New Guy up to his Way Old Tricks

[ShutUpDonny]

Hello everyone!

I'm setting out on my first grow since college. What was back then a tremendously ineffective homemade 20 plant hydro system under HID has turned into an only slightly better-financed 5 plant soil operation under all fluoros in a 3x3x6 tent. It is, first and foremost, a learning scenario, and I'm crawling up that slope at the front of the bell curve. In other words I will probably do many stupid things so PLEASE feel free to offer any guidance. It would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ShutUpDonny]

Here's some pix of the problems my children are exhibiting:

N deficiency, yeah? Help me, Obi-wans...

 

[ShutUpDonny]

Continued from this thread:

Sayeth Seamaiden:

No complications, Donny, I just don't want *my* photos plastered with the farm's logo. I upload pix into specific threads when I remember, feel the need, or whatever.

I don't use vermiculite, I hate the stuff. It holds onto water like a mofo. But if you're in a dry area or need that water-holding capability, keep it in there. I would decrease the ratio of perlite, too, or get rid of it altogether in favor of rice or peanut hulls (I use rice hulls) as they're not only a fraction of the cost of perlite, they're renewable and sustainable as an agricultural byproduct. Plus, they add potassium silicate as they decompose. Still, I'm not sure I would make my soil mix comprised of 30% rice hulls, that's an awful lot and I'd rather have that be minerals (dolomite lime, azomite, greensand, soft rock phosphate, that sort of stuff) and food sources for the microbes I'm going to guess you plan on culturing.

If it were my potting soil, it would be more like 70% potting soil + 20% castings + 10% rice hulls, with amendments added in for richness, smoothness and flavor. And so I get a cookie.

You should know that if you inoculate with those microbes, first it takes a good while for them to become established, and that you can kill them if you proceed to use chemical salt-based fertilizers at too strong a strength (basically, make sure no value of NPK is over 10%).

It's been so long since I've had a cookie.
__________________
Chop wood, carry water.

 

[Seamaiden]

You've got to give more information. What's the media mix they're planted in? What's the environment like? How often watering and/or feeding?

Off the bat, though, at first glance I'd say they're cold before they're hungry, and rather overwatered. You cannot feed a plant in that condition. Warm them up, especially the roots, and let the soil, assuming that *is* soil and not a soilless mix, dry out a good bit before addressing them again. With some soilless mixes drying out too much can be a bad thing and cause other problems.

Make sure that the ambient temps are in at least the mid-70s, in my world they like it warmer, especially when they're young, around 78F-80F, with a relative humidity (RH) of around 65%, less or more is ok, but make sure the AIR is circulating well if it's higher, ok?

Do you feel that's got you started off, a direction to go? Overwatering and overfeeding are, I would say, two of the most common mistakes made by new growers. Just like new fishkeepers, the tendency is to love them to death. I quote Old Dougie when I say, "Get your hands outta tha GODDAMN TANK!!"

 

[ShutUpDonny]

Hahahaha now I feel guilty! I never shoulda brought up the damn cookies, mostly because now I want one, too : D

I'm in the Southwestern US, so unfortunately humidity and water retention are a bit of a concern. At least in theory. The plants are in a 3x3x6 tent, and the hygrometer usually keeps to the 50s when the humidifier is on, so it ain't that bad. I just worry that when I need to add more light it won't be so easy. I'm using all CFL for now, with 12 total T5 tubes for later, and when I plugged it all in to test it it immediately brought temps up into the 90s. Frankly it surprised me, as all anyone ever says about them is that fluoros are cool. Ahhhh, relativity. Ahhhh, contained light-tight spaces. Basically ahhhhh, ignorance!

I dig your awareness when it comes to media. I'm intending on sticking to organics for fertilizers, but had not even considered my options for being responsible with what I planted the seeds in. I've read a bit about coir, but heard that it is routinely laced with salts so I opted to steer clear. Peanut shells and rice hulls though, that's pretty cool! I can see on my friendly local hydro store's website that they don't offer either - where do you find such things? I may wait til next time as I still have a big bag of perlite, and I think transplanting has to occur sooner than later. But I really do like that idea.

I have dolomite lime to add this time, and I saw greensand and some kind of dried humic acid additive at the garden store yesterday, but most of those other amendments are unknown to me. I'll get reading.

As for the microbe colony, I have a container of EJ Oregonism which I'm planning on unleashing in my transplantation medium. That said, I know that mycorrhizae ain't exactly what you're referring to. How do I encourage the other little buggers to take up residence?

Continued biggups for all the advice, Seamaiden! I appreciate it even more than I need it, and I REALLY need it (didja see those pictures?!)!

 

[ShutUpDonny]

you're too fast for me!

Old Dougie? Is that anything like Old Greg? Boy I hope not... Point taken, though!

I water every 3 days, and just fed for the first time, maybe two hours before those photos. Other folks I showed those pix to were accusing me of neglect and starvation, so I applied a 25% application of PBP Grow.

It is indeed soil. 50%/30/10/10 potting soil/perlite/vermiculite/composted manure. Hey, I said soil, not GOOD soil.

Temps usually run in the 70s and low 80s. I have a tower fan blowing on them constantly, and a humidifier on roughly half the time (but if 65% is what I want I'll just leave it on). I do NOT have an active vent system though. Just using the tower fan to hopefully draw air in, and the rising hot air to vent itself out the top. Pretty half-assed, huh?

More questions? Bring em on!

 

[ShutUpDonny]

(25% meaning 1/4th of the recommended strength on the container, by the way)

 

[Seamaiden]

Top-dress with worm castings. Try to get the RH up, many people have found that hanging a very damp towel in their tents can help with that. Once the plants get bigger they'll be better able to control transpiration, but right now you want to help them a little bit. See if you can get it into the 60s and keep it there.

If their feet are warm enough they'll be demanding more food, they're not exactly doing that right now. The leaves don't appear to be limp, they appear to be curled inward and under. Look up vapor pressure deficit, it'll start to make more sense.

PBP is not organic. Assuming you have a healthy diet, your pee is. Start with 9 parts water to 1 part urine, make sure it's fresh. The Oregonism seems to be decent, but I've never scoped it myself, got a sample from a friend.

 

[ShutUpDonny]

And one more thing: those CFLs are about 4" above the plants. They produce almost no heat, so should I move them closer? I suspect you're not a fluoro aficionado, but wonder if you might have an opinion anyway.

 

[ShutUpDonny]

Shit, my last post disappeared...

Castings - check.
Urine - check.
86 stupid non-organic PBP and hopefully get a refund since my hydro guy misinformed me - check.
Wet towel - check, even if RH is at 60 now because...
Read about VPD - check.

So just to make sure I get it, VPD is my problem because low RH makes plants close their stomata. This happens so they don't dehydrate, and makes them avert their leaves from the light (which is what the curling down is all about). But it ALSO means that they can't pull in as much CO2 because of the closed stomata, so they photosynthesize less and therefore grow less.

That makes more sense than what I posted the first time, anyway. Pretty confident I really do get it now.

Thanks Seamaiden!

 

[Seamaiden]

And one more thing: those CFLs are about 4" above the plants. They produce almost no heat, so should I move them closer? I suspect you're not a fluoro aficionado, but wonder if you might have an opinion anyway.

You can put them right up in your girls' grills, but be careful, as the plants have a real tendency to grow right into them. Not so difficult to detangle if we're talkin' tubes, but CFLs can be a little more tricky.

Our house is lit primarily by CFLs. They're not so great to dispose of, but the energy savings are significant. And, back when I started my very first reef tank I used banks of shop lights. I grew mostly softies and LPS corals, but also had a giant clam and some SPS.

 

[ShutUpDonny]

Coral is beautiful, and I'd love to have a tank or two to look at in my house. I've done a bunch of diving in the Gulf and in SE Asia, and while everyone else is freaking out over sharks or turtles or what have you, I always prefer to have my mask right up to the reef. The little things are where the beauty lies as far as I'm concerned. Sounds like a pretty sweet household you got going on!

So hulls of any kind are a no-go around here, at least as far as I've been able to find. One person spoke of the possibility of getting pecan hulls in the spring, though most of the shops are cutting back on stock in preparation for winter. So unless you think adding coir is a good idea, I'm going to move ahead tomorrow with potting soil, castings, and lameass perlite. I will also mix in some dolomite, myco, and some dried humate and greensand I was able to dig up.

So even with the towel RH is still right around 60%. I need to go into town anyway, so I think I'll just pick up another humidifier and hopefully be done with the issue. This really IS like having kids!

 

[Seamaiden]

Yeah, no kidding! Except the plants NEVER tell you, "Mom, I'm bored."

Of course, every child only utters that phrase around me ONCE. I'm very creative, and there are always chores around to take away the boredom.

 

[ShutUpDonny]

Hahahaha that takes me back to my childhood. One of parenting's great secret weapons!

I got the new humidifier set up - if anything it works too well. I had it on for 15min and RH was up to 80%! I tell ya, this is all a great exercise in trying to find my center and not overreact. Anyway, got it stabilized by opening vents, so all systems are go for now. After a day+ of humid air the leaves are starting to straighten out a bit, so thank you big time for helping me with that issue. Just hope I didn't wait too long to ask for help!