Non Hydro Trees.

indogro · Apr 15, 2013

another question if I may....

I'm gonna start with a small run of trees (4) in 20 gal roots pots. soil/perlite mix, like Waayne.

I have 7 weeks till flip, and I aleady have some plants 4 weeks into veg, but I have been topping them back, so they are super short and stout. They each have about 6-8 leads currently. I don't have time to take more clones and veg them properly, so I was just going to not top these again and veg them for the next 7 weeks.

Since they have been topped a few times, they won't be "xmas" trees. Should I forsee any issues vegging these guys to bushes?

And do you guys super crop your trees? If so, how often and where on the plant?

cheers.

true grit · Apr 15, 2013

Think in your situation it all really depends on how much they stretch after flip...probably gonna be pretty huge in another 7wks.

GR33NL3AF · Apr 15, 2013

I hit 1.5 per plant with 5. As I said I have never scrog'd or dealt with this size plant before, I'm used to 14-18 inchers. I never did get shots of the plants while flowering but I did take some pics for you while clearing the room out yesterday.

Jalisco Kid · Apr 16, 2013

To get weight you need roots. Your roots should be so dense the container should be jammed pack so that they need to be cut to remove the root ball. People over water in the beginning, you need to make your roots go in search of.... JK
If you can water your container 4 weeks into flower and the water just flows right thru,your roots are not developed enough.

Theoneandonly Z · Apr 16, 2013

Jalisco Kid said:
To get weight you need roots. Your roots should be so dense the container should be jammed pack so that they need to be cut to remove the root ball. People over water in the beginning, you need to make your roots go in search of.... JK
If you can water your container 4 weeks into flower and the water just flows right thru,your roots are not developed enough.

JK is spot on. especially with fabric pots. ive learned this through trial. For instance, im using 1 gal root pots and they are 3' tall and bushy. never tried the 1 gals before, but they have surpassed my expectations and have given me a similar plant size as a 3 gal root pot. Less medium, less nutrient solution, less wasted space in my container = happy Z

DonJuanMatus · Apr 16, 2013

hey grit!

i run trees horizontally at 1 plant per light , in 18-20 gallon tubs of bulk rockwool on custom drip rings...the plants pictured were vegged for 82 days ..the largest one did just shy of 2.5 pounds, second to largest did 2.25 and the smallest in the room did just over 2 pounds

heres a shot of one at flip, this one came it at 2.25 lbs

this one did 2.5 lbs

DonJuanMatus · Apr 16, 2013

strain is Chemdog #4

DonJuanMatus · Apr 16, 2013

and as a reference those hoods are 48 inches across..plants were 6x6 feet at theyre widest points

Capulator · Apr 16, 2013

DonJuanMatus said:
hey grit!

i run trees horizontally at 1 plant per light , in 18-20 gallon tubs of bulk rockwool on custom drip rings...the plants pictured were vegged for 82 days ..the largest one did just shy of 2.5 pounds, second to largest did 2.25 and the smallest in the room did just over 2 pounds

heres a shot of one at flip, this one came it at 2.25 lbs

View attachment 306434

this one did 2.5 lbs

View attachment 306433

View attachment 306432

beautiful!

Jalisco Kid · Apr 17, 2013

Did you add a cage, those do not look like you had to tie them up very much? JK

true grit · Apr 17, 2013

JK- Ya for sure on pot size/roots. Thats why im thinking I'll be golden in 10-15g at most. Sometimes i didn't even fill up the 15g's.

DJM- Wow. Talk about bushes man! Thats the ticket right there, beautiful job. Ya looks like I need to start veggin the shit outta some bushes asap then.

green punk · Apr 17, 2013

I'm curious. Those claiming over a # per plant. How much is larf that ends up oil or edibles. Because some of the pics of these massive plants look to be 40 to 50% larf to me.

waayne · Apr 17, 2013

green punk said:
I'm curious. Those claiming over a # per plant. How much is larf that ends up oil or edibles. Because some of the pics of these massive plants look to be 40 to 50% larf to me.

greenpunk I run over 100 watts per sq.ft. of HPS in flower,and that bright flower room along with proper pruning really reduces the amount larf in my garden........
On average on a lb. plant I usually have about 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 0z's of larf

Here's a pic of a low branch of a White Star Dawg plant near harvest
Rock solid nugs all the way too the bottom with my vert /flat lighting set up
My larf tends to come from interior flowers ,not low branches......

Here's a pic of the entire plant

DonJuanMatus · Apr 17, 2013

jalisco - hey man, good eye..i used no cages on these, for support i do 2 things..first around day 7-10 of flower i drape a trellis over and around the plants and allow them to grow up and in to the trellis during stretch anchoring itself to the trellis..then around week 4 i drill 10-12 pinky size holes in the rim of each container, just big enough to fit a bamboo very tightly without fastening it to anything..i then go up and down the length of each bamboo and fasten as many branches as possible to each bamboo..i then tie support strings at different points of the trellis on each plant and ties those to the light posts above...doing both of these allows me to hold and and support large and small main branches with the bamboos aswell as hold up and support numerous colas around the plant with the trellis by only using a few support strings vs trying up every branch individually

some might think this is too much work and its better to use a cage..but i found that cages can constrict and alter the upward and outward growth of a plant during stretch in a negative way..this is why i stopped using cages as they never allowed the plant to grow outward naturally in the way i aim for...doing this although obviously much more work than a cage, allows me to support the entire plant without interfering with its upward and outward growth..its not for everyone or every garden and might even seem ghetto lol but i havent found a more efficient way to support trees without interfering with growth

here is a pic of right after i draped over the trellis

and a pic to hopefully illustrate what i was describing better..if you look closely you can see the bamboos in the rim of the container and the trellis buried in the canopy anchored to the support strings

DonJuanMatus · Apr 17, 2013

true grit - thanks man! give it a try , this can be done in other mediums aswell its just harder to dial..here is a pic of the same method applied to a smart pot of sunshine for with added lime...although the plants pictured were vegged 82 days or so it was in unfavorable conditions..when dialed the rockwool can be vegged around 10.5-11 week from rooted plug, while the sunshine was a solid 12 week veg...the shapping of the plant is just as important as the veg, if i didnt go hard with shaping them they would be 8 feet tall by week 12

DonJuanMatus · Apr 17, 2013

that is a 30 gal smart pot btw and the pic was taken the day it was moved into the flower room

and just a note i forgot to add for jalisco, i didnt have one broken or even splintered branch on any of the plants with those support methods, usually most methods give me atleast a few

this was also flowered in a room with no co2 or ac and minimal fresh air from an active outside intake..i live at 9000 feet in the mountains of colorado and its real cold most of the year so i used it to my advantage...one 8 inch fan window intake cooled 8kw with no exhaust...its not ideal and my point is with ac and co2 i would have done much better i think

DonJuanMatus · Apr 17, 2013

green punk - the numbers i mentioned were closely trimmed , dried and bagged wieght...i dont harvest larf off the plant with the colas..when i chop i take colas and leave behind the larf and any popcorn and it will get bubbles or oiled at a later date...if i counted every gram the numbers would be much higher

sky high · Apr 17, 2013

Much respect for the show DonJuan. Very nice.

Gotta love that cold/cool mountain air. I'm only @ 7250 but I can still run 6K in the Summer and keep it below 85F with no A/C. I can't even imagine having to run A/C. Holy fuck. Especially when i don't even have one/need one in my house. :D

Thanks for the inspiration. Rockwool cubes in containers is one approach I've never tried. When I had my hydro store they were new and I couldn't give em away. I ended up with a bag garbage bag full of 1" starter cubes I still have stored in the attic i should put to use.... :rolleyes: Always thought I'might use em in a guerilla grow outdoors...obviously...never did.

green punk · Apr 17, 2013

Sweet plants Wayne ! Your plant are most likely the exception though. Your shots you can see the stock some these other cats the pics are solid leaf beyond 3 to 5 "of the bud.

And DJM sick ass stuff. And thanks for the answer.

DonJuanMatus · Apr 17, 2013

sky high - hey man good to see an older member around! havent been on here in years..yeah when its sub below in the winter spending money on an ac and power to run it seemed silly..i also ran 6kw this last summer but anything over got way too hot in the morning before the lights went out

btw those werent grown in the grodan mini cubes or crutons..they are all grown in an old unrefined grodan product called "granulate absorbant" it holds more water than cut and refined wool and has the consistency of cotton candy...its comes in a 45 lb bale i get for 50 bucks and thats enough to run 2 tree/lights...with pot included my cost in materials per plant is around 35 dollars

thank you greenpunk

and nice tree wayne! i also found the same about inner larf, im starting to thin out the inside and shape the plants like a rainbow so there are only tops on the outside and treating the center of the plant like many would the underside of a flat topped canopy

Non Hydro Trees.

Non Hydro Trees.

indogro

true grit

GR33NL3AF

Jalisco Kid

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Theoneandonly Z

DonJuanMatus

DonJuanMatus

DonJuanMatus

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Jalisco Kid

Guest

true grit

green punk

waayne

DonJuanMatus

DonJuanMatus

DonJuanMatus

DonJuanMatus

sky high

green punk

DonJuanMatus

Non Hydro Trees.

Non Hydro Trees.

indogro

true grit

GR33NL3AF

Jalisco Kid

Guest

Theoneandonly Z

DonJuanMatus

DonJuanMatus

DonJuanMatus

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Jalisco Kid

Guest

true grit

green punk

waayne

DonJuanMatus

DonJuanMatus

DonJuanMatus

DonJuanMatus

sky high

green punk

DonJuanMatus

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