Nute burn turned to nute deficiency after adjustment?

[Livingstrategy]

A couple weeks after transplanting our 20 clones, they were looking really good/green and I decided to up the PPMs of the grow feed they were receiving. It seemed like they were experiencing potential nute lockout/nute burn shortly after the concentration was increased. I've been mixing less and less nutes since then, but the problem hasn't been working itself out. I'm trying to get this problem solved asap so that we can focus on transitioning into flower.



Some quick information:



Strain: Grandaddy Master Kush (GDP X MK)

Grow medium: Grodan Rockwool cubes + 2 plants in coco

Grow Food: Cutting Edge Grow, Botanicare cal/mag

Additives: Dutch Masters Gold Zone root zone conditioner, Great White Myco Powder (forgot exact name), Root Stimulant (again, forgot name, but main brand), Superthrive

Lights: 1K HPS, 600w HPS



Recently I've been doing approximately 300-400 PPMs of cutting edge's grow formula, 50-100 PPMs of cal-mag, and the water had 50 PPMs on average before mixing (old RO water filter, likely needs new filters).



I've been seeing signs of classic nute burn, twisting leaves (new growths especially on some of them), look of magnesium and calcium deficiency/lockout, stunted growth. I don't want to make this too long of a first post so I'll post some pics now and check back later.



Thanks a lot guys!!

 

[oldschooltofu]

check your roots for bugs

 

[purpleberry]

Cutting edge is a 3 part fert, you need Grow and Micro i think.

 

[freegrow]

Cutting edge is a 3 part fert, you need Grow and Micro i think.

yep you need micro got a mag. def and mabe an Iron def. dont need much of them but got to have them micro:sun

 

[Livingstrategy]

Don't you add micro in bloom? I didn't think you use micro during veg. I agree about the magnesium/poss calc deficiency, any ideas on what response I should be using to correct this for now?

 

[Cort]

+1 check for bugs

and I noticed you said nothing about PH. Are you checking it? check your run off as well.

 

[BrianDirt]

I agree check the PH and see were you are at, PH can cause lock out too. So you could of burned them and now the ph is off and they are locked out.

 

[freegrow]

Don't you add micro in bloom? I didn't think you use micro during veg. I agree about the magnesium/poss calc deficiency, any ideas on what response I should be using to correct this for now?

no you need micro all through the plants life

you should feed PH'ed 6 ml micro 9 ml bloom and 5ml cal/mag or 1 tsp. molasses or epsom salts 1 gram per gallon diluted to the PPM of choice PH to 5.8 to 6.0 then watch the girls for any added things needed

 

[Seamaiden]

You also have a burgeoning problem with phosphorous, as evidenced by the reddened petioles and the uneven necrosis on the leaves that don't show interveinal chlorosis.

 

[ronvmpc]

You also have a burgeoning problem with phosphorous, as evidenced by the reddened petioles and the uneven necrosis on the leaves that don't show interveinal chlorosis.

:confused0054: I love Seamaiden.

 

[Livingstrategy]

Thanks for all the help everyone! Really good comments/advice so far.

Seamaiden, you talk about a phosphorous problem that's developing as well. Anything I can do to help target that part of the problem and appropriately respond? In terms of pH, I've been pHing all feed at around 5.6-5.85. I will pH at around 5.8-5.9 for now to make sure that the plant can access the magnesium. I can pH the runoff as well. If the pH is too low or w/e on the runoff, I should try flushing the rockwool?

Thanks for your guys' support with this problem!! I'm committing to solving this problem =D

 

[Seamaiden]

I think that, specifically for coir, that pH range is a bit too tight. I suggest allowing it to range a little higher, up to 6.2. As for the rockwool, I've never handled or grown using rockwool (aquatic plants, but they're different) and so I can only go off what I've read about using it, which is that you need to feed at lower pH ranges, low-to-mid 5s, IIRC.

I cannot advise you well on how to make adjustments based on testing run-off. I prefer using a media test and I'm not sure how you'd perform a media test on rockwool.

However, looking back at your plants, I agree with the deficiency assessments (Ca + Mg), and suggest that another path to helping correct them lies in foliar applications of Ca and Mg. Go quarter strength on anything you try. Mg will green back up, Ca will not correct but if it's part of the problem then you *should* see progression of symptoms stop.

Once those elements are playing well together the rest of it should fall into place.

 

[Livingstrategy]

Ok, so now I finally realized that I'm supposed to be using bloom, micro, and grow all since the beginning. Now I ask you guys for suggestions on concentrations for feeding. How many ml/gal or PPM of each? This last feed I took someone's advice to do 5 ml/gal grow, 5 ml micro, 7 ml bloom, ~5 ml cal/mag, but I dont feel super confident with this which is why I'm trying to get other ideas on concentration levels.

Cutting edge grow
Micro
Bloom
Cal/mag

I really want to feel confident that I'm mixing the right amount of nutes here. Any suggestions/help will be greatly appreciated!!
:sun

 

[BrianDirt]

Remember Less is More ] , the bottle don't give you any idea how much to use? If no maybe try getting something else with the doseage on the bottle, or check thier web site.

I use a 7n-4p-10k veg nute and a 4n-8p-7k flower nute and they both contain all the micro and trace nutes too so I really only need the 2 bottles. As the plants get older and use to the nutes I can up the dose from 1 teaspoon to 3 but I start with half a teaspoon.

 

[lazarus718]

You also have a burgeoning problem with phosphorous, as evidenced by the reddened petioles and the uneven necrosis on the leaves that don't show interveinal chlorosis.

Dang, look at you Sherlock! I didn't even see any of that the first time I glanced at those pics, I wasn't going to comment since it's not a soil grow but I'd say Maiden got it. Go to your local gardening shop and buy some fish fertilizer with a high phosphorous content and foliar feed those girls.

 

[Livingstrategy]

I've tried twice to send a pic from my friend's phone to my email, but I'm having troubles receiving it for some reason. Since I started adding all 3 parts of the CES nutes, many of the plants are showing healthier new growths and signs of bouncing back, but there is still a problem with the leaves curling and crumpling on several of the plants. Two plants in particular have a bad case of these crumpled leaves and I'm not sure how I should be reacting/adjusting to this besides what I'm already doing. I tried foliar feeding some of the CES bloom (P) and some cal/mag the other day, but no real change yet.

I'm pretty sure all the plants will make it/be fine, but I'm not sure what to do about the two plants that have a pretty severe case of crumpled leaves. Any advice you guys can offer on this problem will help a lot. I'll try to get that picture/take more and post them soon. Thanks a lot for all the help!!!

 

[Livingstrategy]

Ok, I got pics of those two crumpled plants. I want to do everything I can to save them while I still can. They're definitely smaller than the rest of the pack as well, so I'm starting to question if I should mix a different concentration of nutrients to feed to them alone. They definitely suffered from before where I wasn't using any bloom/micro, so there is def micronutrient/phosphorus deficiencies going on. Most of the plants are starting to look better now that I'm using all 3 parts (Still trying to find the sweet spot PPM-wise), but these two are worsening. Any help/advice you guys could offer on these guys would be most appreciated. I don't want these guys to be left behind!!

 

[BrianDirt]

I would cut the plants about 8 inches up from bottom just above a node and then cut off all the other unhealthy maybe back to one or two nodes. Then just regrow them.

 

[Livingstrategy]

I would be down to do that, but the room as a whole can't stay in veg longer than another 2 weeks. We've been topping/delaying the bigger plants in an effort to get everyone up to speed, but some of the smaller plants (these ones especially) are still trying to bounce back to decent health. Like I said, I'd like to leave no one behind. I know that these guys are in pretty dire shape, but I'm thinking I can still save them to a certain degree. I hope you guys agree!

 

[freegrow]

yeald will be low on them but they will put out bud give them 6/9 and superthrive at 3 ml per gallon cut to 400 to 500 ppm and in 2 weeks if they dont come back or start to they wont good luck

one other note you got some heat issues with them too keep them as far from the light as you can till they do start to come back the reason the others dont have heat problems is sick or unhealty plants are more susceptible to enviromenal stresses so yeah move them back till they grow again ........get that superthrive if you dont have it

peace