the others are 18-19 and the runt is 16-17. It is looking very close and I really hope they don't get too big. They are still growing an inch a day and I only have 8 1/2" of chain left to raise the light.

Here are some pictures taken a few hours ago...

 

[Disco Duck]

Is there something I can do if the plants get too big? If they don't slow down and stop growing within a couple weeks they will be too tall.

Also, can anyone tell what strain this is by looking at it. It is supposed to be "pure lambs bread". I've read that what today is called "pure lambs bread" is more likely to be Lambs Bread x Skunk #1. Clones of this are going around Colorado, does anyone recognize it and have experience with it tell give me an idea of how tall they will get before they stop growing?