Nitrogen toxicity ,overfed in veg ?

[Prole63]

I have been having trouble with a current run and I think this is the problem:
found this info

The Claw"
The claw is caused by nitrogen toxicity. Nitrogen toxicity will damage/destroy a plants vascular system. Water uptake slows down from the vascular breakdown of the plants and leaves will take on a dryish look and feel, they will normally still stand up rather than droop but they will curl down like if you held your hand out and curled your fingers down.

Most times nitrogen toxicity begins in the vegetative growth stage. People will pour on the nutes, right up until they switch to flowering, and then change to flowering ferts. But the plants will not have used up the full amount of nitrogen fed to them while in veg and when the plants begin flowering and do not want or need as much nitrogen, even though less is then being fed to them, the combination of what has built up in the soil and what it being fed to them is too much resulting in vascular damage.

If people feed heavily during veg they need to back down on their ferts in the second half of veg and or flush before beginning flowering, especially if they are growing a more nute sensitive strain or the nitrogen buildup can become a problem.

So I believe that's what I got going on development was great til flower started to show then , well not right, mediocre at best.

I am in under current ,Running H&G .I was at 8-900 ppm in veg and now "the claw" look are the symptoms that best describe my current state. I am at 6 wk on a 10-11 wk strain. Currently down to 325 ppm and am about to do a change and run PH'd r/o water for a few days before doing anything. water chilled at 65 ,PH 5.7-6.3
Any suggestions anyone on best way to proceed? Thx for looking

 

[Innov8tr]

How do the roots look?

 

[Prole63]

a little under developed as well but not slimy or anything,maybe burnt them? PH slowly rises as ppm drop every couple days, been topping off with plain r/o ph'd to 5.9 and ppm has steadily dropped from about 550 after last change to 325 and some improvement in growth.

 

[Prole63]

About to do change with R/O and PH it and let it run for a few days before doing anything, hoping I can salvage a decent yield.

Should i flush until I see signs of hunger,(yellowing) or for 3-4 days?

Some tops look pretty good , some not, with clawed and twisted leafy buds, underdeveloped.

Should these be run out with just A/B nutes (1/4 to 1/3 dose) or should I use the Shooting Powder and 1/4 strength nutes (using H&G)?

Opinions wanted , at day 46 of 70-75

Thx

 

[Innov8tr]

How high is you water level? Also maybe consider something like drip clean to flush and I would run some zone and HF. The plants are stressed and this leaves the root zone open for attack...if its not already being attacked. I would lean more towards a root zone problem than over fert if you never got over 900.

Can you take a pic of the roots?

 

[Prole63]

Can't do pics at this time .

Water level just below netpot , using hydroton. What is the proper water level?

I Always use drip clean. my best plants have abundant healthy roots , on my more stunted plants(which are more sativa dom) they are somewhat skimpy and thin.

How would i identify root problems? What do i look for?

Using:
H&G
A/B
Drip Clean
Roots excel.
bud xl
protekt
R/O w/cal/mag to about 150ppm

 

[Innov8tr]

Your water level should be fine from what I've been told from CC

Well the roots look matted together and are usually brown, soft, and have a really strong earthy smell. Check out my thread "how I defeated pythium" there are some pics there. You can raise the water level for 24 hrs and dose at the highest dosage recommended. If you can buy pythoff locally dose it too at 1ml per gallon. You dose the pythoff daily for a few days and just dose the zone once between water changes. If it isn't pythium these measures will not hurt your plants at all and like I said, if they are stressed they open themselves up for problems. This sterilizes your roots and can effect the performance of your RE.

Also UCHQ might be the one to ask beyond this. My plants went through this early on but I also had some leaves that had yellow spots in them, I sterilized my system and they are 5' tall now.

 

[Prole63]

Thx for the answers
I have never gotten any yellowing of the leaves, spots,or any other discoloration. This is what has led me to the over nute conclusion , particularly N toxicity ,very green good growth in veg but slow flower development and clawed leaves and stunted growth.Mostly at the top of the buds. The leaves are dark green and plastic like hard at the top of the buds. i will check out your post on pythium and maybe it would be good to treat while I'm just running R/O for the next few days,whether I have it or not I could then rule that out.
I'll let you know what happens next .
Thx so much for checking out my thread .

 

[altitudefarmer]

I have been running H&G nutrients (full line) for about 6 weeks now. I'm no expert on the line, but I love it so far. The problem I believe with H&G and 'clawing' is that the nitrogen is immediately available, vs other nutrient lines whose nitrogen assimilates much more slowly. I have had to run at about 2/3 dose of what their feeding schedule suggests. For my N-sensitive strains, I have had to run part A at about 2/3 the dose of part B. I still get a little claw, but not enough to cause me concern.
The trichome production and overall health of the plants has been on point.
I still have not been able to pull severely clawed plants out of the clawing, even when I starved them. I'm not sure it's a reversible condition. Will do some research and holler back. Peace

 

[Innov8tr]

If you never had any yellowing or brown spots it may be N that is the problem. On one hand I wouldn't think so b/c you ppm's or so low but on the other hand H&G is known for having too much N in flower. Usually this makes them very leafy but with a N sensitive plant this could be the problem. Notice that H&G doesn't have a bloom formula in the US but they do outside the country, that sucks. I'm pretty sure that UCHQ is going to recommend ditching H&G like they did me. I used it through a couple of cycles and I had ph stability problems. I switched to GH for this run....straight 3 part, and my plants are in amazing health, this was after almost losing them to pythium. Good luck with them!

 

[Prole63]

Thx Inov8er , i drined system and filled with r/o ph to 5.4 and am gonna let it run, see what happens in a few days . I will post about progress.

 

[Bubblehaze]

800-900 is allot for a uc veg they probably just locked up I bet the r/o water run for 24 hours will help.(lowering to 325 don't help after the fact). Don't flush to long they are already not eating you may make it worse. Its real hard to give plants nitrogen toxicity from what I understand. Good Luck

 

[Prole63]

Drained and filled with 8 ppm r/o and ppm still shows 125 . Been about 72 hrs. They look better ,started a little growth a bunch of new stigmas. Gonna hit em with nutes today just about 2ml a/b per gal , get a reading and give it a day.Posted this in UC questions and problems thread and got their advice here's the link to see what they said:

 

[Prole63]

Ok , so I gave it 2ml/gal H&G with about 30%less A. It has steadily improved . That brought me to about 285PPM so added another ml/gal now at about 350PPM . So 3 days just r/o they started to drink topped off ,added nutes , waited a day, added a little more nutes , waited a couple days then hit with Bud xl 1/2 dose , Shooting Powder half strength. 2 days after shooting powder they are flowering at a pretty good pace. Seems to have got it going. I think we just had too much nutes. I guess go low and add slowly is the way to go.