newb breeder question about BX seeds

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D9420

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i get he whole F1,2,3's and the S1,2,3s
but i was just wondering how you actually get BX1,2,3's
are they more stable then just selective inbreeding
like i got Strawberry Diesel F4s they show 3 dominant pheno's 2 that i was hoping for and a third is alright but not worth keeping around. so when i pop more 4s im gonna make 5's using my fav 2 pheno's hopping to isolate those 2 pheno's into the next generation. and i got a
Cherry AK x SD F1s should i BX them to get them more stable.
im clueless in this department any breeder or person who knows any of this info. i would love to pic your brain and figure this out
thanks D9420 :cool0044:
 
CBF

CBF

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So if you only have bx'd beans you cannot do a further
bx with out the original clone.

untrue, you can BX any time you want, ex: select female from say the F2 gen. you can do the first bx with males from the F3. then do how ever many gens you want and do a second Bx back to any previous gen. it is still the second BX in the line breeding. does not have to be to the exact clone from the first BX. you also can use more then a single plant from any one gen.

aka
 
CBF

CBF

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should i BX them to get them more stable.
:

consecutive BXs with single parent pollinations will in very short order bottle neck your seedline, cause a loss of vigor, and produce mutant plants in a population.


use as many plants as possible in your BX, both male and female. if tryin to isolate a single trait ie: aroma, taste, head, in a selected plant, then a BX will work well, ime better then consecutive generations.

use the BX to fix a trait in the seedline, then filial gens selectin for those plants.

CBF
 
CBF

CBF

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heres a blurb from chimera on backcross breeding.

a peep here was somewhat uncomfortable with my response, and ill apologize for the untrue remark as it wasnt needed.

i do stand by my statement however on just when and how a BX can be accomplished. many peeps online in the scene, follow bros grimm cindy example in backcrossin and cubin. and yes in a cube you go back to the target plant(recurring parent) but as you can see goin from any generation, back to a previous generation at any point in line breeding is a backcross.

a backcross essentially is goin from one gen to a previous gen, no matter the number of plants.

CBF

Wow that is painful for me to read.... I must have been pretty stoned when I wrote that, now years ago. I'm glad at least that it's info that has spread a little knowledge and perspective into the community over the years.. I do however need to re-write it...

Here's a snipet on backcrossing from the breeding chapter I wrote for Jorge's most recent version of the bible.

Backcross Breeding –
A type of breeding that involves repeated crossing of progeny with one of the original parental genotypes; cannabis breeders most often cross progeny to the mother plant. This parent is known as the recurrent parent. The non-recurrent parent is called the donor parent. More widely, any time a generation is crossed to a previous generation, it is a form of backcross breeding. Backcross breeding has become one of the staple methods clandestine cannabis breeders use, mainly because it is a simple, rapid method when using greenhouses or grow
rooms, and requires only small populations. The principle goal of backcross breeding is to create a population of individuals derived mainly from the genetics of one single parent (the recurrent parent).

The donor parent is chosen based on a trait of interest that the recurrent parent lacks; the idea is to introgress this trait into the backcross population, such that the new population is comprised mainly of genetics from the recurrent parent, but also contains the genes responsible for the trait of interest from the donor parent.

The backcross method is a suitable scheme for adding new desirable traits to a mostly ideal, relatively true-breeding genotype. When embarking on a backcross breeding plan, the recurrent parent should be a highly acceptable or nearly ideal genotype (for example, an existing commercial cultivar or inbred line). The ideal traits considered for introgression into the new seed line should be simply inherited and easily scored for phenotype. The best donor parent must possess the desired trait, but should not be seriously deficient in other traits. Backcross line production is repeatable, if the same parents are used.

Backcross breeding is best used when adding simply inherited dominant traits that can easily be identified in the progeny of each generation (example 1). Recessive traits are more difficult to select for in backcross breeding, since their expression is masked by dominance in each backcross to the recurrent parent. An additional round of open pollination or sib-mating is needed after each backcross generation, to expose homozygous-recessive plants. Individuals showing the recessive condition are selected from F2 segregating generations and backcrossed to the recurrent parent (see example 2).

Example 1– Backcrossing: Incorporating a dominant trait

Step1– Recurrent Parent × Donor Parent
|
V
F1 Hybrid generation

Step 2 – Select desirable plants showing dominant trait, and hybridize selected plants to recurrent parent. The generation produced is denoted BC1 (some cannabis breeders break from botanical convention and denote this generation Bx1. BC1= Bx1).

Step 3 – Select plants from BC1 and hybridize with the recurrent parent; the resulting generation is denoted BC2.

Step 4 – Select plants from BC2 and hybridize with the recurrent parent; the resulting generation is denoted BC3.
.

Example 2 Backcrossing: Incorporating a recessive trait

Step1– Recurrent Parent × Donor Parent
|
V
F1 Hybrid generation

Step 2 – Select desirable plants, and create an F2 population via full sib-mating.

Step 3 – Select plants showing the desired recessive trait in the F2 generation, then hybridize selected F2-recessive plants to the recurrent parent. The generation produced is denoted BC1.

Step 3 – Select plants from BC1, and create a generation of F2 plants via sib-mating; the resulting generation can be denoted BC1F2

Step 4 – Select desirable BC1F2 plants showing the recessive condition, and hybridize with the recurrent parent; the resulting generation is denoted BC2.

Step 5 – Select plants from BC2, and create an F2 population via sib-mating; denote the resulting generation BC2F2.

Step 6 – Select plants showing the recessive condition from the BC2F2 generation, and hybridize to the recurrent parent; the resulting generation is denoted BC3.

Step 7 – Grow out BC3, select and sib-mate the most ideal candidates to create an F2 population, where plants showing the recessive condition are then selected and used as a basis for a new inbred, or open-pollinated seed line.

This new generation created from the F2 is a population that consists of, on average, ~93.7% of genes from the recurrent parent, and only ~6.3% of genes leftover from the donor parent. Most importantly, one should note that since only homozygous-recessives were chosen for mating in the BC3F2 generation, the entire resulting BC3F3 generation is homozygous for the recessive trait, and breeds true for this recessive trait. Our new population meets our breeding objective. It is a population derived mainly from the genetics of the recurrent parent, yet breeds true for our introgressed recessive trait.


Backcross derived lines are expected to be well-adapted to the environment in which they will be grown, which is another reason backcrossing is often used by cannabis breeders who operate indoors. Indoor grow rooms are easily replicated all over the world, so the grower is able to grow the plants in a similar environment in which they were bred. Progeny therefore need less extensive field-testing by the breeder across a wide range of environments.

If two or more characters are to be introgressed into a new seed line, these would usually be tracked in separate backcross programs, and the individual products would be combined in a final set of crosses after the new populations have been created by backcrossing.

The backcross scheme has specific drawbacks, however. When the recurrent parent is not very true-breeding, the resulting backcross generations segregate, and many of the traits deemed desirable to the line fail to be reproduced reliably. Another limitation of the backcross is that the “improved” variety differs only slightly from the recurrent parent (e.g., one trait). If multiple traits are to be introgressed into the new population, other techniques such as inbreeding or recurrent selection may be more rewarding.

Hope that's a little more clear......
Respectfully,
-Chimera
 
CBF

CBF

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Thanks,

That is interesting however because of the two differnet bx methods

1.continued bx to the original clone[cubing]
and
2.bx within the hybrid created and not bx'd back to the original clone

It makes it difficult to establish when one sees the word BX
to know which method of bx the breeder has used ...
but i guess thats science.

if you were to go by the strict definition of a BC, BX is actually incorrect as well, hehe

what you have said is correct as well. like i have said lots of peeps even myself for a time had always thought of a BC as always goin back to the clone/recurrent plant.


strawberry creme, had done 3 filial gens, then 2 straight BCs, and now takin the F7s, and goin back to the F2s, as a group not a single clone. which takes me to F8, and the 3rd BC in the seedline.

aka

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shepj

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subscribed just to look back at this. So glad you posted this thread bruh.
 

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