nutrient defecientcy chart

[maxwell murder]

.. i saw it somewhere on this site, it showed early, mid and late def's on little pot leafs?
can anyone direct me?

 

[Natural]

 

[Seamaiden]

This one is better, it has Ca-. Ca is IMMOBILE, though, not mobile.

 

[cctt]

I do like that one better, but I find it hard to make use of any chart that only shows a fan leaf in isolation. A big part of identifying plant problems, to me, is seeing the issue in context. Where it is on the plant is important, and often other parts of the plant will give hints as to how to interpret the discoloration on the leaf.

Some of those I don't agree with, either. K+ shows between the veins in my experience, rather than at the tips. P- starts with purple petioles and later progresses to the veins.

 

[Seamaiden]

That's why I also use that flow chart, garnered from an ag or uni/edu site, because each is a tool that really needs to be used in concert.

I do agree that the K-/+ issues aren't fully depicted, I have observed it starting interveinally as you point out, but it quickly resembles what's depicted if it progresses. However, as an overall tool, like I said, I still use it to this day.

 

[TheTommyK]

ok ... I have seen this chart with deficiency charts as well ... I have just changed to HPS and am burning my ladies something sever!!!


wish I could upload pics .. but lately they all come up sideways .... but its like I am burning them ..... or the HPS are using at nute that my MH ( or I ...) were not used to ....

I adjusted them to more than 18" away (my MH would allow 5-8 inches with out burn)

 

[Chronic Monster]

any cool charts to post Sea?

 

[Seamaiden]

No cool charts, but Quantum9 posted a fascinating paper in a thread started by Capulator on light spectrum affecting nutrient uptake/utilization. I should have bookmarked that thread, now I can't even remember the title.

 

[TheTommyK]

first 2 weeks 400 MH, DNF gro ab. then when I change to the 600w HPS the leaves turn a faded lime green top to bottom. the tops burn and curl ..... I have the light now 18" away from the tops.

the plants to the outside of the light (further away ) fair better.

At the same time I also change to DNF gro ab and bloom fortifier at about 1200ppm, 6.0ph runoff, alternated with teas at about 800ppm heavy on molasses. same ph.

am I underfeeding? this never happened with the MH all the way through flowering.....

 

[CelticEBE]

No cool charts, but Quantum9 posted a fascinating paper in a thread started by Capulator on light spectrum affecting nutrient uptake/utilization. I should have bookmarked that thread, now I can't even remember the title.

This one Sea?

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/how-light-spectrum-affects-nutrient-use-in-plant-tissue.58621/

first 2 weeks 400 MH, DNF gro ab. then when I change to the 600w HPS the leaves turn a faded lime green top to bottom. the tops burn and curl ..... I have the light now 18" away from the tops.

the plants to the outside of the light (further away ) fair better.

At the same time I also change to DNF gro ab and bloom fortifier at about 1200ppm, 6.0ph runoff, alternated with teas at about 800ppm heavy on molasses. same ph.

am I underfeeding? this never happened with the MH all the way through flowering.....

What kind of reflector are you using? If I was 18" away from my plants with an adjust a wing they would be getting fried unless I had a LOT of cool air flowing over the top of them. Also....it sounds like 1200ppm is a bit strong in veg. I usually max out at 1100 right before they go into flower....and my plants are about 3' tall by then.

 

[TheTommyK]

It may be the height from the lights ..... I can get my HM within 5 inches .... and that's where I started with the HPS ... simple wing with an oscillating fan on them
I was originally looking for that one when I found this one (threads that is )

 

[Seamaiden]

Yes! That's the one, Celtic. :D

Tommy, there was another poster... HippyGuy or something like that? He's using an induction lighting system and having very similar problems. He ended up putting shadecloth over his girls to stop the burning.

 

[blackd0ve420]

What does this one look like to everyone? I have that book with the same chart and I suspect magnesium deficiency but wanted another opinion. Thanks for posting this!

 

[Funkstarfish]

agreed, what is that media? looks wet...

 

[blackd0ve420]

Sorry I forgot to post that I'm doing a hydro coco coir 100% grow in self watering pots, I just took that picture after I watered with ph adjusted water which is why it looks wet. Thanks for catching that.

 

[Seamaiden]

Ah, yep, that's classic progressing Mg-. One fix is to give foliar feeds of MgSO4 (aka Epsom salt) at the rate of 1/4tsp (1gm)/gal water+sticker-spreader. A soap like Ivory or Dr. Bronner's is good for a sticker-spreader, no detergents and nothing antimicrobial.

Another fix is to include that much MgSO4 in your feeds, or every other feed. Because Mg is mobile in plant tissues, it's an easy deficiency to correct. It's also very common in coir.

How are you addressing the plant's calcium needs?

Btw, I see signs of K+ (common in coir) and other signs of overfeeding. You may want to back off the other feed and give more Ca and Mg here.

 

[blackd0ve420]

I think you nailed it there. I already have been applying epsom salt in their feeding/watering (About a tablespoon per liter) about 4 +/- days ago. I'll try the foliar treatment as recommended by you thanks! Also after reviewing the list of nutrients necessary I noticed Ca a few days ago and sadly haven't addressed it. Is that also apparent? What would be the simplest way to supply ca to it? Also yes you're correct during the period of growth at around their 4th week I was trying to compensate by giving them more feeding but went too overboard with it. Now I'm about half of the recommended feeding for canna for now. Will focus on the ca/mg like you said and keep the N P K feeding at a lower amount for now (About half of what is recommended on bottle atm).

Edit: Are there any other necessary nutrients I would need like zinc? Iron? Just don't want to do the same thing I did to Ca.

 

[blackd0ve420]

I have gypsum and just realized it's calcium sulfate and has a neutral ph....considering one of my plants is in the extreme ends of sulfur deficiency the extra sulfur might be useful...does anyone happen to know how much calcium it releases though? I was thinking about adding a half a table spoon per liter....

 

[Chronic Monster]

sea recomended 1/4 teaspoon per gallon you doing 1tablespoon per liter seems over kill

I think you nailed it there. I already have been applying epsom salt in their feeding/watering (About a tablespoon per liter) about 4 +/- days ago. I'll try the foliar treatment as recommended by you thanks! Also after reviewing the list of nutrients necessary I noticed Ca a few days ago and sadly haven't addressed it. Is that also apparent? What would be the simplest way to supply ca to it? Also yes you're correct during the period of growth at around their 4th week I was trying to compensate by giving them more feeding but went too overboard with it. Now I'm about half of the recommended feeding for canna for now. Will focus on the ca/mg like you said and keep the N P K feeding at a lower amount for now (About half of what is recommended on bottle atm).

Edit: Are there any other necessary nutrients I would need like zinc? Iron? Just don't want to do the same thing I did to Ca.

 

[Seamaiden]

I think you nailed it there. I already have been applying epsom salt in their feeding/watering (About a tablespoon per liter) about 4 +/- days ago. I'll try the foliar treatment as recommended by you thanks! Also after reviewing the list of nutrients necessary I noticed Ca a few days ago and sadly haven't addressed it. Is that also apparent? What would be the simplest way to supply ca to it? Also yes you're correct during the period of growth at around their 4th week I was trying to compensate by giving them more feeding but went too overboard with it. Now I'm about half of the recommended feeding for canna for now. Will focus on the ca/mg like you said and keep the N P K feeding at a lower amount for now (About half of what is recommended on bottle atm).

Edit: Are there any other necessary nutrients I would need like zinc? Iron? Just don't want to do the same thing I did to Ca.

Holy shit! A full tablespoon per liter, not gallon, not teaspoon? Oh my goodness, you can back off of that, a whole lot. A WHOLE lot. All that Mg (there's also more sulfur in magnesium sulfate than magnesium) will block other minerals, it's antagonistic to them.

Gypsum will provide you some Ca and S, as you've sussed, I'd start mixing it with liquid feeds (keeping it in suspension might be a trick), and I'd start that at around 2t/gal. That's not a formula, it's just what 'feels' right to me. If someone comes along and says they would use it at a different rate and offers good reasons, then I would give that strong consideration.

The problem I'm having here is that I don't do the formula feeds and I'm terrible with math. But I think you're causing a lock-out situation where you have such an excess of one or more mineral nutrients that others are being essentially 'blocked'. Let me attach a mineral wheel chart for you here.