Nutrient lock-out or Environment issues?

Russell4313 · Apr 6, 2022

Hey everyone! Been coming here to th forum while now but this is my first time actually posting anything and need some of y’all’s opinions.

I am day 15(week3) of veg and I am getting some canoeing in some leaves as well as some discoloration and burn spots. i am running 6 Luxx 645 led pros that are about 6’8” from canopy at 45%. Room temp stays on average 73 degrees, room humidity average 69%, c02 average 700,
With vpd readings from .81-1.08.
running Athena nutes on a feed flush schedule, ph’d to 6.0. 3 gallon pots fill with cloud coir.

Tested run off after deciding to flush for a second time in a row in worry I was over fed and tested run off and got a ph reading of 5.9 and 1440ppm which seems pretty high for this stage of growth.

i would also like to note that I have ran a similar schedule with a different strain in a different room but this is a brand new room brand new strain to me and I also fear that I may have jumped the feeding chart a little to quick vs how I have in the past. All advice is very much appreciated!!!

mysticepipedon · Apr 6, 2022

The first and fourth pic look like classic Mg deficiency or lockout symptoms, along with the canoeing. Leaves with these symptoms can easily get burned, like the dead spots on the leaf in the first pic. It doesn't seem like you should be seeing heat issues. I don't know what you can do to stop the canoeing.

What's the shiny stuff? did you spray it?

Pushrod Monkey · Apr 6, 2022

Your temperature is far too low and humidity too high.

Russell4313 · Apr 6, 2022

mysticepipedon said:
The first and fourth pic look like classic Mg deficiency or lockout symptoms, along with the canoeing. Leaves with these symptoms can easily get burned, like the dead spots on the leaf in the first pic. It doesn't seem like you should be seeing heat issues. I don't know what you can do to stop the canoeing.

What's the shiny stuff? did you spray it?

Ya shiny stuff is from spray. Used h16 in the first 2 weeks and just started up with the stack and ipm spray. I also have a couple of other pm and insect sprays I like to rotate in and out with each other.

Russell4313 · Apr 6, 2022

Pushrod Monkey said:
Your temperature is far too low and humidity too high.

Temp is a little lower than what I normally like and this is my first room using the troll master setup but when dialing the room according to thr vpd’s for veg state this is where I found the best balance. Could too cold of a room cause canoeing of the leaves like this?

Moshmen · Apr 6, 2022

Russell4313 said:
Temp is a little lower than what I normally like and this is my first room using the troll master setup but when dialing the room according to thr vpd’s for veg state this is where I found the best balance. Could too cold of a room cause canoeing of the leaves like this?

More likely Humidy in my opinion but let’s hear from pushrod

2Bad · Apr 6, 2022

Russell4313 said:
Temp is a little lower than what I normally like and this is my first room using the troll master setup but when dialing the room according to thr vpd’s for veg state this is where I found the best balance. Could too cold of a room cause canoeing of the leaves like this?

Too low of humidity causes canoeing because the vpd is off.. so im assuming too high of humidity causing the vpd to be off would be the same result. How often are you feeding?

Russell4313 · Apr 6, 2022

2Bad said:
Too low of humidity causes canoeing because the vpd is off.. so im assuming too high of humidity causing the vpd to be off would be the same result. How often are you feeding?

Im feeding twice a day, waiting a day than flushing, and repeating that same process. I have had great results with this schedule but again this is a different strain so It could hate it , I’m not sure

2Bad · Apr 6, 2022

Has it been low humidity recently before the setup of the room?

Russell4313 · Apr 6, 2022

2Bad said:
Has it been low humidity recently before the setup of the room?

I’ve usually ran my other rooms at about 60-65rh and 76-78 degrees but as I had mentioned in one of my other comments, this was my first room using the troll masters brain and setting up the room based off of balancing the vpd’s between the recommended .8-1.1 so once I found a happy medium I figured that since my brain was showing a good balance in between that I was confident in the environment but after reading a few peoples comments about temp and and humidity it’s making me wonder if I should pay attention to what the vpd say on my brain or just run the room at what I know has seem to work better. By doin this though it will through my vpd’s off so I’m just a little confused

Choppr · Apr 6, 2022

Do You have Pest pressure?, if not stop Sprying Poison on the Leaves - citric acids/poisons will dry out the leaves and the residue/heat can cause the leaves to taco - I dont understand the flush between the feeds - mix a corrective nutrient solution for veg and water at lights on - the flush between will leech out nutrient(calcium and magnesium) and not neccesary. (deficient/vpd)

Russell4313 · Apr 6, 2022

Choppr said:
Do You have Pest pressure?, if not stop Sprying Poison on the Leaves - citric acids/poisons will dry out the leaves and the residue/heat can cause the leaves to taco - I dont understand the flush between the feeds - mix a corrective nutrient solution for veg and water at lights on - the flush between will leech out nutrient(calcium and magnesium) and not neccesary. (deficient/vpd)

No pest or pm issues just was taught with a preventive spray measure kind of mind set and has always worked for my grows. Also the feed flush is also something I was taught and have also known others to do as well.(not the only or probly not the best way) but again I’ve had good success this way so it is hard to stray from it.

2Bad · Apr 6, 2022

I do calmag water/nutes/calmag water/nutes and my plants love it. But honestly cannabis will thrive no matter what you do to it. As long as the environment is on and you don't over/under water.

Russell4313 · Apr 6, 2022

2Bad said:
I do calmag water/nutes/calmag water/nutes and my plants love it. But honestly cannabis will thrive no matter what you do to it. As long as the environment is on and you don't over/under water.

Running Athena nutrients is there a certain brand cal/mag I should be using or will any cal/mag brand of my choosing be okay? I do feel that I have leaned more toward a cal/mag deficiency as far as the coloring and spots on the leaves but as for the canoeing of them, that told me that the plant is uncomfortable for some reason and focused on it being a heat related issue and not realizing that humidity could cause it as well. I did feel that my run off reading 1440 ppm this early in veg was a little high or is that just me?

2Bad · Apr 6, 2022

Well typically high EC shouldn't be an issue unless it becomes one. I've seen people feeding 1200ppm with 2500ppm runoff and that plant looked perfect.. So idk as for calmag anything should work .

Moshmen · Apr 6, 2022

Choppr said:
Do You have Pest pressure?, if not stop Sprying Poison on the Leaves - citric acids/poisons will dry out the leaves and the residue/heat can cause the leaves to taco - I dont understand the flush between the feeds - mix a corrective nutrient solution for veg and water at lights on - the flush between will leech out nutrient(calcium and magnesium) and not neccesary. (deficient/vpd)

+1 - I agree with a ipm preventive but spraying leaves anytime is a last resort for me anyways

Russell4313 · Apr 6, 2022

2Bad said:
Well typically high EC shouldn't be an issue unless it becomes one. I've seen people feeding 1200ppm with 2500ppm runoff and that plant looked perfect.. So idk as for calmag anything should work .

Okay that’s a lot more comforting to know honestly because I definitely like to push my plants a little and didn’t feel like I was pushing them to hard especially knowing that I’m new to the strain and also I don’t have burnt tips everywhere indicating I was starting to give to much nutes but the leaf canoeing and the spots through me off and didn’t think about adding cal/mag in with my line because of the fact that I haven’t had to with other strains assuming Athena had a really nice balance of everything your plant needed. I’ve only got a few years under my belt so I’m definitely still learning and have to keep a more open mind from strain to strain.

Russell4313 · Apr 6, 2022

Moshmen said:
+1 - I agree with a ipm preventive but spraying leaves anytime is a last resort for me anyways

When doing your preventive spray do you just spray the premises of the room, tables, and base of pots to avoid spraying the actual plant?

Choppr · Apr 6, 2022

pests,viruses,molds etc are attracted to weakened rotting dying bio(usually),sometimes they will come in bag soils, or on a cut - an IPM prevatine plan would as @Russell4313, @Moshmen make sense on all surfaces except plant biomass - only use on plant bio if u know u have pests - its April, pest pressures are higher during hot months(outside), this is why during hot months we plant our rows wider outside(plants at 16-18" apart), plants can be tighter together 1st part of spring/summer (12-14" apart) I have done field scale cannabis and indoor grows, indoor if a room is kept clean I would never add a variable that can and will cause problems, it is also a variable you can stop now and see if thats your problem. I dont use any IPM indoor, my rooms are clean and I dont introduce unknown bio. (cuts are quarantined and dipped) good luck M8

Russell4313 · Apr 6, 2022

Choppr said:
pests,viruses,molds etc are attracted to weakened rotting dying bio(usually),sometimes they will come in bag soils, or on a cut - an IPM prevatine plan would as @Russell4313, @Moshmen make sense on all surfaces except plant biomass - only use on plant bio if u know u have pests - its April, pest pressures are higher during hot months(outside), this is why during hot months we plant our rows wider outside(plants at 16-18" apart), plants can be tighter together 1st part of spring/summer (12-14" apart) I have done field scale cannabis and indoor grows, indoor if a room is kept clean I would never add a variable that can and will cause problems, it is also a variable you can stop now and see if thats your problem. I dont use any IPM indoor, my rooms are clean and I dont introduce unknown bio. (cuts are quarantined) good luck M8

Thank you so much for the break down! I really appreciate it and definitely have a new look on the preventive measures I have been taught. I also wasn’t aware that the residue and heat from lights can cause the canoeing and I do see how that could easily play a roll and is totally worth seeing if stopping will make a difference

Nutrient lock-out or Environment issues?

Nutrient lock-out or Environment issues?

Russell4313

mysticepipedon

Pushrod Monkey

Russell4313

Russell4313

Moshmen

2Bad

Russell4313

2Bad

Russell4313

Choppr

Russell4313

2Bad

Russell4313

2Bad

Moshmen

Russell4313

Russell4313

Choppr

Russell4313

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency