Nutrient deficiency or cannibalizing itself?

[wallywonks]

Hi all.

I usually lollipop lower half but this grow I left some lower main fan leaves on for the plant to use up.
They started week 6 of flower on last Sunday. They have very strong smell and pistils galore.

I've been feeding them every watering since week 2 of flower with Grow Big 5ml and 15ml of Alaskan Fish Fertilzer Morbloom 0-10-10

Last watering I just gave 3ml Calmag.
I water every 2 to 4 days depending on weight of pot and moisture meter readings. I pH the nutrient solution to 6.4 to 6.6. Environment is stable and spot on. Temps are 78F to 70F and humidity is 45% to 54%

The one leaf is grey blotch and some are yellowing in the center of the leaf finger.

I was thinking maybe Phosphorus deficiency and Nitrogen deficiency.

Is it too much nutes or not enough ir just natural leaf death? It's only doing this to the most lower leaves.

No signs of deficiency on the upper half or insects.


Thanks in advance

 

[mysticepipedon]

You might want to increase P and K now, but quite frankly, these plants look happy. Don't take drastic action because a few lower leaves are fading at week 6 of flower.

 

[PrimoClonesCanada]

If your big fan leaves are under your canopy not getting any good amount of light that tends to happen to me. I just think it doesn't have enough light like the rest of the plant and starts to show some deficiencies. If the rest of the plant looks great I would just leave it alone. To me it seems like your plants are doing very well and you only have around 3 weeks left anyways. So my advice would be to leave it and see if it stays below the canopy and doesnt progress to the top, then next time you have a better idea of what to do.

 

[Aqua Man]

Bigger older fans are not a concern they will continue to get worse and fall off. I suspect there was a watering issue at some point but all newe growth is looking good so i dont see a reason to do anything

 

[Bullmark69]

Bigger older fans are not a concern they will continue to get worse and fall off. I suspect there was a watering issue at some point but all newe growth is looking good so i dont see a reason to do anything

That’s nice to know b/c I was literally getting ready to post almost the exact same situation and question.
I’m growing 3 different strains (don’t ask why) In Coco (Fox Farms 70/30) and amended w/ dry organics. Tomorrow will be 4 weeks since I flipped to 12/12 and I top dressed after week 2 of flip.
I also lollipopped but left some big outer and lower fans.
The grow has been too perfect….rapid growth w/ no issues whatsoever. Then in the last few days I found one big lower fan that is textbook N deficiency…but I’m no expert.
Then On a different plant I found a few small dark blotches on 2 lower fans.
So I’m guessing it’s not a big deal as long as the new growth is healthy and the buds are stacking up, which seems to be the case.
My goal is always to keep the plant as green as possible until the very end…..but I don’t want to go chasing a problem that really doesn’t exist. So I’ll keep on with the same routine.
Thanks for the input.

 

[Aqua Man]

That’s nice to know b/c I was literally getting ready to post almost the exact same situation and question.
I’m growing 3 different strains (don’t ask why) In Coco (Fox Farms 70/30) and amended w/ dry organics. Tomorrow will be 4 weeks since I flipped to 12/12 and I top dressed after week 2 of flip.
I also lollipopped but left some big outer and lower fans.
The grow has been too perfect….rapid growth w/ no issues whatsoever. Then in the last few days I found one big lower fan that is textbook N deficiency…but I’m no expert.
Then On a different plant I found a few small dark blotches on 2 lower fans.
So I’m guessing it’s not a big deal as long as the new growth is healthy and the buds are stacking up, which seems to be the case.
My goal is always to keep the plant as green as possible until the very end…..but I don’t want to go chasing a problem that really doesn’t exist. So I’ll keep on with the same routine.
Thanks for the input.

Yeah your plants look great. A plant will naturally start shedding older less efficient leaves around 60 days forward. It will starting pulling mobile nutrients from them before just dropping them when no longer a benefit.

It can absolutely be an indication that something is a miss… but given the age of your plants and location of the affected leaves i would say this is 100% normal and to be expected

 

[Bullmark69]

Yeah your plants look great. A plant will naturally start shedding older less efficient leaves around 60 days forward. It will starting pulling mobile nutrients from them before just dropping them when no longer a benefit.

It can absolutely be an indication that something is a miss… but given the age of your plants and location of the affected leaves i would say this is 100% normal and to be expected

Thanks….and while I have your attention, can I ask about one more thing?
I’ve noticed in the last week or two that some of the white pistils are turning brown prematurely.
There’s no pattern as it is happening with buds closest to the light and lower ones as well. It’s also happening on all three plants, which are 3 different strains (Jack Herer, Gelato OG, and Amnesia).
It’s probably occurring on 10% of the buds.
I have done a lot of leaf tucking and super cropped 4-5 tops on one plant. So there has been some brushing up against the pistils…by me accidentally and through the leaf tucking. I also keep the 3 plants fairly close together to gather more light, so they do jostle around and bump one another.
I read where the early dark pistils could be caused by light or heat intensity, brushing against it, or stress in general. But the alarming part said it was sometimes it is an indicator that the plant would hermi….
Clearly that would be a nightmare. I keep my temps and RH in check but a few days recently it has gotten to 84-86F.
I am running a HLG 320 r-spec, keeping the plants rotated and 16-18” from the light to the canopy.
I’d love to know what’s causing it. I can’t imagine 3 plants, all different strains, would all hermi….but I guess it’s possible.
What’s your take on the early dark pistils??

 

[Aqua Man]

Thanks….and while I have your attention, can I ask about one more thing?
I’ve noticed in the last week or two that some of the white pistils are turning brown prematurely.
There’s no pattern as it is happening with buds closest to the light and lower ones as well. It’s also happening on all three plants, which are 3 different strains (Jack Herer, Gelato OG, and Amnesia).
It’s probably occurring on 10% of the buds.
I have done a lot of leaf tucking and super cropped 4-5 tops on one plant. So there has been some brushing up against the pistils…by me accidentally and through the leaf tucking. I also keep the 3 plants fairly close together to gather more light, so they do jostle around and bump one another.
I read where the early dark pistils could be caused by light or heat intensity, brushing against it, or stress in general. But the alarming part said it was sometimes it is an indicator that the plant would hermi….
Clearly that would be a nightmare. I keep my temps and RH in check but a few days recently it has gotten to 84-86F.
I am running a HLG 320 r-spec, keeping the plants rotated and 16-18” from the light to the canopy.
I’d love to know what’s causing it. I can’t imagine 3 plants, all different strains, would all hermi….but I guess it’s possible.
What’s your take on the early dark pistils?? View attachment 1269786View attachment 1269787

Your exactly right… reaching over we sometimes brush them or just cant do the whole no touchy touchy thing lol.

Wind, heat, to much light cause this.

Id say heat/light is the most likely from what you describe.

Possibly wind if you have fans blowing pretty hard on the tops.

I dont think they are pollinated which is what herms do to cause that.

 

[Aqua Man]

Also just for info some strains will orange up and throw new white pistils a few times over flowering .


But i think here its light or heat.

 

[PotsieSativa]

No signs of deficiency up top? Then what do you call those clawed blue leaves with hotdog colored petioles?

Injured leaves have diminished life span. Look at your upper leaves. They are loaded with simple sugars that are not relocating or metabolizing. Sucrose seems to be the signaling mechanism. Cannabis leaves should be flat and green, not 3 dimensional and blue. Too much calnit, not enough phosphorus boron, potassium etc. Once your leaves turn blue and curly they only have a few weeks before they shutdown.

I guess alot of growers are colorblind. Looking upwards at the bottom of your leaves, towards the light; that's green. Looking from the top down, that's blue. This is a indicative of permanent tissue damage to the plant.

 

[Bullmark69]

No signs of deficiency up top? Then what do you call those clawed blue leaves with hotdog colored petioles?

Injured leaves have diminished life span. Look at your upper leaves. They are loaded with simple sugars that are not relocating or metabolizing. Sucrose seems to be the signaling mechanism. Cannabis leaves should be flat and green, not 3 dimensional and blue. Too much calnit, not enough phosphorus boron, potassium etc. Once your leaves turn blue and curly they only have a few weeks before they shutdown.

I guess alot of growers are colorblind. Looking upwards at the bottom of your leaves, towards the light; that's green. Looking from the top down, that's blue. This is a indicative of permanent tissue damage to the plant.

U are correct about me being colorblind…..I need to read through through your observations again and digest. Don’t be surprised if I don’t completely understand…..I’m a little thick sometimes.
What would you suggest I do? Help me get squared away…

 

[Bullmark69]

No signs of deficiency up top? Then what do you call those clawed blue leaves with hotdog colored petioles?

Injured leaves have diminished life span. Look at your upper leaves. They are loaded with simple sugars that are not relocating or metabolizing. Sucrose seems to be the signaling mechanism. Cannabis leaves should be flat and green, not 3 dimensional and blue. Too much calnit, not enough phosphorus boron, potassium etc. Once your leaves turn blue and curly they only have a few weeks before they shutdown.

I guess alot of growers are colorblind. Looking upwards at the bottom of your leaves, towards the light; that's green. Looking from the top down, that's blue. This is a indicative of permanent tissue damage to the plant.

Pardon me for not being in total agreement with your observations. Growing is a hobby for me and I get a real charge out of handing out goody bags for a few of my friends. The goal is to learn more on each grow and have the results show it.
That said, I’m not planning on competing in the Cannabis Cup or cultivate for a living. So I really try to not sweat the small stuff.
I’m sure you know a lot more than myself about the plant and how it grows. If you see deficiencies then I 100% believe you…..where we probably disagree is the degree of the problem(s) and where it will lead.
I’m not the best at seeing color but I am not diagnosed as color blind. I do see some darker green that you may see as blue. One of the 3 plants is noticeably a shade or two darker than the others…I chalked it up to possibly a bit too much N or just genetics.
As for the purple or hot dog colored petioles, i noticed that only the top of the petiole is purple, with the underside being the normal green. I figured this was from my LED light. But maybe I’m wrong.??
As for the clawing, I’ll agree that the leaves aren’t totally flat, but I just don’t see what I describe as clawing. I did recently turn the light up to full intensity and maybe that caused the margins to curl slightly…..I dunno.
I’d really appreciate it if you would weigh in on the darkened pistils so early into flowering. That’s what gives me the most cause for concern.
I just can’t get too upset over the way things look as a whole….I seriously doubt my leaves are on their last leg and are gonna shrivel up and fall off in the next two weeks….but hey it’s my loss if they do.
Thanks for the help

 

[wallywonks]

No signs of deficiency up top? Then what do you call those clawed blue leaves with hotdog colored petioles?

Injured leaves have diminished life span. Look at your upper leaves. They are loaded with simple sugars that are not relocating or metabolizing. Sucrose seems to be the signaling mechanism. Cannabis leaves should be flat and green, not 3 dimensional and blue. Too much calnit, not enough phosphorus boron, potassium etc. Once your leaves turn blue and curly they only have a few weeks before they shutdown.

I guess alot of growers are colorblind. Looking upwards at the bottom of your leaves, towards the light; that's green. Looking from the top down, that's blue. This is a indicative of permanent tissue damage to the plant.

The clawing is from the fans blowing on them. The red stems and petioles are natural protection from the LED light. This is verifiable by looking under the leaf as the upper half of stem is reddish and under is green

 

[wallywonks]

No signs of deficiency up top? Then what do you call those clawed blue leaves with hotdog colored petioles?

Injured leaves have diminished life span. Look at your upper leaves. They are loaded with simple sugars that are not relocating or metabolizing. Sucrose seems to be the signaling mechanism. Cannabis leaves should be flat and green, not 3 dimensional and blue. Too much calnit, not enough phosphorus boron, potassium etc. Once your leaves turn blue and curly they only have a few weeks before they shutdown.

I guess alot of growers are colorblind. Looking upwards at the bottom of your leaves, towards the light; that's green. Looking from the top down, that's blue. This is a indicative of permanent tissue damage to the plant.

Pics of them not under the LEDs

 

[Sunasun]

Pardon me for not being in total agreement with your observations. Growing is a hobby for me and I get a real charge out of handing out goody bags for a few of my friends. The goal is to learn more on each grow and have the results show it.
That said, I’m not planning on competing in the Cannabis Cup or cultivate for a living. So I really try to not sweat the small stuff.
I’m sure you know a lot more than myself about the plant and how it grows. If you see deficiencies then I 100% believe you…..where we probably disagree is the degree of the problem(s) and where it will lead.
I’m not the best at seeing color but I am not diagnosed as color blind. I do see some darker green that you may see as blue. One of the 3 plants is noticeably a shade or two darker than the others…I chalked it up to possibly a bit too much N or just genetics.
As for the purple or hot dog colored petioles, i noticed that only the top of the petiole is purple, with the underside being the normal green. I figured this was from my LED light. But maybe I’m wrong.??
As for the clawing, I’ll agree that the leaves aren’t totally flat, but I just don’t see what I describe as clawing. I did recently turn the light up to full intensity and maybe that caused the margins to curl slightly…..I dunno.
I’d really appreciate it if you would weigh in on the darkened pistils so early into flowering. That’s what gives me the most cause for concern.
I just can’t get too upset over the way things look as a whole….I seriously doubt my leaves are on their last leg and are gonna shrivel up and fall off in the next two weeks….but hey it’s my loss if they do.
Thanks for the help

I'm sorry for laughing at your post, for it probably seems rude to you. But, why would you increase your light intensity when your plants are already screaming at you that they are light stressed?
Good luck.