NFT and GH 3 part problems. HELP!

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G

Gordon

6
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Hi guys...

I was growing in a closet (20 lt nft and under 250w hps) for a few years using cana 2 part nutes and having quite nice grows. My water is very hard with ph around 7.5 - 7.9 and I am using phosphoric acid to bring it down. So till now it was piece of cake. Tap water with acid for ph around 5.8, nutes from A, nutes from B (following the directions from the bottles and reaching full strength at 2nd week of flowering), shake well and in the tank . I added only water with fixed ph when water level drops and change the mix every 10 days. Never use EC meter. PH was allways around 5.5 - 6.0 no mater how many liters of nutes was in the tank... Happy grows!

I stop the growing for a few years an last year I started it again. Although my nutes was way over their expiration day I made again 2 nice grows...

Then a friend gave me a growing tent with 600w hps and i immediately move my 3rd grow (4 x mohan ram) that was in the 2nd week of growing from the closet to the tent. He also gave me the GH flora 3 part nutes. I move my girls to their new house flush them from the cana grow nutes and put the GH following the GH table for dosage (full strenght), using the same amount of acid to my water (now ph 5.5 with nutes) and started the flowering.

Things can only get better i thought! HA! Silly grower!

The first 3 weeks was perfect! The girls have exactly the same looks as before - only much bigger :) - and that look was... perfect for me! But... since the end of the 2nd week i noticed that my girls was quite bigger than before and drink a lot of nutes... i filled up with water as usual... at the end of 3rd week they drink even more and 2 consequent days i find my tank at its lowest with the ph at that level at a very low 4.7! The next day I saw the first spots on a few fan leaves at lower branches.
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Since it was scheduled to change the nutes I made the change with fresh ones but with less acid (ph 5.9) so if the water level drops again to have higher ph than the 4.7. For the next 3 days things were stable. No new spots and the ph around 5.7. But the next day... disappointment!
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I immediately remove the nutes put water with ph 5.8 and start reading this forum! today is the 2nd day with plain water.. and I am very confused!

I really cant understand whats the problem! is it nute burn or some deficiency? I have to mention that the inner and lower leaves, those between the plants that dont have direct light on them are all good. no spots no problems at all.

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Can someone help me please! I need advice on how to fix this if its possible, and then some more advice on feeding plans (lucas or useless?) and if its possible to use them without an ec meter.

Thanks guys for reading all this!!!


ps> here i s a photo of the system!
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G

Gordon

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am i doing something wrong here in the forum? or there is no one that can help me? pls guys.....
 
F

FTWx561

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You first picture looks like it may be a Calcium deficiency. Since you have already been flushing I would refill and give the lucas formula a shot. I don't use GH and Lucas formula but anecdotal evidence on the web suggests that it is better than following the rates on the bottle. If you are having problems with the ratio you are using now it can't hurt to try. If I remember correctly you use 8ml micro and 16ml bloom per gallon.

I would suggest spending the money on a good ph/EC meter. It will be very hard to dial in you nutrient regimine otherwise. A good way to dial in a plant nutrients needs is to document the EC as your water level drops. If your EC raises as the water level drops then your plants are up taking water faster than nutrients. If your EC lowers as the water level drops then they are taking in more nutrients than water. Ideally you want your EC to stay stable as the water level drops showing that they are uptaking at the same rate. Getting it into that stable range will help with PH shifts as well.

How do your roots look?
 
G

Gordon

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hi, thanks for your answer :)
roots looks fine... as always... never had a root problem...
I know all the theory about ec meters etc... but since my previous setup was working and satisfying my needs without much effort, I thought that I could find a formula to work with the new one...

Anyway I was reading stuff at the net trying to find an answer and found a pdf (Garden Saver - Plant Troubleshooting - MynameStitch) with pics from problems... I agree that from those pics if the problem is a def then its Ca def.. but there are 2 other pics that looks like my problem. Those for Light burn or heat stress... I had my light 55-60 cm above the tallest plant before the problem and at 75 cm now... Is this ok? temps in tent are 25-27 day / 20-21 night...

But... the most serious thing that I discovered a few hours earlier is that the nutes that my friend gave me are WRONG!! :mad: Instead of grow-micro-bloom i have a grow-micro-mato (both red but... bloom is 0-5-4 while mato is 1-2-5).. so any formula is way off the specs with the stupid floramato...

just before I realize the nute thing I've had refill the tank with very light mix (useless formula)... So now I hope that it wont get worse for the next couple of days and meanwhile I'll find the time to go buy a florabloom...

:oops:
 
F

FTWx561

28
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For what it is worth if you are going to buy nutrients anyway I would do some research on Jack's Professional Hydroponic and Calcium Nitrate by JR Peters. There are a couple of us on The Farm and many elsewhere that have been running it with great success. It is extremely cheap compared to Hydrostore products. We are talking the difference between $3-$4 res changes and $.20 res changes.

Learning how to use raw salts and one of the many hydroponic calculators out there will really enlighten you on the needs of your plant mineral by mineral.

I still recomend getting an E.C. Meter. I wont dispute that you can get by without one, especially if you run the same strain for multiple grows and dial it in. That being said, not using one is flying blind. Everything you add and change is just a guess. With the amount of time and effort we put into this it makes sense to do it right. A meter can be had for as cheap as $20 on eBay for a Chinese knockoff piece of junk to $500 for a high end one. I love the Hanna combo ph/e.c/ppm/temp pen meters. They can be had for around $125-$180 depending on where you get it. They offer replaceable ph electrodes and are one of the few meters that allow you to change the e.c.-->ppm conversion factor and also the auto temperature coefficient. The conversion factor can be important when trying to repeat formulas from others in PPM form as there can be different readings from different meters depending on who made it.

If you have any questions about the Jack's after you do some research let me know and I'll do my best to answer.
 
G

Gordon

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Thanks for your advice my friend...
The problem is that I cant find a variety of hydro products here... hydro in retail stores are quite new, only 2-3 years. Before there was only online shopping from abroad!
So I have to choose from GH, AN, Hesi and Vitalink. That's it!
Tomorrow I will have the florabloom bottle and -finally- I'll start feeding with something good. Hope to save something from the crop and not throw everything to garbage (things are looking stable in tent)!

Regarding the EC meter -after reading all those things- I am almost convinced to buy one!! :cool:
I have a hanna ph meter and like it so I'll probably choose a hanna ec meter too.
 
K

kushtrees

591
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I cant say what the def is you got there if its Ca its one of the most extreme Ca issues ive ever seen. GH 3 part is great, but dont use lucas formula if you have hard water, lucas formula is meant for RO water. Im not sure how you know you have hard water without checking the ec/ppms, ph has no connection to how hard your water is. check your taps ppms if it is hard water, get a nutrient made for hard water i know they make hardwater micro grow bloom, and follow those instructions or if you can find desert squirels gh 3 part formula here in the forums try that its tailored to cannabis.

btw get a blue lab ec meter imo hanna sucks

id back off the light just a little, make sure your temps are at 75 F (sorry im too lazy to convert Celcius), get some fresh nutes, hell i dont like AN as a company but there sensi line nute profile is very very close to the 3-1-4 you want. make sure your ph is 5.8-6 and start your ec off at 1.2 and go up from there, i usually feed at 1.5-1.9 ec.

hope this helps id love to know what sort of issue that is looks extreme
 
SodaLicious

SodaLicious

533
43
I cant say what the def is you got there if its Ca its one of the most extreme Ca issues ive ever seen. GH 3 part is great, but dont use lucas formula if you have hard water, lucas formula is meant for RO water. Im not sure how you know you have hard water without checking the ec/ppms, ph has no connection to how hard your water is. check your taps ppms if it is hard water, get a nutrient made for hard water i know they make hardwater micro grow bloom, and follow those instructions or if you can find desert squirels gh 3 part formula here in the forums try that its tailored to cannabis.

btw get a blue lab ec meter imo hanna sucks

id back off the light just a little, make sure your temps are at 75 F (sorry im too lazy to convert Celcius), get some fresh nutes, hell i dont like AN as a company but there sensi line nute profile is very very close to the 3-1-4 you want. make sure your ph is 5.8-6 and start your ec off at 1.2 and go up from there, i usually feed at 1.5-1.9 ec.

hope this helps id love to know what sort of issue that is looks extreme


Hey can't find any info on this desert squirel's recipe. I can't even find him!
 
K

kushtrees

591
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DS is all over haha umm I think if you check the Under current forums there's a post in there about nute profiles and it might be in there...

I'm on my phone in class right now oops haha when I get to a computer I'll find it for everyone
 
G

Gordon

6
1
thanks for your advice kushtrees...
i know the difference between ph and ec... :rolleyes: And i know that my water is hard because i use an ec meter (10 years ago :D) to check it... it was around 0.6... I use the floramicro for hard water... is there a hard water version for the other 2?

Temps are 68-82F (20-28C).

The spurrs formula seems to do a great job (desertsquirrel is a master for sure) but uses some more products that are not available to me... I cant use it now... Thus the only formula left that i know is the useless... I'll try it and see!!
 
K

kushtrees

591
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water quality changes through the years, make sure you check again and you can always get water quality reports from your city.

looks like there is only flora micro hard water, prolly cuz thats where most of the ca is. if your using the hard water nutes and your water is no longer hard, that might be the bulk of you probs

if you use the lucas formula with the hard water micro make sure you check your ec, dont want you to burn the shit out of the ladies, id try their 3 part instructions personally. I know one dude who has been using gh 3 part longer than ive been growing with great results he has a ton of experience tho. best of luck with your girls

btw ive heard good things about hesi but ive never tried em, if you want to get an idea about what exactly your feeding you plants check out the canna stats nutrient calculator, itll help you get a better idea of what exactly your feeding
 
G

Gordon

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I'm going to have an ec meter from a friend the next days and see... meanwhile i am looking for one to buy... I've found a blue lab combo here but i want to check at the net for better price...

I'm not going to try any new nutes... I'll try to work the GH... Hope to make it!!!! If i don't i will buy a 2 part something... you know... growing for dummies! :D

lool... I've got my self in trouble.. everything was working so nice in my little closet! o_O now I'm reading feeding formulas, thinking of buying expensive ph/ec meters and even an RO filter :D
 
Batfink

Batfink

1
1
Just chiming in (and first post here). Exactly what kushtrees advises was my first thought. Sounds exactly like you are using the wrong hard/soft formula GH Micro. Really most of the problems you are describing point to this as the issue.

Do you know the PPM's of your water or can you obtain a water report from your suppliers website?
 

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