New Hydroponic Instrumentation/automation Build

[DGP]

So, here goes another adventure:

Problem statement: Gardening in general (especially Indoor) and hydro can be labor intensive both from a monitoring standpoint (recording good daiy logs) as well as an automation standpoint.

Project Primary goal:
-Affordable data collection
-Affordable environment controls based on data inputs
-Data stream accessible from anywhere on the planet (assuming you have cell or wifi service and a device in your hand)

Detailed Goals:
-To have a stream of critical data that can be logged for up to a year or more that can be used for tracking the quality of a grow cycle as well as recording it for future comparisons or experimental changes.
-To use the data stream to run automated:
*ph adjustments
*Nutrient injection
*Turn ventilation on and off
*Turn cooling on and off
*Adjust any other variable needed for environmental control

We are in the very early prototyping phase but are currently measuring:

State of the light source (on or off and when it changed state) & luminosity of light source (currently lumens for reference but we are designing a PAR meter or estimated conversion based on specific frequency bands)
Air temperature of the grow area
Humidity of the grow area
Reservoir water temperature
Door open
Fan movement
PPM (tested but under refinment)

Future Sensing Opportunities:

Light height
Canopy height (for tracking relative growth rate)
Top off reservoir water quality (ph and ppm)

By default we also capture cooling cycles (very clearly shows in the data stream), which is interesting because I always wondered what my "duty cycle" was at any given time.

Our intent is to develop a full blown data collection and feedback/automation system that is simple and affordable enough for the average and especially the small grower even down to the home grower (like me). Our dream is to offer it as a turnkey system or as a kit where you build it yourself (with detailed instructions) or you use our software and source your own electronics from a detailed list.

The system uses Raspberry pi hardware along with readily available sensors. I am really digging the fact that my data is being logged for me every minute of the day. Also, very excited just to ponder all the things in the room that could be monitored and adjusted automatically.

It's the Internet of things in a real world application.

Pictures of our very much "breadboard" system, but hey it is working and gathering data! also, the software is working:). We already have a custom board that piggybacks on to the standard off the shelf Raspberry pi that gives us all the sensor and output connections we need. We also have an Ethernet controllable ac box that will eventually be a system with several 120 v outlets that can be programmed to turn on and off all sorts of systems based on measured data like the daily light cycles but also humidity, AC, heat, C02 or whatever. Limited only by the needs and imagination of the gardener.

Here is a data stream, please note there is a lot of noise caused by us being in the room working and sometimes interrupting the system. Also we have not added floating point functions so all measurements are whole numbers (nothing behind the decimal point) so the data looks a little choppy. Also we will add curve smoothing functions to the chart to make the data easier to read.

Second grow site monitor for our strawberry vertical farm (28 sites for everblooming berries):

 

[DGP]

Got the ph probe debugged today so in a short time the graph will be data logging ph 24/7. May have to recalibrate the probe first though (easy to do).

Also, built an TDS/ppm probe today and ordered the parts needed for the sensor electronics. did some digging and came up with a schematic for the sensor to look at tiny changes in conductivity. The Python script will then decode data that an A to D converter provides based on the conductivity measurement.

I am really excited to have water quality monitoring almost complete. Last night on the test bench the ph probe was working as well as my HM meter in lab calibration solutions at 4.0, 7.0 and 11.0.

Dee

Here is the probe we used (about $30 and ~$8 for the A to D converter).

 

[Buzzer777]

Impressive!!:)

 

[DGP]

The control system will be able to switch (through relays) a number of automated outlets. The outlets are self contained and only need outlet voltage to them by an AC cord or can be hard wired into the wall. Then the controller communicates with the outlet box via a standard cat 5e network cable (eventually we will have wireless control via transceivers in each module).

Dee

Here is and outlet box prototype.

EC/PPM probe prototype (uses nichrome wire probe elements to measure conductivity at a known distance apart) The test leads are exposed in the open area where the red colors heat shrink is:

 

[DGP]

One thing I was pondering last night is: If someone were to gather grow data that was fairly accurate and had good resolution one could develop a "grow standard".

Lets say someone uses lighting like LEDs that are also accurate and repeatable (no real lamp degradation issues). Well, then couldn't a formula or recipe be developed that another grower could follow and despite being inexperienced have a much higher chance of success? There will always be occasional variables like a sudden bug issue but from an environmental control situation if you have the ability to control your environment then given a specific strain someone should be able to deploy a grow, follow some basic instructions and let the system take care of the environment and controls. Wouldn't we eventually have enough data to help just about anyone be successful early on as a grower?

Also, with all that accurate data we could experiment with variables (design of experiments) to find the ones that make the biggest differences in yield. Good comprehensive data could help someone who has sorted their genetics to refine and adjust their grow environment cycle over cycle. I remember seeing a chart that shows temperature, humidity etc over the full cycle and how each thing like day/night temps and day/night humidity and ph drift was constantly changing through the grow cycle. What if we could replicate that and refine it for best yield? Yeah, that's the ticket, use science. I always like that t-shirt that says "stand back we are about to use science".

I know you always hear about tricks like leaving the lights out for a couple days before harvest or name your favorite trick.....how about real correlated data to tell us if it is real or a myth?

Anyway, just a thought......

Dee

 

[Buzzer777]

One thing I was pondering last night is: If someone were to gather grow data that was fairly accurate and had good resolution one could develop a "grow standard".

Lets say someone uses lighting like LEDs that are also accurate and repeatable (no real lamp degradation issues). Well, then couldn't a formula or recipe be developed that another grower could follow and despite being inexperienced have a much higher chance of success? There will always be occasional variables like a sudden bug issue but from an environmental control situation if you have the ability to control your environment then given a specific strain someone should be able to deploy a grow, follow some basic instructions and let the system take care of the environment and controls. Wouldn't we eventually have enough data to help just about anyone be successful early on as a grower?

Anyway, just a thought......

Dee

Great idea..the only problem that arises is the mutant or unexpected phenotype's reactions to certain stimulation.
ie: I grew 2x Big Blue Cheese from the same batch of seeds..one was very delicate and hard to feed..the other more robust and easy to care for..Took a bit to get it thru my skull, but eventually both turned out great. Had I had less experience (my data and research), I would not have been able to succeed, especially with the delicate one..

However when growing multiple clones from the same mom..the previous data is invaluable and helps us get the best yields and potency. Even then, there are always differences to account for.

 

[DGP]

Great idea..the only problem that arises is the mutant or unexpected phenotype's reactions to certain stimulation.
ie: I grew 2x Big Blue Cheese from the same batch of seeds..one was very delicate and hard to feed..the other more robust and easy to care for..Took a bit to get it thru my skull, but eventually both turned out great. Had I had less experience (my data and research), I would not have been able to succeed, especially with the delicate one..

However when growing multiple clones from the dame mom..the previous data is invaluable and helps us get the best yields and potency. Even then, there are always differences to account for.

That's why I said someone who has "sorted genetics". However, pheno variations in my grow have all seemed to be happy with similar conditions so it may give a grower a solid starting point. I have had a few girls lately where one of them needs more cal or mag than any of the others but general conditions were pretty close.

Thanks,

Dee

 

[PhatNuggz]

Dude!

Love your inquisitive outside the box mind

Ultimately, the problem arises when someone not trained in analog, experiences issues, for which they are ill-prepared to resolve

Have you seen the GEICO (or Progressive) commercial with 2 young boys who are stranded at night because their car has a flat tire? They are clueless as to how to change it. Growing is a lot more complex

That aside, you now have ~ 5 different threads. when do you sleep?

 

[DGP]

Dude!

Love your inquisitive outside the box mind

Ultimately, the problem arises when someone not trained in analog, experiences issues, for which they are ill-prepared to resolve

Have you seen the GEICO (or Progressive) commercial with 2 young boys who are stranded at night because their car has a flat tire? They are clueless as to how to change it. Growing is a lot more complex

That aside, you now have ~ 5 different threads. when do you sleep?

Yeah, I know it is really hard at first especially when someone has no experience raising any type of plant. I have only been growing 3 years but I am amazed how challenging it can be and how many things can and do go wrong.

For example: I have some weird ass thing going on in my current grow that I can't figure out but I am so close to harvest it may not be a big deal but yet another mystery:) Getting some odd color change in leaves that lead to the leaf drying up and dying (they get real brittle starting at the tips). The color and pattern don't match anything on the deficiency charts. So, it could be just end of cycle Fall like color change and leaf death related to the plant finishing but I don't remember seeing this in the last cycle. Kinda looks like chlorophyll leaving the leaves but IDK???. This is why I wish I had as much data (numbers, notes, photos) from the last few cycles so I can compare.

Thanks,

Dee

 

[DGP]

I like open source design work. We intend to make this project as "open source" as we can especially from a hardware standpoint. All the hardware we are using is readily available and inexpensive. So in the spirit of open source I also want to keep the technical development open and share all the things we learn, even when we are banging around bouncing off walls trying to solve a mystery.

Today's discoveries:
1. Portable ph meters (like ph test sticks) that use a battery for power are immune to the electrical noise in a recirculating Hydro setup. They read fairly stable, nicely repeatable measured values.

2. Ph meters that are powered by a micro-controller ARE subject to a lot of noise that is present in a RDWC system. We think it is a grounding issue and/or a ground loop issue. Since the Raspberry Pi is earth grounded there is a difference in ground quality between the water and earth. So we added an earth ground to the bucket system. We also added some capacitance to the ground of the Pi system to give it a slight filtering effect. after doing these ground mods, we also moved the ph sensor to a plant site bucket instead of the control bucket because the control bucket seems significantly more noisy than a plant site bucket. We are wondering if turbulence has an affect on the probes stability.

Without these adjustments the probe shows a real unstable output and bounces up and down .2 to .4 ph and with the adjustments it is well within tolerances at about +-.5 to .1 which seems fine. I doubt most ph meters are better than +-.5. We are doing hourly cross checks with a calibrated HM meter.

3. Something weird happened when I grounded the hydro water. Very soon after doing so the uptake of nutrients changed. Very perplexing and cannot prove a correlation or causation yet. We are just watching to see what this might mean.

Next features/mods we want to do:
1. Adding resolution behind the decimal point to temperature, humidity, etc to make the graphing less choppy

2. Add curve smoothing to the graphs as well to smooth them out and make them easier to read

3. Add EC/PPM probe sensing

4. Deploy several controllable AC outlets to the lights etc.

That's enough for now until we can get things stable and then move on to active environmental control like nutrient injection etc.

Dee

 

[DGP]

Here is a data stream showing the behavior of the ph sensor and the noise issue. All data is with grounding mods in place:

A=Probe in an open cup of water all night. Water is naturally drifting upwards by being in open air, but the signal is fairly clean.
B=Wild ass behavior of probe in control bucket with what we think is high levels of noise.
C=Smooth sensor behavior, probe in a plant site bucket where noise levels seem much more tolerable.
D=Noise that is unexplained but still not so bad I cant interpret the ph and it certainly tracks to +-.1 with my HM probe.

Interesting things the data shows in general: AC cycles, water temp and humidity tracking AC cycles. You can also very clearly see when the chiller is on and how hard it is or isn't working.

Dee

 

[DGP]

Experiencing a challenge. Somewhere we are picking up a fair bit of noise. When the AC kicks on it disturbs the ph sensors. So, we gotta look at the possibility of noise on the oncoming power to the instrument controllers or the possibility that there is electrical noise in the DWC water itself (nothing like a good mystery). Moving the probe around seems to effect the noise levels but I am still not sure where the noise is entering the system, could even be radiated EMI rather than conducted through the power lines or the water. Arrrrgh!

Putting a filter cap on the ground line to the water seems to help but will be on the hunt......

Dee

 

[Supermemo]

[QUOTE = "DGP, post: 2119305, член: 75567"] Харесва ми работата с отворен код. Ние възнамеряваме да направим този проект "отворен", както можем да направим, особено от хардуерна гледна точка. Целият хардуер, който използваме, е лесно достъпен и евтин. Така че, в духа на отворения код, аз също искам да запазя отвореното техническо развитие и да споделям всички неща, които научаваме, дори когато се блъскаме наоколо и се отбиваме от стените, опитвайки се да решим мистерия.

Днешните открития:
1. Портативните рН-метри (като ph тест-пръчки), които използват батерия за захранване, са имунизирани срещу електрическия шум при рециркулационната хидростройка. Те четат доста стабилни, добре възпроизводими измерени стойности.

2. Ph-метроните, които се захранват от микроконтролера, са подложени на много шум, който се намира в система RDWC. Смятаме, че това е въпрос на заземяване и / или въпрос за наземна линия. Тъй като Raspberry Pi е заземен, има разлика в качеството на земята между водата и земята. Така че ние добавихме земя към кофата. Също така добавихме някакъв капацитет към земята на системата Pi, за да й дадем лек филтриращ ефект. след като направихме тези земни модификации, премествахме също така PH сензора в кофа за място на централата, вместо в контролната кофа, защото контролната кофа изглежда значително по-шумна от кофата на централата. Чуди се дали турбуленцията оказва влияние върху стабилността на сондите.

Без тези настройки сондата показва реален нестабилен изход и отскача нагоре и надолу от 0,2 до 0,4 ph и с настройките е добре в границите на допустимите отклонения от около + - 5 до .1, което изглежда добре. Съмнявам се, че повечето ph метри са по-добри от + -. Правим часови кръстосани проверки с калибриран измервател на HM.

3. Нещо странно се случи, когато зазех хидро водата. Много скоро след това се променя приема на хранителни вещества. Много объркващо и все още не може да докаже връзка или причинно-следствена връзка. Просто наблюдаваме какво може да означава това.

Следващи функции / модове, които искаме да направим:
1. Добавяне на разделителна способност зад десетичната запетая до температура, влажност и т.н., за да направи графиката по-малко накъсана

2. Добавете изравняване на кривите към графиките, за да ги изгладите и да ги направите по-лесни за четене

3. Добавете сензор за EC / PPM сонда

4. Внедрете няколко контролируеми променливотокови изхода за осветлението и т.н.

Това е достатъчно, за да можем да постигнем стабилност и след това да продължим към активен контрол на околната среда като инжектиране на хранителни вещества и т.н.

Ди [/ цитат]
Тъй като ми предстои изграждане на нова хидропонна система на площ от 500 квадратни метра всички тези неща ще са ми от голяма полза . Аз съм от българия . Как мога да се запозная с принципа им на работа и да ги закупя ?

 

[PhatNuggz]

Yeah, I know it is really hard at first especially when someone has no experience raising any type of plant. I have only been growing 3 years but I am amazed how challenging it can be and how many things can and do go wrong.

For example: I have some weird ass thing going on in my current grow that I can't figure out but I am so close to harvest it may not be a big deal but yet another mystery:) Getting some odd color change in leaves that lead to the leaf drying up and dying (they get real brittle starting at the tips). The color and pattern don't match anything on the deficiency charts. So, it could be just end of cycle Fall like color change and leaf death related to the plant finishing but I don't remember seeing this in the last cycle. Kinda looks like chlorophyll leaving the leaves but IDK???. This is why I wish I had as much data (numbers, notes, photos) from the last few cycles so I can compare.

Thanks,

Dee

View attachment 792879

I know this is an old post, but did you look undeerneath? Looks like bugs sucking on your leafs

 

[DGP]

Still beta testing and now we have ordered custom circuit boards for the controllers, sensor hubs and remote 120V controllable outlets.

Still working on the noise issue. Now we have a contract to deploy into several large commercial grows so the pressure is on. Now it has to be productized!

Dee

 

[Shawnery]

Is it possible to run a ground to the bucket? Maybe this is really stupid but I'm not great with electricity.

 

[DGP]

Is it possible to run a ground to the bucket? Maybe this is really stupid but I'm not great with electricity.

Yeah, we did ground the hydro system and it did help but the noise problem is still there. Your point is a good one.

 

[Shawnery]

Inline noise filter? Shielded wiring?

 

[PhatNuggz]

looking way outside the box, electricity has a lot of noise some from emf/rfi. Consider a power line conditioner

Core Technologies makes passive devices for audio/video I have 2 of them for my audio and video systems. They make small ones that could work

 

[Toaster79]

Your noise could be comming from power supplies, ballasts, led drivers .... Try putting a ferrite core on the probe cable, see if it helps. Could also be the flow of the solution in the bucket messing with readings.

You're putting together something I've been dreaming of for quite some time. Rpi controlled grow room with a touch screen display and my own GUI. Too bad I don't have time for the code. Putting hardware together goes pretty quick unless one runs into trouble like yours.